How to convince wife to go to marriage counseling?

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My wife and I are both catholic and going through serious marriage problems. I guess under civil law we are separated for the past week. I truely believe that the problems between us can be resolved and we can be happy again. She finally confronted me this past Friday and told me she wasn’t happy, and hasn’t been happy for quite some time, and that she wants to end our marriage. I know things haven’t been 100% happy and right for awhile. There has been a lack of communication on both our sides as you can see. The main reasons that she has been unhappy is that I haven’t been involved in her social life (which is extremely important to her) and I have not showed her affection when she needs it. I’m willing to do whatever I can to make changes in my life, not only to make her happy, but to make me a better caring and loving person. I know I have done wrong and I’m asking God and my wife for forgiveness. Divorce is not an option for me.

My wife has totally given up. She doesn’t think I can give her what she needs to be happy. And she has stated that anything I do now is “too little too late.” I’m working on getting her to wacth the Fireproof movie, but that is going to be difficult, at best. I also think counseling could really help. I’m going to see my priest within the next week, even if she won’t go. But I would like her to go and I’m looking for any advice anyone can offer to try and convince her to go with me. I asked her on Saturday if she had any interest in going to speak to someone at our parish about our marriage and she said she didn’t think it would be “fruitful.” I’ve also looked into Retrouvaille and it looks great, but I know she will not want to go with me.

She is very involved (several times each week with various ministires) with the Church which makes this so much harder for me to deal with. I was raised Catholic and she converted to the Catholic Church shortly after we got married. I don’t believe our problems are so bad that divorce is the answer. I don’t know how to get through to her at this point. I know she can be really stubborn at times. It is frustating for me to see how involved she is at our Church, but unwilling to try and make our marriage work. I guess she wants us to be officially separated under civil law so she make make the divorce final after 12 months.

Sorry for the long post. I could go on and on with more details and my thoughts and feelings. As you can imagine I’m feeling pretty hopeless at this point. Just talking to people and writing on these forums seems to comfort me. Prayer has also been a comfort this past week.
 
I’m sure there is more to this story. But I do know among women I talk to, and my own feelings on this are that a lot of times when women ask a husband to do something that they think is important and the man doesn’t do it… they don’t want to go to a counselor, and the man does it because the counselor says he should.

You either care or you don’t. It loses its value if the only reason you do something is because you’re told it would be a good idea by a marriage counselor. If your wife asking you didn’t mean anything to you, she already got your message.

Were you too good for her social circle? Have you stopped to think it’s embarrassing for some women to go to social events alone all the time and have to make excuses why their husband isn’t there? They see other couples there and wonder why they can’t have that in their marriage. You marry and you think you’ll never be alone at a party again or without a dance partner again, and then your husband lets you know for years that he’s not into that. So it’s humiliating.

And then you say you didn’t show her affection. Wasn’t she worthy of it? Did she initiate handholding and you pulled away? Did she try to be affectionate and you let her know you didn’t want your hair messed up? (My xh did that to me all the time. Or I’d hold his hand and he’d wipe it on his pants like I had cooties or something.)

So for years you rejected her at the most basic of all her needs as a wife… her need to express and receive loving affection.

And now you think taking her to a movie will fix it? Her feelings and wishes didn’t matter for years. But now that she’s leaving, you have seen the light? Why does it matter that she’s leaving? What was she around for? Being your maid and cook? Obviously socializing with her and showing affection wasn’t a reason to keep her. Are you afraid your image will suffer? Is that all she is?

You need to figure out why you really want her to stay before you can convince her to stay. Because from what you’ve said, it does sound too little too late. You tell us how stubborn she is. Well, how stubborn have you been to know she NEEDED affection, but you weren’t going to give it. (What were you trying to prove to her?) You knew there were serious problems for a long time. But you didn’t think they were important enough to fix years ago?

