How to convert me to your religion:

[Zundrah]

p.s. I also find the title of the thread offensive.

The title of the thread is offensive?

How to convert me to your religion:

…Religion!? I am protestant but I never saw the catholic church or faith as a diffrent religion!
But don’t be offending by what the OP said in the title, after all Ideo doesn’t know christ and there fore is not accountable for her remarks about christianity. I’m sure that you can find it in your heart to understand her and be gentle with her too.

They need to have an open mind for that to happen (conversion), and from the disparaging response she just posted (to another poster) I don’t think she’s prepared to listen.

All Ideo needs to do is recognise sin and confess it, she can start this by recognising that God is only out of reach because we ignore him.

 

[Mel_Stones]

I’ve changed my mind. I will find the common arguments within the questions and post replies to that some time Saturday or so.

You are in this deep. How old are you?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Heya, guys, I found this questionnaire, and thought it had a pretty good base to it, so I tweaked it and uploaded it. This is a list of a few of the problems I have with Christianity, and I absolutely welcome you to answer these questions for me. I’d like to make one for all the major religions, but I live in Alabama, so the only people trying to convert me are Christians, many of them my dear friends and family. I am what I like to think of as a freethinker: I don’t like to dismiss things offhand until I have all the evidence.
Unfortunately, when it comes to religion, we never have all the evidence, so I cannot come to any positive logical conclusions, only negative ones (i.e.-this cannot be correct). I am the type of person who enjoys learning new things, so I encourage you to enlighten me if there is any new information you might have in regards to the questions I have. I have done years of research on the subject, though, so tired arguments do not work. I’ll be honest, this is really for getting people thinking- I do doubt that you will be able to answer them in a way which will convert me, since I know of no answers which will justify them. However, I thought it might be best to give anyone who will the opportunity. No :slapfight: answers, please.

For all the unbelievers on this forum, this is a great questionnaire which you can download and tweak for your own purposes.

scribd.com/full/18251545?access_key=key-15whdb9phcefmn9biei4

I had a look at the site and there are 133 questions. I have no intention of aswering 133 questions from a cut-and-paste job which is somebody else’s work, and not even your own.

If you have objections to becoming a Christian, or to the Christian religion, or to Catholicism, it would be better if you used your own words.

So what are your OWN main objections?

 

[Ideo]

Josie, why is it that when Christians read the Bible they are gaining “wisdom” but when someone else does, we are getting “preconceived notions”? I’ve READ the Bible- it was what led me to reject it. Personally, I think it is silly to require me to read something in its entirety before declaring it silly, because if I did that for every religion, I’d be reading for thousands of years nonstop. However, I did make an exception becauase the Bible is, here in Alabama, the one that is shoved into my face most often. What you call “preconceptions” I will call facts. Give me an example of my preconceptions.

Why is it, also, that you accuse me of an insincere heart? You do NOT know me- how on earth can you possibly accuse me of not sincerely searching for truth? I DID, for YEARS. Ever since I was a little middle schooler, I would get down on my knees every night and pray for God to show me that He was there. Middle school was about a decade ago. As I grew older, my requests turned to academia. At first, I was so glad to finally have the answers I desired, because, as I said, I was educated at a Christian school. However, when I found out the explanations for those things which I was taught (some of them being outright lies- the most simple of them saying that the Bible claims the earth to be a sphere. It does not- the Hebrew word is for a 2D circle, which the Greeks already knew at this time)

Why is it that I can’t come here and try to make people think, or I have an “insincere heart”, while if one of you goes and tries to make an atheist, agnostic, or freethinker think (as if a freethinker needs help, which is what I am), you are just trying to save someone’s soul in the greatest sincerity. Christianity, nay, religion, does NOT have a monopoly on free thought OR on sincerity. I am a sincere person, and my intellectual integrity absolutely would not allow me to reject any god that I could logically prove. Logic and reason are the things which I trust to lead me to truth, not the blind faith that I was raised with, because blind faith differs by area- someone else may have blind faith in a different religion and have never even heard of Jesus. They can be just as loving and accepting, or just as high and mighty and unaccepting of other beliefs as Christians.

