How to convince wife to go to marriage counseling?

[mariciaspirit]

May God have mercy on both of your souls and may his light shine in your situation. May he also grant you the peace “which passeth all understanding” (Phil 4:7) and strength (1 Sam. 2:9) to see you through this. Please remember to walk righteously (Prov. 11:6).:bowdown:

 

[JoeKR]

Just an update on my situation. My wife now has an apartment with the other man near where he works about two hours away. She appears to be paying for the expensive lease so far herself which is disturbing too. I assume she is still trying to get a job in that city. I still see her one or two nights a weeks at our house due to the logistics of her current employment. We really don’t talk unless it’s necessary. Everything is now just awkward between us.

For the most part I have tried moving on. I’ve been keeping really busy with friend, family, and some traveling. I spoke to my pastor recently and told him I think I can’t take my wife back even if her relationship with the other man ended. We talked a little bit about an annullment too. And I had to inform him that my wife was bringing the other man on a week-long mission trip with the high school youth group which is totally inappropriate.

The funny thing is that the past few days I seem to be havng some second thoughts about all this. Maybe I’m reading too much or I’m just scared about the future, I don’t know. I’ve even had a couple dreams the past two nights where we were back together or I was working to get her back in my life. It’s a little frustrating because I don’t know how to interpret this. I try to keep in mind that this situation is like a roller coaster with ups and downs, and I’m likely to have some doubts about my decisions.

I pray every day for guidance from God. I know I’ll eventually get through this part of my life, and I know it will make me a better and stronger person in the end.

 

[dulcissima]

Glad to hear your update, Joe. I read back through your story and can see the amazing progress that you have made. You seem to do a good job of taking a critical look at the situation, trying to see it from many perspectives. I am sorry that you are in this position, but it does seem like you are doing everything that you should be doing. It’s a process and it takes some time, but you are getting stronger. There are better days ahead. I promise.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Joe, good to see you again on the forum. I bet the fact that your wife is mostly away and you don’t see her very often is a good thing. Basically, you have to keep your sanity and balance in this difficult situation. In my opinion, it would be good for you to file for divorce or a civil separation. It’s an awkward, dangerous, and unhealthy situation that the two of you are considered one unit from a legal and financial standpoint, in civil law, after your wife has been gone and living with someone else.

Spiritually, it seems very significant to me that your wife is going public with the other man, taking him to the youthgroup trip. It looks like her spiritual eyes are blinded and her heart is hardened.

I remember hearing on radio a couple where the husband was having an affair, and a close colleague and friend confronted him. That push was enough to change his trajectory, he went and confessed the whole thing to his pastor and to his wife, and made a clean break from the affair by putting an end to any contact with the other woman. But your wife seems stubborn and unrepentant. I think it is good for you to pray for her, because she is in danger of perishing and loosing her soul to eternal fire, but praying for her is not the same thing as staying legally married to her, and allowing your soul to be tormented when she comes home once a week, because it’s convenient with the logistics of her job. It would probably be better for your emotional health and legal security to have your wife totally out of your house and have a legally binding divorce or civil separation.

 

[Vinchenzo]

The best thing you can do now is detach, protect and become a better you
and also be thankful that no children were involved

 

[mariciaspirit]

I do not agree with the person who says consider divorce. The Word of God does give divorce as an option “ When a man takes a wife and marries her, if then she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a bill of divorce, puts it in her hand, and sends her out of his house,” (Deut 24:1). God hates divorce. This is also in the Word. In the New Testament there is forgiveness of sins and salvation through the Blood of Jesus. It also says “Love is patient and kind; it is not jealous or conceited or proud; love is not ill mannered or selfish or irritable: love does not keep a record of wrongs; love is not happy with evil, but is happy with the truth. Love never gives up: and its faith, hope, and patience never fail. Love is eternal. ( 1Cor 13:4-8) Maybe family life is at a mess at this time because we give up too easily on our loved ones.