Here’s news for you… when you get married, her social life, for the most part should be BOTH your social life. You left her feeling essentially unmarried. Maybe you were willing to coast along for years because obviously all your needs were being met to your satisfaction. She even converted to your religion. What did she get out of a marriage to you?

I’m not saying walking away is a good thing for her to do, unless you have been beating her and doing other things to her which you wouldn’t necessarily tell us. But I’m just giving you the wife’s point of view. She must feel dealing with you is pretty hopeless that she would end her marriage. You’ve obviously left her alone for so long that she figures life without you won’t be missing anything.

She was your wife. You were supposed to love her like your own body, like Christ loves the Church. I don’t think she was feeling the love. Now that she’s leaving she’s precious to you?

You don’t say you have any children. That would be what I would use to convince her to at least try Retrouvaille. You both need to show that you tried everything before throwing in the towel.

Try approaching her with some humility and heartfelt apologies. Tell her she is worth fighting for. Try courting her as if you weren’t married to her. But it sounds like her dream died long ago.
 
I don’t know how to get her to go to counceling. But since she hasn’t seen the Fireproof movie why not take some idea’s from it. Ask her if she will agree to wait at least 2 months before doing anything formal, and then do some of the things that the character in the movie did.

I don’t know your situation, and maybe you’ve tried these things already. But for most women, it’s the little things that matter the most. All the little details that tell her you are attentive and listening. Like when she mentions she really likes something in passing, and you make a point to get that for her.

Good luck, I wish I had more advice for you:(
 
Joe, I can’t give you advice. I can only pray for you and your wife.
One can’t force or cajole someone who feels that things have gone “beyond the point of no return”. So often communication comes when one partner has had enough and both haven’t communicated authentically for too long, and any signs have gone unheeded. Bargaining doesn’t work well at this point.

I’ll be spending some hours on Friday in adoration after Mass and will pray for your wife and you then.

I know you are in a great deal of emotional pain and it’s very sad.
God bless you, Trishie
 
Liberanosamalo,

You made some good points and offered a lot as far as the wife’s feelings are concerned, but I have to take issue with this statement.
Liberanosamalo said:
She was your wife. You were supposed to love her like your own body, like Christ loves the Church. I don’t think she was feeling the love. Now that she’s leaving she’s precious to you?
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Not “she was his wife,” she IS his wife. I would refrain from speaking of this marriage in the past tense because it isn’t yet over. Nor will it be if his wife gets a divorce.
 
Liberanosamalo said:
I’m sure there is more to this story. But I do know among women I talk to, and my own feelings on this are that a lot of times when women ask a husband to do something that they think is important and the man doesn’t do it… they don’t want to go to a counselor, and the man does it because the counselor says he should.

You either care or you don’t. It loses its value if the only reason you do something is because you’re told it would be a good idea by a marriage counselor. If your wife asking you didn’t mean anything to you, she already got your message.

Were you too good for her social circle? Have you stopped to think it’s embarrassing for some women to go to social events alone all the time and have to make excuses why their husband isn’t there? They see other couples there and wonder why they can’t have that in their marriage. You marry and you think you’ll never be alone at a party again or without a dance partner again, and then your husband lets you know for years that he’s not into that. So it’s humiliating.

And then you say you didn’t show her affection. Wasn’t she worthy of it? Did she initiate handholding and you pulled away? Did she try to be affectionate and you let her know you didn’t want your hair messed up? (My xh did that to me all the time. Or I’d hold his hand and he’d wipe it on his pants like I had cooties or something.)

So for years you rejected her at the most basic of all her needs as a wife… her need to express and receive loving affection.

And now you think taking her to a movie will fix it? Her feelings and wishes didn’t matter for years. But now that she’s leaving, you have seen the light? Why does it matter that she’s leaving? What was she around for? Being your maid and cook? Obviously socializing with her and showing affection wasn’t a reason to keep her. Are you afraid your image will suffer? Is that all she is?

