How to counter the following argument?

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In the Beginning everyone (Adam and Eve, the Man and the Woman) knew that ‘I AM’ was the one God, the LORD.
There was no development of religion, but ‘I AM’ walked with them (via his Angel) in the Garden, talking with them.
Another angel, taking the form of the Serpent, deceived them into scheming on how to have life in a “stand alone mode”, rather than in union with ‘I AM’, so they began to hide from the Angel of ‘I AM’ as he walked in the Garden to meet them in the cool of the day.
Since their ejection from the Garden, they continued to try to manufacture ways to seize life without the requirement of the union of reciprocal love, which is justice, wherein they would give and pour their whole life back into God in love just as He poured his whole being into them, giving them life in their union. This was the beginnings of new “religions”, new schemes to be “justified”.

If there is any “evolution” to the development of religions, they are all in an attempt develop what can only be a gift.
Into the midst of that, the LORD picked a man (Abraham), and his offspring, to set aside for His “religion”, not “developed by men”, not “a kingdom of this world” (as Jesus would describe it), a “people”, His People (whether they correctly knew him or not, as can be witnessed in a post). This Religion is from Above, and was sent to prepare the way for the Messiah, the Christ, the Son of Man, the Son of David, whose name translates into English as ‘I AM SAVING’ (Yeshuah, or Jesus). And we Catholics are in the world to be a Sight for the World to See, as we stand fast in the sufferings that the rest of the world is trying to escape, as a light for them to see that we have no fear of what can kill the body.

The development of religions not from above were all intentional; there was no self-deception involved, only selfish greed, although there is a bit of Sloth involved for not challenging these religions invented by men.

Religion is not something you “go back to” - you return to Jesus if you wish to walk with him and learn from him (by going to your Priest with contrition and asking not to be sent away empty).

John Martin
 
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Fear of death is a manifestation of our fundamental instinct for preservation. This is true. Everybody has it, religious or not, so it cannot be said it is a trick of the mind. However Christianity helps to free us from all of these worries and reveals their relative, non-absolute, nature. There is something of ours that nothing and no one in the world can truly take away from us or damage: the immortal soul.
 
Sophie111 said:
Further, Judaism was not founded on a belief in the afterlife while Christianity certainly was
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And this is my point. Perhaps I was clumsy previously. Christianity was not - and is not - founded on a “belief in the afterlife”. Christianity was and is founded on a belief in and love for Jesus Christ. And he taught us a whole bunch about life here and now, no? The Good Samaritan, the Beatitudes, the Sermon on the Mount, and on and on. For example, from Matthew 22:

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Do we also believe in a life everlasting? Definitely. Does Jesus teach us about his Father’s house, and the sheep and the goats, and the wedding party? Absolutely. Do some Christians become Christians because they’re scared of death. No question.

But for those searching and wanting to learn about Christianity and Catholoicism, I think they need to know that our faith is based on a real, no kidding relationship with, and belief in Christ and his Church.
 
TULIPed said:
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Sophie111:
Further, Judaism was not founded on a belief in the afterlife while Christianity certainly was
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And this is my point. Perhaps I was clumsy previously. Christianity was not - and is not - founded on a “belief in the afterlife”. Christianity was and is founded on a belief in and love for Jesus Christ. And he taught us a whole bunch about life here and now, no? The Good Samaritan, the Beatitudes, the Sermon on the Mount, and on and on. For example, from Matthew 22:

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Do we also believe in a life everlasting? Definitely. Does Jesus teach us about his Father’s house, and the sheep and the goats, and the wedding party? Absolutely. Do some Christians become Christians because they’re scared of death. No question.

But for those searching and wanting to learn about Christianity and Catholoicism, I think they need to know that our faith is based on a real, no kidding relationship with, and belief in Christ and his Church.
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??? Why reply me, your response has zero to do with why I said this to you.
 
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How’s it going. I have thought about this as well. There are many responses to religion from others. Often I tend to think that these are ultimately often pessimistic. Not always, but sometimes I pick up a hint of it. For me I believe it because I think it is true. It really is as simple as that. I think there is enough evidence to believe it and not doubt. Don’t get me wrong I tend to think there are some really challenging and misguided people within religions, but faith isn’t limited to the people within it. Without trying to be negative in any way here I think it is common for someone who doesn’t believe in something to criticize the person making the assertion.
This is seen in politics, psychology, the justice system, science, religion, etc. etc… If your struggling with evidence might I suggest taking a look at Howard Storm. He is a former atheist who left a university teaching job and changed his life drastically to become a pastor after having a hellish near death experience. I personally find his story and witness quite compelling.
 