1. Write the previous two pieces of scripture and give it to your wife in the right time. The Word is a two edge sword “For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.” (Hebrew 4:12) God says the Word does not return to him void. (Isa 55:11) What she is doing is wrong and the word will get faster results than your tongue. Things will start to move in the spiritual realm and then in the physical.
2. Keep yourself blameless. Free from sin. Regular confession before man (your priest) and God. Do not do anything to jeopardise your victory. Let go of all bitterness, anger, hurt, etc. “Avenge not yourselves, beloved, but give place unto the wrath of God: for it is written, Vengeance belongeth unto me; I will recompense, saith the Lord.” Romans 12:19
3. Get more direct in your prayer. Plead the Blood on the both of you. Get a Blood Prayer and say it day and night. Ask the Holy Spirit to shine some light in your situation. Prayer for the opening of her eyes reminding God of the Word. “Let marriage be had in honor among all, and let the bed be undefiled: for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.” Heb 13:4

Be realistic. This is a spiritual battle. Your wife is under the control of the enemy. Try not to focus too much on what she is doing because she is no longer serving Christ. You cannot win without surrending your entire life to God and hers as well. The word says pray for those who persecute you. Place yourself back into his perfect will. Focus less on what you want and more on what he has in store for your future. “Thine will be done.”

Remember, my situation was similar to yours. I did most of these and more (Liberation Rosary, Prayer day and night, etc. Recently the Holy Spirit revealed to me he would be releasing me from some things. During the last couple of weeks I have been watching God working in my life including on my husband. I am watching the transformation of my husband take place and things are getting better between the both of us. I do not trust him but I definitely trust God. When God says he will do something then he will. Focus all your attention on him. Forget about what lies ahead. Just pray and he will let you know what to do.

Here is an interesting link that might help you. The Word is like a two edged sword because not only does it defeat the enemy but it edifies you.
http://www.bible-knowledge.com/seek-the-lord.html
bible-knowledge.com/How-to-handle-negative-feelings.html
God Bless:bowdown:

(Oh my Gosh I wrote a book )

 

[Liberanosamalo]

That advice is unfair. And it puts all the responsibility for maintaining a so-called marriage on the person who has been wounded and driven to the edge, not the sinner who is selfishly pursuing a relationship with someone else.

This man has tried everything to keep his wife.

God hates divorce. God also hates sin. Both exist in a world full of people with free will and intellect.

It is unfair to insist on someone hanging onto a relationship with false hope while their spouse is off with someone else. Maybe she will come back someday. To what? To a spouse who had a nervous breakdown from the grief and the stress and the loneliness and the feelings of spiritual abandonment?

It takes two to make a marriage. This long thread has gone into a lot of details about this union. There is reason to believe there may not even be a “marriage” in the true and binding spiritual sense of the word. And maybe since there is no true vow made with full consent, that’s why it fell apart. This woman is running after another man. Maybe she never was fully into the marriage to begin with.

That is for a tribunal to consider.

To expect Joe to continue waiting for a woman who is tormenting him and using his house… what used to be their marital home…as a cheap hotel is beyond cruel.

Christ did make an exception for divorce… lewd conduct. And taking one’s lover on a church missionary trip openly is pretty lewd.

 

[mrpathetic]

Try to get this point across to your wife:

We are not put on this earth to be happy. We are put on this earth to serve God. Marriage is a vocation, and her responsibility under that vocation is to serve God, by serving her family.

Whether this makes her happy or not, is irrelevent. Whether this meets her emotional needs, or needs for intimacy, is irrelevent. You can try to meet her emotional needs, but even if you cannot, it does not remove her responsibility under her marriage vows.

I long ago gave up any expectation of having my “needs” met in my marriage - physical, emotional, or sexual. I now focus on fulfilling the needs of my wife and children. This is the essence of sacrifical love, which Christ exemplified for us on the cross. Once I adopted this menality, I found it much easier to bear the burdens of marriage. This is the change of heart, and mind, that your wife needs to make.

Instead of focusing on being “happy”, your wife should focus on the joy of serving the Lord, through humble obedience. And if she focuses on that, she will not need a “social life”, or emotional support, or any of this other garbage that she is complaining about.

I don’t know what type of RCIA instruction, or pre-Canaa instruction, your wife received. But I think she needs to go back for a refresher course. She can start by reading Ephesians 5 tonight.

21
Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ. 6
22
Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord.
23
For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body.
24
As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

People! Don’t you get it? That ship has sailed! She left him standing on the shore.

Fortunately there are no kids involved to have their lives messed up by this abomination she has constructed.

His job right now is not to sit alone and live for her salvation… a salvation she appears not to want.

It took him this long to make peace with reality.

It’s a bit late in the day for her to hear anything. She won’t. He tried. She’s gone.

He needs to change the locks and she can pay for a hotel room when she has business in town.

I suspect any misgivings he has now are the remnants of sadness about it “really being over.”