You need to figure out why you really want her to stay before you can convince her to stay. Because from what you’ve said, it does sound too little too late. You tell us how stubborn she is. Well, how stubborn have you been to know she NEEDED affection, but you weren’t going to give it. (What were you trying to prove to her?) You knew there were serious problems for a long time. But you didn’t think they were important enough to fix years ago?

Here’s news for you… when you get married, her social life, for the most part should be BOTH your social life. You left her feeling essentially unmarried. Maybe you were willing to coast along for years because obviously all your needs were being met to your satisfaction. She even converted to your religion. What did she get out of a marriage to you?
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I guess there is more to the story than what I provided in the first post. But I see what you are getting at, and I have truely realized the wrong that I have been doing.

I will be the first to admit that I am an introvert and a socially ackward person. I get high anxiety during some social event, depending on how well I know the people. Most people who know me think I am quiet and shy. I have been this way for most if not all of my life. When my wife and I first started dating were we in grad school and had plently of mutual friends. We had more free time for social stuff and I felt more comfortable because I already had a connection with some/most of the people at the events. She knew even then that I was a shy person. After finishing school we moved to a new area for jobs and eventually we both starting working full time. We no longer had the same regular group of friends that we had during grad school. We bought a home out in the country, which make it a little more difficult to do social functions. As you can imagine I have a hard time making lots of friends. I am very laid back and easy to get along with, I just have trouble talking to people and it takes me longer to build a relationship to the point where we are good friends. My wife and I have gone to many social events over the past several years, but obviously there have been many that she went to where i did not go with her. She would ask me to go, and I would be reluctant to go. She would say “ok”, and seem comfortable going alone. She never really communicated to me that it bothered her that much, but obviously I know now that it was, and that of lately she started to realize that it was bothering her. She feels like she need a different life.

We have spent many good times together though. We argue every once in a while, but generally get along very well. Since last friday, we have talked about the situation. I told her that now that she has communicated to me that the socail aspect really means that much to her, that i am willing to do my best to become more involved in that aspect of our lives. There are some social event that I truley enjoy doing with her, and the ones where I get some I anxiety i can work on it and I know I can become more comfortable in those situations, and she can be comfortable and happy too.

As far as the affection part I’m not sure what to say. I’ve shown some affection, but not nearly enough. I know I have problems with it because I am very shy, and didn’t grow up in a “touchy-feely” home. I think also that in my mind she wasn’t showing me much affection, but maybe this was a result of my lack of affection for her. We should have been communicating this to each other all along. This past weekend we BOTH admitted to this. We should have caught it sooner and worked on the problems, instead of letting it build up to the point where now everything is over.

I’m really trying to change my life for the better and trying to prove to her that I can be a good person and willing to work on our problems. I know I should have realized long along how much she means to me, but now I really do know.
 
Making her watch the *Fireproof *movie, probably won’t cause the change of heart that you are looking for, but I agree that it will open the door for conversation, but hold off on this.

However, starting by asking her to hold off on any decision for 2 months and working on the Love Dare (the book from the movie), may have more of an effect on your relationship. I would also suggest you doing the Dare as you appear to be the one who wants to work on the marriage, it is your job to remind her why the two of you fell in love in the first place. Once your marriage is on more stable ground, then it will be time to watch Fireproof. In that line, I must give a small warning that there are rumors that the church that produced these products are anti-catholic.

Be thoughtful and prayerful, do small things for your spouse. Remember your actions when the two of you were courting. After years of marriage and waking up to the same person (although sometimes fluffier) every morning, we sometimes forget that this is the person who made your heart skip a beat every time you looked at her. Then the next thing you know, you hardly speak, because your under the impression that you know everything about your spouse, their likes, their needs, etc. But we forget that even though we are adults, our thoughts, actions and needs change with the time and we are constantly evolving. I could go on forever.

My prayers,
Susan
 
Liberanosamalo said:
What did she get out of a marriage to you?