 

[Ideo]

MK, here you go. These are your Holy Quran’s views on the subject. Perhaps you ought to read it sometime.
. . . If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great (Sura 2:223)
Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (Sura 2:223)
Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . . (Sura 2:228)
The share of the male shall be twice that of a female . . . . (Sura 4:11)
And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Sura 2:282)
And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands [as prisoners of war] . . .(Sura 4:24)
And if you be apprehensive that you will not be able to do justice to the orphans, you may marry two or three or four women whom you choose. But if you apprehend that you might not be able to do justice to them, then marry only one wife, or marry those who have fallen in your possession. (Sura 4:3)

Want me to post more? Sorry, but when a god orders you to hit your wife, and says that you are a degree above her, that does not qualify as a god worthy of worship. I will not accept the “culture” argument, simply because, if a god controls the culture, and truly is a god, if it feels there is something wrong with the culture, I cannot see it standing back and saying, “ahhhh, this is fine.”

Perhaps I made a mistake in posting? Instead of thinking about these questions, like you expect nonbelievers to when YOU give THEM questions (I don’t care how they are phrased- these ARE valid questions), you remain adamant in your determination to call everything non-christian or non-catholic “insincere”.

Zundrah, here’s another conundrum. I honestly and from the bottom of my heart believe that you are a sincere person. I believe that there are a lot of sincere, wonderful Christians who would be just as wonderful in another, or no, religion because I’ve been there and I know that there is no magical “change”, no matter how much praying you do. You must work to change. Christians know this. But so does pretty much everyone else. We work to improve ourselves with what empowers us, be it religion, a goal, whatever.
But the fact is that you are taking what was meant to be a control mechanism for the masses thousands of years ago and twisting it to be just as good as you are. I know because that’s what I had to do, also, in order to justify all of the horrid acts in the Bible. You are a good person, but you are twisting this religion, just like early Christians twisted Judaism, to make it goodness and love… when, beneath the verses of love, it’s all just… well, there’s no other way of putting it- Pure Evil. Anyone who finds the slaughter of innocent children to be “God’s Way” needs to do some serious soul-searching. I’ve read the book- and I found less slaughter and bloodshed and sin in Stephen King’s books, which is definitely saying something. I honestly wish from the bottom of my heart that I could free you from the preconception that religion is the only way to whatever Higher Power may be up there. You seem like a great person, like so many of us are, whether Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist, or anything else… Even though we find bliss in that ignorance, though, we are never truly at one with anything until we let go of the notion that a bunch of Bronze Age cavemen sitting around a campfire knew more than we do about the universe. I thought I was happy as a Christian- maybe I was… but now I am free from that, even though it sometimes makes me sad that I don’t have the certainty I used to, the certainty I tried so hard to hang onto… but in any case, I would love for at least one person to begin to think. As I said, I was serious about my OP… but I honestly don’t believe that you can justify it. Even if you can explain the suffering in the Bible, I will not worship an Evil God, one that demands the slaughter of innocent animals, one that tells men it is acceptable to beat your wives, slaves, and children as long as they don’t die too soon, one that orders you to “rip open the wombs of the pregnant women”… That God I shall never worship, but if you can prove to me that this god of yours is truly benign, and does exist, I shall never shy away from that Truth, if it be so. Tis not in my nature.

 

[Ideo]

I had a look at the site and there are 133 questions. I have no intention of aswering 133 questions from a cut-and-paste job which is somebody else’s work, and not even your own.

If you have objections to becoming a Christian, or to the Christian religion, or to Catholicism, it would be better if you used your own words.

So what are your OWN main objections?

Oy, oy, oy! You give me too little credit. Look up the original and you will see that I erased several of the questions, changed the language to be less offensive, corrected their grammar, and added a few of my own questions. These ARE a good outline of my objections. But GOOD JOB on skirting the responsibility of evangelizing that your bible gives you (Mark 16:15) A++ Now go get a sword and smite me for my unbelief, as the LORD Your God commands in Deuteronomy.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

Oy, oy, oy! You give me too little credit. Look up the original and you will see that I erased several of the questions, changed the language to be less offensive, corrected their grammar, and added a few of my own questions. These ARE a good outline of my objections. But GOOD JOB on skirting the responsibility of evangelizing that your bible gives you (Mark 16:15) A++ Now go get a sword and smite me for my unbelief, as the LORD Your God commands in Deuteronomy.