He’s been more than patient. Someday she may see this. She is being used by the other guy. But she wants to be his sugar momma and provide for him or whatever… she really doesn’t deserve “two husbands” in this, does she?

 

[dulcissima]

Try to get this point across to your wife:

We are not put on this earth to be happy. We are put on this earth to serve God. Marriage is a vocation, and her responsibility under that vocation is to serve God, by serving her family.

Whether this makes her happy or not, is irrelevent. Whether this meets her emotional needs, or needs for intimacy, is irrelevent. You can try to meet her emotional needs, but even if you cannot, it does not remove her responsibility under her marriage vows.

**I long ago gave up any expectation of having my “needs” met in my marriage - physical, emotional, or sexual. I now focus on fulfilling the needs of my wife and children. This is the essence of sacrifical love, which Christ exemplified for us on the cross. Once I adopted this menality, I found it much easier to bear the burdens of marriage. **This is the change of heart, and mind, that your wife needs to make.

Instead of focusing on being “happy”, your wife should focus on the joy of serving the Lord, through humble obedience. And if she focuses on that, she will not need a “social life”, or emotional support, or any of this other garbage that she is complaining about.

I don’t know what type of RCIA instruction, or pre-Canaa instruction, your wife received. But I think she needs to go back for a refresher course. She can start by reading Ephesians 5 tonight.

21
Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ. 6
22
Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord.
23
For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body.
24
As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything.

mrpathetic,

How does that benefit your wife’s sanctity, to allow her to totally walk all over you with no regard for your needs? This sounds like a very disordered relationship, and I think you are setting the wrong example for your children. Being a doormat is not the hallmark of a saint.

 

[mrpathetic]

mrpathetic,

How does that benefit your wife’s sanctity, to allow her to totally walk all over you with no regard for your needs? This sounds like a very disordered relationship, and I think you are setting the wrong example for your children. Being a doormat is not the hallmark of a saint.

I think I have heard the same logic from about 5,000 people. Maybe you’re number 5001.

I will simply respond with the same response that I give today: marriage is sacrifice. It is humiliating, suffering sacrifice. I understand this now. I did not understand this before, back when I was a whiner and a complainer. But now, I fully comprehend this.

Don’t think this is true? Then you haven’t studied Scripture. Go back to Ephesians 5, and let’s read the rest:

25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her
26
to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word,
27
that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

How did Christ love his Church? He loved it so much that He was willing to be nailed to a tree for it. How are husbands supposed to love their wives? Through sacrifice, even in suffering, and in death. If you want to see the perfect example of a husband’s love for his wife, look at a crucifix.

Christ didn’t come down from the cross, and say “Gee, my needs aren’t being met!” He didn’t say to Pontius Pilate, “You’re treating me like a dormat! Let me go!”

When we make our vows “until death do us part”, we are supposed to mean it. Christ meant it. He took his vows all the way to Calvary. I certain meant to keep my vows; I hope the OP does the same, and follows me on the Via Dolorossa. And I pray to the Lord to give me the graces, to carry out this mission.

And yes, I am fully aware of the example I am setting for my children. I hope my children can model their relationships after me. I don’t know if it will work - children today very rarely pay attention to how their parents live their lives. But I can at least show them the example - then they can decide whether to emulate it.

 

[mariciaspirit]

John 8:3-12 “And the scribes and the Pharisees bring a woman taken in adultery; and having set her in the midst, they say unto him, Teacher, this woman hath been taken in adultery, in the very act. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her? And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst. And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more. Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.”

Liberanosamalo, are you without sin?

He is still married to her and he has every right to plead his cause before God. I did not say or mean that he should try to win her back. I would not even attempt to diminish the pain of betrayal because I have been there. I am simply saying he should let God decide.

If you had cancer and the doctors said that nothing can be done to save your life would you go out and by a coffin. The ship has sailed? Or would you ask God to be merciful to you and spare your life? “And Jesus looking upon them said to them, with men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:26

We say “thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” and “lead all souls to heaven and help especially those most in need of thy mercy.” Do we mean what we say? Yet when the trials and tribulation come we pray and still try to solve the problems without really listening to God. Satan is roaming this earth more than ever and he is hitting us where it hurts the most. Family life.