I’m not saying walking away is a good thing for her to do, unless you have been beating her and doing other things to her which you wouldn’t necessarily tell us. But I’m just giving you the wife’s point of view. She must feel dealing with you is pretty hopeless that she would end her marriage. You’ve obviously left her alone for so long that she figures life without you won’t be missing anything.
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Something has been in the back of my mind lately and it may be wrong for me to think of things this way, but here it goes:

My wife had a lot of misconceptions about the Catholic Church before she joined the Church. I’m not sure exactly why. She grew up in a family that was not religious, and I assume that she just “heard” negative things about the Catholic Church and didn’t have an open mind at this point. Once we were engaged she started attending mass with me (and I can say I “rejoined” the Church after being a non-praticer for quite some time). Since joining the Church (RCIA with baptism, communion, confirmation), she has gotten highly involved with several ministries there. Even to the point where just a couple weeks ago she was declared an exception young adult for her service to the parish. The minitries she is involved with at the parish are sort of like social events to her, and I can tell that the activities are extremely important in her life. I envy her for giving up so much of her time to volunteer at the Church, but I also think she does it for her own personal reason.

When you ask “what did she get out of a marriage to you” I like to think that I brought her to the Catholic Church and through that she has found her way into volunteering with the ministries at the parish. I can’t say for sure that this wouldn’t have happened if we hadn’t gotten married, but I like to think at least I had some impact. Please remember that her Church activites are extremely important to her.

Someone please correct me if my thought and thinking on this item are wrong in any way. This is something that I have been wanting to talk to her about, but maybe it’s not right.
 
Marriage is hard work. It requires sacrifice on both sides. Venturing outside your comfort zone for the benefit of your spouse. Your wife sounds like she would have been happy to be the social butterfly. All you had to do was show up, hold a drink in your hand and beam at her and enjoy the banter. No one said you had to dance in the center of a circle of people or bond with everyone in the room, did they? The problem with spouses who are content to let each other go off in different directions is that eventually they end up on different sides of the fence.

You weren’t a touchy feely person. Didn’t grow up in that kind of household. But if your wife did and that was her language of love, hanging onto your own disfunctional upbringing as an excuse to refuse to fulfill her needs sounds a bit self-centered.

It’s good you are talking. I don’t know what your degrees are in, or if you can find a way to postpone things for a month to see if “there is anything still there if you operate according to new rules” but it sounds like you are so stubborn that she doesn’t see any point in trying to convince YOU to change.

I’d ask her three questions and have her write the answers:
  1. In a perfect world, if I had the capacity, what are the things I could do that would make you stay and work things out? (I’m willing to post it on the refrigerator as a reminder for all time to come.)
  2. If you could believe my neglect of your needs was based on ignorance instead of malice, could you give me a chance to prove that and that I am willing to be educated in how I can fix my behavior in order to pull my weight in this marriage?
  3. List three things about me you would miss if you left me. These are the things I love most about you: (list three)
If she is willing to fill out that paper you might learn some things.
 
Schluns said:
Making her watch the *Fireproof *movie, probably won’t cause the change of heart that you are looking for, but I agree that it will open the door for conversation, but hold off on this.

However, starting by asking her to hold off on any decision for 2 months and working on the Love Dare (the book from the movie), may have more of an effect on your relationship. I would also suggest you doing the Dare as you appear to be the one who wants to work on the marriage, it is your job to remind her why the two of you fell in love in the first place. Once your marriage is on more stable ground, then it will be time to watch Fireproof. In that line, I must give a small warning that there are rumors that the church that produced these products are anti-catholic.

Be thoughtful and prayerful, do small things for your spouse. Remember your actions when the two of you were courting. After years of marriage and waking up to the same person (although sometimes fluffier) every morning, we sometimes forget that this is the person who made your heart skip a beat every time you looked at her. Then the next thing you know, you hardly speak, because your under the impression that you know everything about your spouse, their likes, their needs, etc. But we forget that even though we are adults, our thoughts, actions and needs change with the time and we are constantly evolving. I could go on forever.