Now that there have been enough of your posts so that your temperament and disposition can be discerned, there is a passage from Holy Scripture that would seem to apply in dealing with your taunts:

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.” Matthew 7:6

If that seems harsh, well, know that Our Lord did not expect his followers to deliver themselves up for the amusement and feeding of the malevolent and ill-disposed.

Make no mistake. Catholics have become more than very good at spotting people out to attack the Church. Consider yourself spotted. Your sarcastic “good jobs” and lifting quotations from Holy Scripture out of context is a dead giveaway.

There is little credibility to the earlier assertion that the aim of posting the questions was to stimulate discussion. The aim of the exercise is clearly to provide opportunities to turn and rend, as the above sarcasm clearly bespeaks.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Mel_Stones]

*Anything I try to defend here is from my own understanding which may or may not line up with the Church’s interpretation. Anything that does not line up with the Church’s interpretation is to be disregarded and replaced with that teaching.
I am not a theologian. But God does wish each individual to do his/her best to read and put to practice His word and so my interpretations are an attempt at that.

1. No. Catholicism is not based entirely on the Bible we include tradition in our faith. I leave it to the General Magistrate to interpret the Bible and apostolic (unbroken line from Jesus through his apostles to Pope Benedict today) succession for tradition. With Catholicism there is no responsibility until knowledge is gained (i.e. a sin is not mortal if the sinner doesn’t know it is mortal - it must be a grave matter, committed with full knowledge and consent). We are called to be as devout as our knowledge allows and to expand that knowledge to the best of our abilities.
   I am not a theologian, you likely know the Bible better than I. This imperfection is stated and restated whenever I feel necessary.
2. Die does not mean physical death but rather spiritual death that is the end of a face-to-face relationship with God. Adam and Eve’s eating from the tree is why God no longer physically walks on earth among us. Jeremiah – he was a prophet and felt this is what God did, that doesn’t mean God really did deceive him. My point is what we feel and what really is isn’t always the same. Ezekiel - the verses before explain. God will not allow people who worship idols to deceive His prophet and He doesn’t. IF He did then He would be deceiving His prophet but He never let that happen.

This may be a vague excuse to you but it is true so I am going to say it. **Bible verses cannot be taken out of context. To fully understand the context you must be wiser than I **(see above disclaimer).

For any prophecies - Ask a Jewish Torah expert (sorry I don’t know if they have a special title or anything). I leave this to someone wiser than I. I trust that the Magistrate has figured all of these things out. I could be wrong in placing my trust in the RCC but it is a human impossibility to check the entire reliability of everyone. The apostles were convinced Jesus fulfilled all of the prophecies for Messiah. They were learned in the Torah, today we are not because we are taught that Jesus fulfilled the Torah’s prophecies. I trust that they knew the prophecies.

If you want the Bible to be error free, define error.

Those who are innocent and die are dying a physical death not necessarily a spiritual death. Innocent children/people suffer in this world because it is a fallen world and** God gave us free will, and some people choose to hurt the innocent.** Yes, God could know all before it happens but He chooses not to. He gives the chose to us and so gives us free-will. He does not do this on a moment by moment basis, He made the chose at the beginning of human history.

We (Catholics) are human. We have made mistakes. If you can find a religion with 2000 (minus 50-60) years of history and billions of people without a few things not to be proud of, you’ve found something better. But there is no such religion.

For deaths God allowed in the Old Testament - they were given full chance for the choice between God and Satan. (such as #42 - They rejected God’s prophet and so rejected God.)

The Jewish faith, which Catholicism is a continuation of, goes back to the beginning of time. My proof for this - the Bible (it is a history book after all).

 

[Mel_Stones]

One more big thing.

The Old Testament in terms of Jewish law, no longer applies. It is there for the history.