The Word say he knows the plan he has for you - divorce or restoration of marriage – HE KNOWS. Doormat? “Many are the afflictions of the righteous…” Ps 34:19. As for what she is doing he said his eyes are 10,000 times brighter than the sun We do not serve a jokey (false) God. If you sow in the flesh you will reap in the flesh.:bowdown:

 

[JoeKR]

Many thanks to everyone who took the time to read and/or respond. This journey the past 4+ months has been difficult for me. I don’t know how things will end up between my wife and I, but I feel like the odds are stacked against any reconciliation of our marriage. I’ve spent countless hours reading information on other internet forums (marriage related) and in self-help books, and talking to people including a Christian counselor. Unfortunately I’m realizing there isn’t much one can do in a situation like this, other than pray to God for guidance, forgiveness, and the strength to carry on as a man of faith. There is really no “pressure” for my wife or the other man to end their relationship. There are no children involved on either side, and the other man’s wife left him back in February and has no desire to reconcile with him. My wife also tends to be much more stubborn than the average person, so once she has made a decision it is difficult at best to change her mind. They are living in a fantasy world right now. I could try an turn into the model husband but I doubt it would have any affect on things.

I know the statistics show these types of relationships (those that start as affairs) never last in the long run because they are built on lies and deceipt. But I can’t wait around forever for my wife to come back. And even if she did I’m not sure if I could ever trust her again, especially since she is involved in so many activities and travels frequently. I just wouldn’t be sane because I’d be constantly wondering where she is or who she is with. She has caused no only me, but our families and friends a great deal of pain.

At his point I’m thankful to God for some good that this situaion has brought me. I’m closer not only to my faith, but to many friends and family members. I’ve also learned a lot about life, myself, and relatinships. I feel better prepared for the future and whatever it may hold for me. I truly believe everything happens for a reason in life. One day I hope I’ll look back on all this and realize it was intended to happen for a good reason.

 

[mrpathetic]

At his point I’m thankful to God for some good that this situaion has brought me. I’m closer not only to my faith, but to many friends and family members.

Good. Now you are developing the right attitude. Ultimately, we should thank the Lord for our sufferings, for they bring us closer to Him.

Tonight, read and reflect on the book of Hosea. The Lord made him take a harlot, Gomer, for a wife. We did He do this? Did he want Hosea to simply take care of that woman? Or did He want to embarrass and humiliate poor old Hosea?

No. He commanded Hosea to do this, because it did actually serve a higher purpose. Hosea’s marriage became a symbol of the relationship between Israel and the Lord. Israel was unfaithful to the Lord, just as Gomer was unfaithful to him. But the Lord still loved Israel, just as Hosea still loved Gomer.

And Hosea never left - out of sheer obedience and fidelity. His actions inspire men, to this day, to honor their vows, and stay with their wives. The Lord’s purpose was served.

**Consider that your plight may be the same as Hosea. Will you act the same way? **

 

[dulcissima]

Joe, Sounds like you are on the right track. I think it is good to keep in mind not only the infidelity, but her treatment of you the proceeded it.

To hold up a relationship that appears to be lacking some of the essential elements of a valid marriage and insist that the abandoned spouse be chained to it in the same way that someone who was ordered by God into a marriage really does not seem to be very fair. There is a reason we Catholics are not bound to follow individual interpretations of Scripture like some posters seem to be insisting upon. We have canon law and Tribunals that will serve you well in finding out the truth. For now you are in good hands with your priest and with your counselor.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

There is a reason we Catholics are not bound to follow individual interpretations of Scripture… We have canon law and Tribunals that will serve you well in finding out the truth.

This is excellent advice. If the Tribunal determines that Joe’s marriage is valid, he may find solace in the fact that God had a higher purpose by allowing him to be afflicted with this suffering. Other people may be afflicted with cancer, diabetes, perhaps an abusive boss at the workplace - but we know that all suffering serves a good purpose in God’s plan, and just as the Heavens are infinitely above the Earth, God’s ways and God’s wisdom are infinitely above our human ways and our wisdom. If, on the other hand, the Tribunal determines that the marriage is not valid, Joe is free to walk away and even to pursue a valid marriage with someone else. At any rate, there’s no harm praying for this poor woman, who so entangled herself into Satan’s web, whether she is in a valid marriage with Joe or not.

For now you are in good hands with your priest and with your counselor.

I just want to add one thing: Joe, you need a lawyer, and you need it now. Supposed that your wife buys an SUV for her lover, and charges $25K on her credit card, guess what? You are on the hook for half of all debts occurred by your wife. You are still one legal and financial unit with your wife, even if she spends 90% of her time in another city, with someone else.