My prayers,
Susan
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Susan, thanks for the prayers. I agree that it is best to hold off on the fireproof movie for now. I realize I need to start show her things (similar to those in the Love Dare) and that I really care before getting to the movie.
 
As for her getting her church involvement as a benefit of marriage to you…

No No No No No!

That’s not what I’m talking about. She’s obviously a social butterfly. And there is a place for them in the world. They make the world fun. She is a people person who gets her energy from linking up emotionally and socially with people.

Did she get any of that from you since the marriage? Or has that become a substitute for what she should be getting from you? Did she marry someone thinking she’d have a circle of friends and then once grad school ended and you moved out to the country she’s heard nothing but crickets chirping?

Are you content to just being the steppingstone for her involvement with the Church?

I’m asking, what does she get from being married to YOU? A gardening partner? Candlelight dinners? Foot massages? Someone she can confide her deepest hopes and dreams in? Someone who puts on music, pours a glass of wine and waltzes her across the kitchen floor? Someone who shares books and ideas with her? Someone who prays with her? Someone who when she looks at him across the room he knows exactly what she’s thinking?

In her volunteer work at the church is she seeing couples with good marriages who have that connection and it’s a bucket of cold water in her face to realize that you provide none of those things for her? Are you content to sit in your study on your computer while she looks elsewhere for conversation?

I’ve learned long ago that many people who trumpet their “introverted” personality as an excuse not to reach out to others really are hiding basic emotional laziness. You’re uncomfortable around other people… because they bite you or something? Do you have a fragile self image? Maybe you need to talk to someone to find out why after years of marriage you are treating your wife like she’s a stranger in the crowd. How many years have you been married that you still haven’t made any friends as a couple that you could socialize with that you are comfortable with too? Hiding behind social awkwardness as an adult is a poor excuse. Did you move out to the country so you’d be… alone? Did she like that idea? You say you are easy to get along with and laid back. Would your wife agree with that statement? Sometimes introverts come across as unfriendly. Even if you don’t want to be the center of attention, there is always a place at the dinner table for the attentive listener who can laugh and appreciate others.

I still don’t think we are seeing the whole picture here. Opposites attract. But they don’t stay together forever if there is no growth. It sounds like from what you have described if you had married a different kind of woman, she’d be involved in a full blown affair by now to find what she isn’t getting at home.

Volunteering at church is great. But if she had more to do at home with you, she might not have the time to do all that. Again, what have YOU done to make being married to you better than being single for her?

Any children? Does she want that and it hasn’t happened yet? Again… there is more to this than you’re saying.
 
Liberanosamalo said:
I’m sure there is more to this story. But I do know among women I talk to, and my own feelings on this are that a lot of times when women ask a husband to do something that they think is important and the man doesn’t do it… they don’t want to go to a counselor, and the man does it because the counselor says he should.

You either care or you don’t. It loses its value if the only reason you do something is because you’re told it would be a good idea by a marriage counselor. If your wife asking you didn’t mean anything to you, she already got your message.

Were you too good for her social circle? Have you stopped to think it’s embarrassing for some women to go to social events alone all the time and have to make excuses why their husband isn’t there? They see other couples there and wonder why they can’t have that in their marriage. You marry and you think you’ll never be alone at a party again or without a dance partner again, and then your husband lets you know for years that he’s not into that. So it’s humiliating.

And then you say you didn’t show her affection. Wasn’t she worthy of it? Did she initiate handholding and you pulled away? Did she try to be affectionate and you let her know you didn’t want your hair messed up? (My xh did that to me all the time. Or I’d hold his hand and he’d wipe it on his pants like I had cooties or something.)

So for years you rejected her at the most basic of all her needs as a wife… her need to express and receive loving affection.

And now you think taking her to a movie will fix it? Her feelings and wishes didn’t matter for years. But now that she’s leaving, you have seen the light? Why does it matter that she’s leaving? What was she around for? Being your maid and cook? Obviously socializing with her and showing affection wasn’t a reason to keep her. Are you afraid your image will suffer? Is that all she is?