 

[thirdn6]

Now that there have been enough of your posts so that your temperament and disposition can be discerned, there is a passage from Holy Scripture that would seem to apply in dealing with your taunts:

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.” Matthew 7:6

If that seems harsh, well, know that Our Lord did not expect his followers to deliver themselves up for the amusement and feeding of the malevolent and ill-disposed.

Make no mistake. Catholics have become more than very good at spotting people out to attack the Church. Consider yourself spotted. Your sarcastic “good jobs” and lifting quotations from Holy Scripture out of context is a dead giveaway.

There is little credibility to the earlier assertion that the aim of posting the questions was to stimulate discussion. The aim of the exercise is clearly to provide opportunities to turn and rend, as the above sarcasm clearly bespeaks.

Blessings,

Gerry

We are of the same mind on this! Even the very scripture/verse you quoted!

 

[kalt]

There is no need to refer to me as a “Mister” just because I am speaking with some sort of intelligence. I am a female, and, according to Islam, a lesser being for it. I will not worship a sexist God. Anyone who says otherwise is ignoring the Holy Quran’s words. I have not done as much study into the Quran, but I must say that it is just as absurd as the Bible. What I know is based off of actual verses, not American preconceptions, I assure you.

Islam suffers from the same problems as other religions- scientific discrepancy, moral absurdities and contradictions, violence mixed in with messages of the Ultimate Peace, claims of being the One True when it is no more valid than any other.

I really do spend too much time deconstructing these holy books, but if you would like me to send you the links to some of the scientific evidence against Islam, I can.

You seem to be very content right where you are - not believing. It sounds like you’ve taken the time to consider your position and have come to a conclusion that makes sense to you.

We don’t need to answer the questions that you’ve already answerd, through study, for yourself. We, obviously, have come to a different conclusion after study. That’s the beauty of it. We’re free to believe–or not.

If you had not already studied the subject, I would answer some of your questions. I trust that you have given it plenty of time and intelligent consideration and that you have made up your mind.

Hats off to freedom of religion.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

Ideo
Oh, Rory, yep, a hundred words. Long answers are usually only for the purpose of confusing people. If you can’t say it in 100 words or less, it’s usually either too dogmatic or too illogical to say it in a few words. What is it that a famous Pascal saying? “I had no time to write you a short letter, so I wrote you a long one”, or something to that effect? I am an educated person- however, if God is so obvious, even a simpleton should be able to understand the argument. Keep it short and sweet.

Rory
I do like the saying you attribute to Pascal. I think my attempts at writing are usually improved by deletion, not lengthening. I have no wish to confuse or multiply words. And I do not assume that “God is so obvious”. I suggest your word limit is too restrictive. If it is usually for the purpose of obfuscation, it is nonetheless impossible to lay foundations and finish structures without being permitted the necessary materials and implements.

#3) When being asked by the Jews a question about divorce, He revealed that Moses permitted under certain circumstances “for the hardness of their hearts”, but that this was not God’s original or perfect intent. This establishes that there God’s law could condescend to the misplaced prejudices of the people of Moses’ time.

That said, even in Moses’ day the woman was not stoned merely for having lost her virginity, but for have representing herself to be a virgin to a man whose wealth and name she wished to take. Regarding the distinction between “the city” and “the field”, in the interest of brevity (which you should appreciate) we are only given the principle. If the woman by crying out could have been saved, she is obligated to do so. The presumption if the act occurred in the field is in her favor. The presumption in the city is against her. At knife point, or having been gagged, the principle would acquit her in the city.

God’s law to the Israelites is undoubtedly a lessening, not increase upon the severity with which these cases had been treated in those days. For these reasons, the Catholic Church is not obligated in our day, or since the days of Christ, to declare the duty of the state to execute those who have illicitly (according to the teaching of the church) lost their virginity.

 

[josie_L]

Josie, why is it that when Christians read the Bible they are gaining “wisdom” but when someone else does, we are getting “preconceived notions”? I’ve READ the Bible- it was what led me to reject it. Personally, I think it is silly to require me to read something in its entirety before declaring it silly, because if I did that for every religion, I’d be reading for thousands of years nonstop. However, I did make an exception becauase the Bible is, here in Alabama, the one that is shoved into my face most often. What you call “preconceptions” I will call facts. Give me an example of my preconceptions.

