How to be holy with someone who is critical and mean

[Harmony]

I know, I wasn’t trying to make an excuse for not doing it. It just is not something I think of with her.

 

[MNathaniel]

MNathaniel:

Any chance your Mom comes from a broken home too?

Wow, she does! And it was when divorce was rare, like with your mother too.

Interesting!

Yeah, I think there may really be something to this. It’s amazing how it took me so many years to even recognize that my Mom may have been long-term impacted by her parents’ divorce.

One note: I’ve never actually talked to her about the ‘broken home’ aspect, and she’s never self-identified as having issues rooted from it. I don’t know if she’d even be able to identify or articulate its impact on her (since it’s the only childhood she knew; the water she swam in), so I’d suggest being careful not to imagine your own mom will necessarily be able to identify her parents’ divorce as impacting her later behaviour. More just maybe something to keep in mind, in your own mind, as you feel out what your mom’s wounds and needs may be. That the experience of coming from a broken home is part of what has formed her as a person (possibly on a deep, psychological level); our parents have such an impact on us, and even when we’re conscious of it, that impact can be so hard to fight; if we’re not even conscious of it… well, that’s even harder.

One weird thing that occurs to me to mention… one of my mother’s sisters (my aunt) once articulated, out loud, a reason for her own (my aunt’s own) frequent harsh words and critical-ness to loved ones… She said she wants to be loved “in spite of herself”, for someone to see her at her worst and nastiest and still love her and hug her and want to be affectionate to her. And (however dysfunctional an approach this is), for her this seems to translate into consciously allowing herself to be biting to the people around her, because she gets her reassurance of their love from the fact that they don’t leave in these moments.

From the sounds of it, the implication is that she’s secretly always afraid that people will leave her, or that they don’t really love her, and ‘being mean’ is the button she presses to reassure herself of the opposite. As unfair as this is on others and as much strain as this puts on others.

So again, I wonder if this kind of ‘meanness’ is rooted, at least partially, in abandonment issues from their father leaving their mother, and themselves, when they were a child. I’m not a psychologist so I don’t want to make amateur assessments too far down the rabbit hole… and I reckon later life experiences also significantly shape the specific forms these issues manifest themselves in, so attention needs to be paid to the impacts of later life experiences too (e.g. my Mom’s particular behaviours were also impacted by the way my Dad treated her)… but the fact that my Mom and her sisters all share a certain negativity, and your Mom’s the same, and they have the broken-home-background in common…

I just think there’s something there. It’s a piece of the puzzle. Though maybe it’d take a proper counsellor to help untangle that web.

Just important for us to remember: Before our mothers were mothers, they were daughters.

 

[MNathaniel]

Harmony:

So I help care for my mother, and she is soooooo critical. And sometimes even mean.

I could have written that about my wife so I am hoping for some good answers to help me too.

I’m sorry to hear about your situation. One of my aunts is like this to her husband, and while your wife’s issues may be different from hers (e.g. I think my aunt may be partially impacted by abandonment issues, her father leaving her mother when she was young – and your wife may not share that background), for whatever it’s worth here’s one reason my aunt once gave for her own behaviour. (Quoted bit from when I first said this to the OP):

One weird thing that occurs to me to mention… one of my mother’s sisters (my aunt) once articulated, out loud, a reason for her own (my aunt’s own) frequent harsh words and critical-ness to loved ones… She said she wants to be loved “in spite of herself”, for someone to see her at her worst and nastiest and still love her and hug her and want to be affectionate to her. And (however dysfunctional an approach this is), for her this seems to translate into consciously allowing herself to be biting to the people around her, because she gets her reassurance of their love from the fact that they don’t leave in these moments.

From the sounds of it, the implication is that she’s secretly always afraid that people will leave her, or that they don’t really love her, and ‘being mean’ is the button she presses to reassure herself of the opposite. As unfair as this is on others and as much strain as this puts on others.

When I think of this I feel sad for everyone involved, and think of a Mumford & Sons song: ‘Sister’. Lyrics include:

There’s a chip on your shoulder girl
And by God it’ll make you fall
If you let it take a part of your soul

I’ve seen the love in your brother’s eyes
And the love in your mother’s cries
Sister don’t test the ones you love

Sister don’t let go
Sister don’t let go of us

Cause your roots will rot away
And your fruit, it won’t grow
Your bark will wear thin, body hollow

Don’t test the ones you love
It’ll only tear us down
If you want to feel alive
Then learn to love your ground

At least for my aunt, this seems to be one of the roots of her meanness. ‘Testing’ the ones she loves, to feel reassured in their love. As to how to help untangle that or cope with that… that’ll all be situational, and depend on whether the person is willing to acknowledge their meanness as a problem and work to be kinder. But at least for me, I find understanding (to some degree) helps. At least to step back and see their meanness as part of ‘their wound’, and something to pity more than to feel wounded by myself.

And hopefully, if the diagnosis is accurate, maybe that’ll help us find healthier alternative ways to get the person’s need met, which may help them gradually feel the need to use the unhealthy way less.

 

[Harmony]

I’ve never actually talked to her about the ‘broken home’ aspect, and she’s never self-identified as having issues rooted from it.

Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you!

One weird thing that occurs to me to mention… one of my mother’s sisters (my aunt) once articulated, out loud, a reason for her own (my aunt’s own) frequent harsh words and critical-ness to loved ones… She said she wants to be loved “in spite of herself”, for someone to see her at her worst and nastiest and still love her and hug her and want to be affectionate to her

Wow, talk about counter-productive! But this really made me think, like my mom gets all crazy and then afterwards she actually seems kind of cheerful.

Before our mothers were mothers, they were daughters.

Yeah, I understood she had family problems and that is probably why I can do this at all.