You need to figure out why you really want her to stay before you can convince her to stay. Because from what you’ve said, it does sound too little too late. You tell us how stubborn she is. Well, how stubborn have you been to know she NEEDED affection, but you weren’t going to give it. (What were you trying to prove to her?) You knew there were serious problems for a long time. But you didn’t think they were important enough to fix years ago?

Here’s news for you… when you get married, her social life, for the most part should be BOTH your social life. You left her feeling essentially unmarried. Maybe you were willing to coast along for years because obviously all your needs were being met to your satisfaction. She even converted to your religion. What did she get out of a marriage to you?

I’m not saying walking away is a good thing for her to do, unless you have been beating her and doing other things to her which you wouldn’t necessarily tell us. But I’m just giving you the wife’s point of view. She must feel dealing with you is pretty hopeless that she would end her marriage. You’ve obviously left her alone for so long that she figures life without you won’t be missing anything.

She was your wife. You were supposed to love her like your own body, like Christ loves the Church. I don’t think she was feeling the love. Now that she’s leaving she’s precious to you?

You don’t say you have any children. That would be what I would use to convince her to at least try Retrouvaille. You both need to show that you tried everything before throwing in the towel.

Try approaching her with some humility and heartfelt apologies. Tell her she is worth fighting for. Try courting her as if you weren’t married to her. But it sounds like her dream died long ago.
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I understand this comes from personal experience, but I thought it was a bit harsh. From this post it would seem that the wife was ever the suffering servant and the husband was content to trod on her daily. This does happen in marriages, I’m sure, but the OP indicated that they have both admitted that their marriage lacked communication and I think that is the source of this break down. He doesn’t need further run down of his failings…he was asking for help in trying to get things back on track.

How about the 9 most important words from Mother Teresa? I WAS WRONG, I AM SORRY, PLEASE FORGIVE ME.

Kathy
 
Liberanosamalo said:
As for her getting her church involvement as a benefit of marriage to you…

No No No No No!

That’s not what I’m talking about. She’s obviously a social butterfly. And there is a place for them in the world. They make the world fun. She is a people person who gets her energy from linking up emotionally and socially with people.

Did she get any of that from you since the marriage? Or has that become a substitute for what she should be getting from you? Did she marry someone thinking she’d have a circle of friends and then once grad school ended and you moved out to the country she’s heard nothing but crickets chirping?

Are you content to just being the steppingstone for her involvement with the Church?

I’m asking, what does she get from being married to YOU? A gardening partner? Candlelight dinners? Foot massages? Someone she can confide her deepest hopes and dreams in? Someone who puts on music, pours a glass of wine and waltzes her across the kitchen floor? Someone who shares books and ideas with her? Someone who prays with her? Someone who when she looks at him across the room he knows exactly what she’s thinking?

In her volunteer work at the church is she seeing couples with good marriages who have that connection and it’s a bucket of cold water in her face to realize that you provide none of those things for her? Are you content to sit in your study on your computer while she looks elsewhere for conversation?

I’ve learned long ago that many people who trumpet their “introverted” personality as an excuse not to reach out to others really are hiding basic emotional laziness. You’re uncomfortable around other people… because they bite you or something? Do you have a fragile self image? Maybe you need to talk to someone to find out why after years of marriage you are treating your wife like she’s a stranger in the crowd. How many years have you been married that you still haven’t made any friends as a couple that you could socialize with that you are comfortable with too? Hiding behind social awkwardness as an adult is a poor excuse. Did you move out to the country so you’d be… alone? Did she like that idea? You say you are easy to get along with and laid back. Would your wife agree with that statement? Sometimes introverts come across as unfriendly. Even if you don’t want to be the center of attention, there is always a place at the dinner table for the attentive listener who can laugh and appreciate others.