Why is it, also, that you accuse me of an insincere heart? You do NOT know me- how on earth can you possibly accuse me of not sincerely searching for truth? I DID, for YEARS. Ever since I was a little middle schooler, I would get down on my knees every night and pray for God to show me that He was there. Middle school was about a decade ago. As I grew older, my requests turned to academia. At first, I was so glad to finally have the answers I desired, because, as I said, I was educated at a Christian school. However, when I found out the explanations for those things which I was taught (some of them being outright lies- the most simple of them saying that the Bible claims the earth to be a sphere. It does not- the Hebrew word is for a 2D circle, which the Greeks already knew at this time)

Why is it that I can’t come here and try to make people think, or I have an “insincere heart”, while if one of you goes and tries to make an atheist, agnostic, or freethinker think (as if a freethinker needs help, which is what I am), you are just trying to save someone’s soul in the greatest sincerity. Christianity, nay, religion, does NOT have a monopoly on free thought OR on sincerity. I am a sincere person, and my intellectual integrity absolutely would not allow me to reject any god that I could logically prove. Logic and reason are the things which I trust to lead me to truth, not the blind faith that I was raised with, because blind faith differs by area- someone else may have blind faith in a different religion and have never even heard of Jesus. They can be just as loving and accepting, or just as high and mighty and unaccepting of other beliefs as Christians.

The fact that you think you need to make me “think” is how shall I say this, arrogant, for I too use logic and reason to come to the conclusions that I do, but the clincher is that I experience God and that is something I cannot teach you. If you’re truly seeking God than I would say go visit the many Christian orders there are that help the poor and dispossessed or go to any poor country and see who apart from the Christians is helping those most in need. My answering a more than 100 plus questionnaire (apart from it being really time-consuming) will not help you to believe.

p.s. I said you’re not likely to listen because of your attitude, you were very disparaging to one of the posters here (about his religion and ours).

Not quite sure where you got the 2d (were Jews aware of dimensions back then) circle but aren’t you quibbling over semantics, it may be Jews did not have a word in hebrew to translate “sphere”. Have you studied the hebrew language? And furthermore, what makes you think the Greeks did not gain their knowledge from the Jews?

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

Ideo
Oh, Rory, yep, a hundred words. Long answers are usually only for the purpose of confusing people. If you can’t say it in 100 words or less, it’s usually either too dogmatic or too illogical to say it in a few words. What is it that a famous Pascal saying? “I had no time to write you a short letter, so I wrote you a long one”, or something to that effect? I am an educated person- however, if God is so obvious, even a simpleton should be able to understand the argument. Keep it short and sweet.

Rory
I do like the saying you attribute to Pascal. I think my attempts at writing are usually improved by deletion, not lengthening. I have no wish to confuse or multiply words. And I do not assume that “God is so obvious”. I suggest your word limit is too restrictive. If it is usually for the purpose of obfuscation, it is nonetheless impossible to lay foundations and finish structures without being permitted the necessary materials and implements.

#3) When being asked by the Jews a question about divorce, He revealed that Moses permitted under certain circumstances “for the hardness of their hearts”, but that this was not God’s original or perfect intent. This establishes that there God’s law could condescend to the misplaced prejudices of the people of Moses’ time.

That said, even in Moses’ day the woman was not stoned merely for having lost her virginity, but for have representing herself to be a virgin to a man whose wealth and name she wished to take. Regarding the distinction between “the city” and “the field”, in the interest of brevity (which you should appreciate) we are only given the principle. If the woman by crying out could have been saved, she is obligated to do so. The presumption if the act occurred in the field is in her favor. The presumption in the city is against her. At knife point, or having been gagged, the principle would acquit her in the city.

God’s law to the Israelites is undoubtedly a lessening, not increase upon the severity with which these cases had been treated in those days. For these reasons, the Catholic Church is not obligated in our day, or since the days of Christ, to declare the duty of the state to execute those who have illicitly (according to the teaching of the church) lost their virginity.