 

[JoeKR]

I really need some help here! For the past two weeks I’ve been having serious doubts about giving up on my marriage and “moving on.” I really thought it was just a phase in the whole process and I would work through it. I’m not sure why these recent feelings and thoughts have come about? But it gets even more interesting…

I spoke with my mother-in-law on Monday night about everything. She told me she has had somewhat limited contact with my wife but she gets the impression that my wife’s relationship with the other man isn’t as serious as I thought or that things have cooled down between them. For example, she said my wife told her that she was looking for jobs in a completely different city than where the other man lives, and she really doesn’t know anyone there. My MIL also said my wife told her that she thinks about what she is doing and what she wants all the time. It’s like she is having doubts about the separation and divorce. I told my MIL that I was thinking of writing my wife a love letter combined with a face-to-face talk to let her know my recent feelings and to she what she was thinking/feeling.

And last night my wife came home as usual to spend a couple nights at the house. I was in the den on the computer and watching TV, and she came in and asked if she could watch TV. Normally I just leave and go to the bedroom to read, but instead I stayed and watched TV for almost two hours with her. We even had some small talk and I played with the dog as she laughed.

To top it all off…I snooped in my wife’s belongings this morning after she left for work. In one of her notebooks I found where she was contemplating our relationship. One side had positive things, the other had negative things. And at the bottom was written “Who do you miss?” I started to cry when I saw this. At least I know she is thinking about our marriage.

I’m really torn with how to proceed. My heart tells me that I need to inform her of my feelings to work on the marriage. My biggest concerns are whether I would be able to forgive her for the affair, and if she would be willing to change some of her behaviors in order to make me comfortable and happy.

 

[mrpathetic]

To top it all off…I snooped in my wife’s belongings this morning after she left for work. In one of her notebooks I found where she was contemplating our relationship. One side had positive things, the other had negative things. And at the bottom was written “Who do you miss?” I started to cry when I saw this. At least I know she is thinking about our marriage.

I strongly advise you to stop snooping through your wife’s things. You’re probably not going to find anything new, or learn anything new about the situation. And if she finds you doing this, there will be real h*** to pay.

She may be having second thoughts about the divorce filing. But if she finds you riffling through her personal effects - well, you may never see her again.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Well, he DID find out something new.

Who cares if there is hell to pay. What more does he have to lose? At least now he has an eye into his wife’s thinking.

I have a theory about such diaries and notebooks. If someone doesn’t want them found, they take them with them and put them in a locked car trunk or something. They don’t leave them where they can be found or read unless on some level they WANT them found and read.

Trust me, I was married to a sneak, and the only useful information I ever found out about him came from snooping because everything he told me to my face was a lie.

Joe, I don’t know what to suggest except to say you try joint counselling if she is willing. If you applied for an annulment, you would have to detail all the counselling you went through to try to make the marriage work. And a counsellor’s statement would be part of the witnesses and evidence.

You have to have peace at the end of it that you tried everything. But know also that you may or may not be able to forgive, but could you ever forget? And would you tie yourself in a knot every time she went to church or off to a “meeting” or to the store, wondering if she was really seeing someone?

Only you can answer those questions about yourself.

And if she is “rebounding” from this affair, do you want to be the “rebound” until she finds someone new. Just playing devil’s advocate.

You need to talk honestly to her face to face.
Good luck. You sound like way more than she deserves right now.

 

[JoeKR]

I strongly advise you to stop snooping through your wife’s things. You’re probably not going to find anything new, or learn anything new about the situation. And if she finds you doing this, there will be real h*** to pay.

She may be having second thoughts about the divorce filing. But if she finds you riffling through her personal effects - well, you may never see her again.

As a Catholic I generally don’t agree with snooping or spying. It really just a lie or being deceitful. Believe me, I feel terrible when I do it. But I have also learned from this whole experience that married couples shouldn’t keep secrets and everything should be an open book in a committed relationship.

And just just to let you know, the most important pieces of information I have found over the past 5 months have come from snooping on my wife. Back in March I proved she was having the affair through snooping, and yes I told her i was snooping. Her response was “I can understand why you did that.”

And what I found written is NEW and very important. It wasn’t there the last time I saw the notebook, which was a month or two ago. Up to this point I really thought she wasn’t having doubts about her new life with the other man. At least now I know she is thinking about our marriage. This is important because it might change my approach to everything.