I still don’t think we are seeing the whole picture here. Opposites attract. But they don’t stay together forever if there is no growth. It sounds like from what you have described if you had married a different kind of woman, she’d be involved in a full blown affair by now to find what she isn’t getting at home.

Volunteering at church is great. But if she had more to do at home with you, she might not have the time to do all that. Again, what have YOU done to make being married to you better than being single for her?

Any children? Does she want that and it hasn’t happened yet? Again… there is more to this than you’re saying.
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Liberanosamalo -

You made some good points. I’m not sure how to respond to everyhting you have written. You would probably need to meet me and my wife to truely understand everything between us, and who we are are persons. It’s hard to convery everything, espeicially the details, through the internet, and I understand that. I guess I am on this forum looking for people to talk to such as yourself, and maybe learn something. All I can say is that I know from this experience that my wife means a great deal to me and I’m committed to show her that.
 
KathyA said:
I understand this comes from personal experience, but I thought it was a bit harsh. From this post it would seem that the wife was ever the suffering servant and the husband was content to trod on her daily. This does happen in marriages, I’m sure, but the OP indicated that they have both admitted that their marriage lacked communication and I think that is the source of this break down. He doesn’t need further run down of his failings…he was asking for help in trying to get things back on track.

How about the 9 most important words from Mother Teresa? I WAS WRONG, I AM SORRY, PLEASE FORGIVE ME.

Kathy
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Kathy -

Yes, if there is one thing I could have changed years ago it would have been the communication aspect. We both went on for years indicating that everything was fine, but the in truth it wasn’t. We both admitted that we failed in this area, and I don’t think we would have ended up where we are today if we were open and honest with our feelings to each other through proper communication.
 
I don’t mean to be harsh really. And the women aren’t always the innocent parties either. If she had been the one to write here and ask what she should do, I’d give her an earful about her first responsibility is to her marriage and not every church committee, and how she should be lucky her husband wants to work things out and seems to have learned from his mistakes. Some of us were married to men who never admitted they did anything wrong.

And I would have told her that she as a Catholic who exercises moral leadership in her church she has a moral obligation to not cause scandal by divorcing her husband for frivolous reasons. If she is not being abused or cheated on or swindled or beaten, she does not have any right to just walk away from a vow made on the altar of God. And if she does so, if I were her priest, I’d remove her from any position of authority so as not to cause scandal in the parish.

Her husband wants to fix things, not end it. And so she has an obligation to keep trying.
But she didn’t write in. He did.

And I’d tell him that if she went through with it and then got a divorce and tried to get an annulment (based on the urgings of ignorant people who may tell her she has a good case for one), I would suggest he continue to live as if he was married, not date, and participate fully in the annulment process, answering all the questions honestly and detailing his attempts and pleadings to get counselling that she refused and her unwillingness to work on the marriage and that not all attempts to save it were made.

And I’d ask the husband if he’s absolutely sure that with all her socializing whether or not she hasn’t met someone else and thinks the grass is greener elsewhere.

In short, divorce is the nastiest thing you can go through. God invented death, but He abhors divorce. That should tell you something.

I have no patience for people who file for it and abandon flawed but faithful spouses who want to keep the marriage going. And I have no patience for spouses who make their husbands/wives feel irrelevant and unloved. Been there on the receiving end of that one. So I’d be mean to both of them. 😃 I’m just loveable that way. When people promise God something, they are required to love, honor and cherish and remain together till God decides its over. Don’t mean to make the OP feel he is the only one singled out here.
 
Along that line, the OP should talk to the parish priest and tell him he wants to go to Retrouvaille and how the wife won’t go to counselling. The pastor has discretion in this and can probably tell her that if she were to come to him later for help in attaining an annulment, he could not agree to help her unless she had tried everything to save the marriage.

Retrouvaille, if both participate earnestly, can really make progress in getting real honest communication going.

I’ve seen couples on the brink of divorce go and save their marriage and go on to have more children even.
 