Some salesman showed up when I hadn’t finished editing. Here are some corrections for clarity and typographical errors. Changes are italicized.

1. When being asked by the Jews a question about divorce, Jesus revealed what Moses…
2. This establishes that…God’s law. (delete there)

 

[Thorwald]

Heya, guys, I found this questionnaire, and thought it had a pretty good base to it, so I tweaked it and uploaded it. This is a list of a few of the problems I have with Christianity, and I absolutely welcome you to answer these questions for me. I’d like to make one for all the major religions, but I live in Alabama, so the only people trying to convert me are Christians, many of them my dear friends and family. I am what I like to think of as a freethinker: I don’t like to dismiss things offhand until I have all the evidence.
Unfortunately, when it comes to religion, we never have all the evidence, so I cannot come to any positive logical conclusions, only negative ones (i.e.-this cannot be correct). I am the type of person who enjoys learning new things, so I encourage you to enlighten me if there is any new information you might have in regards to the questions I have. I have done years of research on the subject, though, so tired arguments do not work. I’ll be honest, this is really for getting people thinking- I do doubt that you will be able to answer them in a way which will convert me, since I know of no answers which will justify them. However, I thought it might be best to give anyone who will the opportunity. No :slapfight: answers, please.

For all the unbelievers on this forum, this is a great questionnaire which you can download and tweak for your own purposes.

scribd.com/full/18251545?access_key=key-15whdb9phcefmn9biei4

Maybe this will help??? The remains of Sodom & Gomorrah were recently discovered near the Dead Sea. I watched a video on this, but I don’t know who prepared it. Apparently, the two cities were reduced to ‘complete ash’ (nothing could be burned further). There were only some pieces of sulphur remaining, and these pieces can be set on fire, even now. It ties in perfectly, to the scriptures.

As Christians, we do not need ‘physical proof’ as you seem to. In Romans chpt 1, we are told, ‘to simply look around us’. We can see all of the proof that we need. We are born with the knowledge of good and evil. Although this is a ‘blessing’ (we think of others), it is also a ‘curse’ (inherited from the act of Adam & Eve).

 

[PJM]

Heya, guys, I found this questionnaire, and thought it had a pretty good base to it, so I tweaked it and uploaded it. This is a list of a few of the problems I have with Christianity, and I absolutely welcome you to answer these questions for me. For all the unbelievers on this forum, this is a great questionnaire which you can download and tweak for your own purposes.

***Hi,

You are obviously a person of at least average intellegence who thinks he is being very clever.

First because the article can’t be cut and pasted I 'll only answer a few questions. I suspect you have not committed to any religion yet, because you are not honestly seeking the truth.

Pope Benedict XVI in his first holily as pope is quoted as explaining that"there cannot be my truth and you’re truth or there would be no truth." It from that logical understanding, knowing that on any isssue or single topic there can only be a single truth.

This being the reality, one is far less likely to encounter truth if not truthfully seeking it.

First question. Yes I have read the entire bible [Catholic version] mutiple times.

Second question of what Yahweh God told Adam and what Satan said. ***

Your question is clever but shows a lack of understanding of what is said actually means.

When God told Adam that if he ate of the forbidden tree that he would die, he was speaking metaphorically. The “death” He was fortelling did if fact occour. We know it today as “Orginal Sin.” You will note of couse that Adam did not choak and die “die” on the apple. Satan’s insite was nearly true. Gen. 3: 4 "But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

They may not having been made perfectly innocent understood “good or evil” as they would have been foreign concepts for them, but they would have understood “being gods.” That then was the most likely attraction.

Duet. 22: 20-22 "20 But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, 21then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has wrought folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father’s house; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you. 22 "If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall purge the evil from Israel.