It’s funny how things change: when I was little my mother seemed so in control and competent. Then when I had to deal with those same things, I felt real incompetent, like with a car breaking down? But now that I am even older, I think my mother probably felt just as freaked out about a car full of kids breaking down as I did.

So I feel like I understand her in some ways, like now there’s stuff she can’t do and she probably never imagined that and yet now here she is. You just keep feeling so much like yourself and not like what you look like on the outside.

 

[MNathaniel]

God bless you for the work you’re doing to try to love your mother well, @Harmony.



PS I just wanted to reaffirm you in something you suggested doing, but I hadn’t affirmed in my previous post:

I thought a lot about your post. At first I thought, my mother never shows a vulnerable side, but then I thought… like, I could ask her. Like if she mentions something about when she was young, I could say something like it must have been really hard for her, even tho that is not where she is going with that.

I think this is a great idea. Whether your mom gets talking on the topic of her childhood, or marriage, or something else… finding something to sympathize with her about, sounds good. Like a way to help her feel heard and understood. To be told her feelings are valid (even if the way she’s expressing her feelings isn’t valid, and even if, for example, choosing to dwell on certain feelings may not be valid… the initial feeling in a circumstance may well be valid and understandable, and it may help her just to hear someone affirm that). Perhaps sometimes the people who show the most unjust harshness are those who most feel that others have been unjust/harsh to them. And receiving merciful, gentle love and sympathy, may help them see a different way they could respond to others. Or at least feel less pent-up anger and the desire to lash it out at others.

Anyway again, I’m no psychologist.

Just wanted to affirm that I think you had a good idea, about taking time to listen to your mom’s feelings and empathize with her about things that have been hard for her. That might take things in a previously untraveled direction.

 

[Harmony]

Thank you for all your supportive help! I feel like you set me on a better path, even if it doesn’t help my mother, it helps me.

If that makes sense…

 

[Legend]

OP,
It probably is difficult to get help from priests during this pandemic. But, in your first post, you cited, as a positive example, a Saint you hadn’t even researched.

Yes, the saints are a great example. But, did you ever think of ordinary, moral people, and how they deal with problems like yours? Many saints did not live in modern times. While for some it is a good thing, for others it can skewer things.

For example, St. Monica is often cited, on these forums, by and for abused women. The fact that she stayed with her husband is proof that these women should never leave their husbands. What many people fail to note is that when St. Monica lived, women were considered property. Her husband could by law, force her to stay with him. If she did manage to get away, he could keep her children away from her, as they were property too. Monica was a holy woman who made the best of the times she was living in!

So, before citing saints as examples, shouldn’t you at least research them? Also, you are aiming kind of high, for a rather common situation. Many people have had to take care of aging parents, who are disagreeable. Please, don’t hold yourself up to the most difficult situation, the most holy Saint, etc. Many ordinary people are going thru the same thing. Try to give them some credit, and look at their examples.

I hope what I wrote makes sense to you. You are going thru a difficult time. Take care, and God Bless!

 

[Elf01]

For example, St. Monica is often cited, on these forums, by and for abused women. The fact that she stayed with her husband is proof that these women should never leave their husbands. What many people fail to note is that when St. Monica lived, women were considered property. Her husband could by law, force her to stay with him. If she did manage to get away, he could keep her children away from her, as they were property too. Monica was a holy woman who made the best of the times she was living in!

I’d love to have an example of a Saint who left an abusive spouse.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’d love to have an example of a Saint who left an abusive spouse.

St. Fabiola of Rome did.

Unfortunately, she then messed up by marrying a second time after she’d divorced the abusive guy. The second guy eventually died and she did public penance for her sin in remarrying (the sin was not in divorcing the abusive guy but in remarrying). Then she gave away all her money and dedicated the rest of her life to serving the poor under the spiritual direction of St. Jerome.

 

[Harmony]

I didn’t really look at this like you did. For one thing, I thought this person was like a legend because it was one of those stories you read about that are not like stories about saints where they say St Someone did this and that. It was more like that guy in a flood on the roof.

And also I like keep that in mind because sometimes I do want to leave. Yeah, I know there are other people like me who are going through all this but there are also other people like me who say forget this! and leave.

So when I keep a saint in my mind I do it more to keep the idea of doing something in a holy way and not because I think that I’m so great that I need someone who is a saint to be who I think about. And you never really know about people in real life.

 

[Norseman82]

This kind of gets to my exact problem. Like standing up to anything is a problem because it seems like it is bad. Well, I used to have a real bad temper, so I have a hard time kind of figuring out what to do instead of either getting mad or being a doormat. Because I feel like getting mad, which I don’t think I am getting super mad, just saying stop doing what you’re doing! This is a bad thing to do and makes people feel bad and doesn’t make them change like you want them to! But kind of loudly and strongly and sometimes I interrupt her.

But I feel like just taking it… well, I was in a bad marriage where I did that because it seemed like the Christian thing to do, and that was a problem. So I am just confused about this stuff.

Thank you!

And I think that goes to the root of the problem that not only you, but other Christians face. Many have been, for a lack of a better word, “brainwashed” or “conditioned” that we have to put up with abuse otherwise we are either bad Christians or outrightly sinning. It manifests itself in the age-old attitudes of “it’s just your cross, shut up and bear it” and “offer it up so you can spring a soul out of purgatory” or “your sufferings are necessary for your sanctification”; belittling comments of the order “Jesus died a horrible death on the Cross for your sins and you are whining about that??”; it also manifests itself in bullying attempts to silence those seeking help by telling them that they are sinning by revealing another’s fault. Look for these signs in the world; look for these signs in CAF posts.

 

[Harmony]

I have been thinking a lot about what you said here, and it is soooo true. I could go through and see examples of what I did in all those things you listed.

And I still don’t know the answer.

Thanks so much for all your help!