Hi Joe,

Even if your wife won’t go to marriage counseling, I would recommend that you go to individual counseling. I think it will help you to understand what part you play in all of this and to understand what part of this is beyond your control. It may be that you were emotionally absent or it may be that your wife has such a high need for affirmation that one person simply can not make her feel the love that she needs. I’m not really seeing enough here to know which way this is even leaning toward.

I think it is a really good thing though that you are committed to working it out and that you are reflecting on what is really going on. That is a really good start.

You are in my prayers!
 
Wow, there’s some harsh stuff being tossed at this guy. Frankly, based on my experiences here, he’s getting some of the blanket “guy” treatment. It gets old.

Because he’s the guy, he’s necessarily at fault. He refuses to be her social hood-ornament in spite of the fact that he has a problem in this area. Not that she is an uncaring person who doesn’t seem to mind that her husband is horribly uncomfortable. How about asking if she made any attempt to help them establish mutual friends with a small group so that he would feel more comfortable like grad school. No, he is the guy - it’s his fault.

He should not have threatened divorce, he should have stuck to his vows. Oh, wait, never mind.

Now, to the OP.

It seems obvious that there is a huge communication gap between the two of you. Like all marriages, you each have different needs and desires. You’ve failed to nurture hers and she’s failed to nurture yours. Your at fault and so is she. It seems like you are willing to admit that to a bunch of internet strangers. Are you willing to admit that to her? In humble honesty? Can you say, “I have been a fool, and I believe that I can change - with help.”?

Can you say it to her in such a way as to make her believe you are being truthsome?

If you can, and she responds with any semblance of joint culpability, then you have the basis to go to counseling. If not, then you are probably done. You can’t make anyone care, or want to change. If she cannot see that she is 100% at fault (as are you, ironically), then I fear it’s all too late.

If you cannot humble yourself and be honest, then all the cheesy movies in the world won’t help you. Life isn’t Hollywood; happy endings don’t show up in nice two-hour segments.
 
GhostMan said:
It seems obvious that there is a huge communication gap between the two of you. Like all marriages, you each have different needs and desires. You’ve failed to nurture hers and she’s failed to nurture yours. Your at fault and so is she. It seems like you are willing to admit that to a bunch of internet strangers. Are you willing to admit that to her? In humble honesty? Can you say, “I have been a fool, and I believe that I can change - with help.”?

Can you say it to her in such a way as to make her believe you are being truthsome?

If you can, and she responds with any semblance of joint culpability, then you have the basis to go to counseling. If not, then you are probably done. You can’t make anyone care, or want to change. If she cannot see that she is 100% at fault (as are you, ironically), then I fear it’s all too late.

QUOTE]

Ghostman -

I have admitted my wrongdoings to not only the internet strangers here, but to some mutual friends at Church, and also to her. I don’t even know the one mutual friend that well. He’s somebody that I occassionallt talk to before mass starts, and he has been over to our house twice. It took a lot of courage to call and meet and talk to him and admit everything. As far as saying it to her, I have. I have never broken down and cried and sobbed like a baby so bad in my life when I talked to her this weekend and told her what an indiot, selfish fool that I have been and that I have done wrong to her. I think I have lost at least 10 pounds over the past several days becasue there has been a knot in my stomach on how I feel and I can’t eat much. My body has been beaten down and unfortunately I developed a terriable cold yesterday and am home today sick from work.

The problem is that she has also admitted that she has done some wrong and should have acted sooner, but I can tell she doesn’t feel as bad as I do. I’m fearful that if she won’t admit and correct these mistake now that she will just end up in the same situation down the road with another man.
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Frankly, you may need to confront her about another man. All those social engagements alone might have led her to someone else. Perhaps some of them were not even real social engagements, but clandestine meetings. You need to get tested for STD; her behavior smells fishy to me. Somehow I’m getting the picture of a woman who has already moved on.

Perhaps not a physical attachment, but an emotional one is to blame. Ask her to be honest with you.

Have you asked her any hard questions? Do you want to know the answers?
 
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