***There appears to be in evidence a level of duplicity in the questions you ask.

The stoning of the harlot was due to the shame she brought to the State of Isreal and to her fathers house. Please look at verse 22, this punishment was extreme but a common responce to a serious breach of faith and trust.***

Love and prayers friend,

 

[Timbothefiveth]

I think the main argument in favor of Christianity is the apostles. Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead and many of the apostles were willing to die for this belief. This was something that they saw with their own eyes, and what reason would they have to lie? Like I said, they were willing to die for it. The only other explanation is that they somehow hallucinated the same thing at once.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Oy, oy, oy! You give me too little credit. Look up the original and you will see that I erased several of the questions, changed the language to be less offensive, corrected their grammar, and added a few of my own questions. These ARE a good outline of my objections. But GOOD JOB on skirting the responsibility of evangelizing that your bible gives you (Mark 16:15) A++ Now go get a sword and smite me for my unbelief, as the LORD Your God commands in Deuteronomy.

Give me your specific questions one by one and I’ll attempt to answer them one by one. But I am not going to be led down a goat track answering a third party’s list of objections (many of which could be answered by their doing some research of their own on the net).

You give me your question and I’ll attempt to answer it. But one by one. In the end that is the only way any of us deals with questions. If that one is resolved, then we move onto the next.

 

[mkhan901]

Ms. Ideo,

You stated:

“MK, here you go. These are your Holy Quran’s views on the subject. Perhaps you ought to read it sometime.

“Want me to post more? Sorry, but when a god orders you to hit your wife, and says that you are a degree above her, that does not qualify as a god worthy of worship. I will not accept the “culture” argument, simply because, if a god controls the culture, and truly is a god, if it feels there is something wrong with the culture, I cannot see it standing back and saying, “ahhhh, this is fine.”

I think you have confused the issue of equality vs. authority.

Do not parents have authority over their children? If the children rebel they can be disciplined by their parents. But that doesn’t mean parents have a right to abuse them or be violent with them. Nor does it mean that the children are “unequal’ to their parents.

Do not people elected in government have a degree of authority over the citizens even though we are equal to our President/Congressmen?

Does not the man have authority as the head of the household and family?

Why does that make men and women “unequal?”

Also, why do you have a problem with the obvious fact of reality that men and women are simply CREATED DIFFERENTLY and because of that there are going to be differences in some of our roles/responsibilities and how we’re dealt with that do not in anyway imply that we are “unequal”? Why are you upset at religion because of some basic facts of nature?

You stated:

“Perhaps I made a mistake in posting? Instead of thinking about these questions, like you expect nonbelievers to when YOU give THEM questions (I don’t care how they are phrased- these ARE valid questions), you remain adamant in your determination to call everything non-christian or non-catholic “insincere”.”

Why don’t you actually read the verses with reflection and look at the context of the verse for its full meaning rather than making up your own prejudged conclusions on what you want the verses to imply? Let’s take an example of a verse you quoted:

Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (Sura 2:223)

See Ibn Kathir’s commentary on this verse.

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=5921

The reason the analogy to fields/tilth is made in this verse is because women are the ones that give birth to the children. The verse was revealed in this context because some Jews were telling the Muslims that if you have sex from behind, your children will come out cross-eyed. So that’s the context behind this verse.

“(…so go to your tilth, when or how you will,) meaning, wherever you wish from the front or from behind, as long as sex takes place in one valve (the female sexual organ), as the authentic Hadiths have indicated.

For instance, Al-Bukhari recorded that Ibn Al-Munkadir said that he heard Jabir say that the Jews used to claim that if one has sex with his wife from behind (in the vagina) the offspring would become cross-eyed. Then, this Ayah was revealed”

This does not mean that the “only purpose of women and sex is procreation.” I know that certain respected theologians in the past of a certain religion that is not Islam have held such a view. Know that this is not the Islamic position. Sex is also for pleasure and can be for pleasure alone and there is more to the purpose of a woman’s life then just being a baby producer. Ayesha(ra) was one of the wives of the Prophet(saw) who contributed so much to our religious scholarship/history and she never had any kids. There is nothing in Islam that prohibits women from accomplishing and “being all that they can be” so long as they fulfill their required obligations.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

Some salesman showed up when I hadn’t finished editing. Here are some corrections for clarity and typographical errors. Changes are italicized.

1. When being asked by the Jews a question about divorce, Jesus revealed what Moses…
2. This establishes that…God’s law. (delete there)

You should come to our house, if you are a salesman. We blew $7,000 on windows. Windows!

Please somebody telll me that windows cost that much.