In the end, I believe my comment countered the argument.

From an outsiders point regarding Christianity, remember, Christianity came from Judaism. While belief in eternal life is definitely a central facet, it has not changed the basic component of Judaism.

Some Christians theologians teach that Jesus of Nazareth only clarified the teaching of Olam HaBa (the World to Come) which is sketchy at best and is spoken of minimally in Jewish religion. If that is so, the hope held out of eternal life in Christianity is nothing less that the same promised to the Jews, the Olam HaBa. In fact, it seems to be the reference made in the Letter to the Hebrews at Hebrews 2:5:

“It is not to angels that God has subjected the world to come (Olam HaBa, in Hebrew), about which we Christians are speaking.”

If that is the case, and it likely is since Jesus is a Jewish sage and would not have been speaking outside the realm of Jewish thought, it is likely that the appeal of the afterlife came later in history to the Gentiles who were unaccustomed of thinking of death as something to be feared. Jews don’t fear death. They don’t like it, they mourn it, but they have little of the superstition that the Gentiles have. So to hear the Gospel which includes the Jewish teaching that there is no reason to fear death and perhaps Jesus’ extended teaching on Olam HaBa, the World to Come, may have caused the grand excitement over the Gospel message we hear people speak of today.

But the general message of the Gospel is not life after death, if I am not mistaken. It is the message that the Jews heard at mount Sinai–freedom by hearing and obeying the Word of God, by coming into a covenant with God that makes that possible. The longest, most everlasting of lives would be slavery if one did not have that type of freedom.

The Jews learned that there was the choice of listening to and obeying the word of humans, which lead to slavery, and listening the obeying the word of God, which lead to freedom. They chose to follow the Word of God–which for the Jews meant the Torah–and this for them is way to Freedom.

When Jesus came, he brought a similar message to the Gentiles: listen to the your own words, the words of humans, the word of sin, which leads to slavery to death, or listening to him, the Word of God, which leads to Freedom, Life. It meant not mere life forever in eternity, but Life now, free from Sin. Christians can choose to follow Jesus, the Word of God–like Jews who follow Torah, the Word of God–and find the way to Freedom.
 
Now if all you are looking for is the end reward, life everlasting, or to be comforted that you will live forever in Heaven and not burn in Hell, you probably won’t get your reward. This is about entering a covenant. It is not just about entering the Promised Land, but about realizing you are free now, even in the desert land your trek on the way to it now. Will you be satisfied with the manna you are fed now or will you complain and only think of the Promised Land as the only blessing that God gives? What about what you have now?

The Word, whether it is the Torah or Jesus, is your path to Freedom now. Do you not realize you are free from slavery today? Moses knew he would not enter the Promised Land but was to die before stepping foot into it, but did that mean he stopped obeying Torah? No. And no Jew would give up on following Torah merely because there is no reward at the end either.

Christians are no different. They don’t do it for a future reward. They have their reward already. They too have been freed. We walk together, one nation, under God. Our theological beliefs have differences here and there, we don’t pretend they do not. But for the most part we know we are fellow worshipers of the God of Abraham.We are working together to bring healing to the world as God’s instruments, as brother and sister.

Is there a reward in the end. The Jewish sages speak of Olam HaBa. Of it, we Jews just do not know. So we do not worry. If it is promised of God, then what is there to worry of. God keeps God’s promises. Christians say yes. So then I am not worried.

But do we do it because we are merely afraid of death? Well, some might choose religion because they find comfort from the fear of death. My answer to those who criticize those who do that is: So? If you get cold at night: don’t you use a blanket? If you get frightened of a plague, don’t immunized? If you are scared, don’t you seek comfort?

Not all of us who are religious do. But if some of us do, so what? What’s wrong with that? Where is it written that such a choice is morally wrong?
 
BenYosef said:
Now if all you are looking for is the end reward, life everlasting, or to be comforted that you will live forever in Heaven and not burn in Hell, you probably won’t get your reward. This is about entering a covenant. It is not just about entering the Promised Land, but about realizing you are free now, even in the desert land your trek on the way to it now. Will you be satisfied with the manna you are fed now or will you complain and only think of the Promised Land as the only blessing that God gives? What about what you have now?
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Re: Covenant
Covenants involves promises and obedience to the conditions of the promises of the covenant.
Just thinking out loud, If the OLD covenant was everything we needed, there would be zero need for a New covenant.
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BenYosef:
The Word, whether it is the Torah or Jesus, is your path to Freedom now.
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Who perfectly obeys the 613 Mosaic laws? BTW where did Moses get those laws? If there is no God then what made Moses so special to come up with those laws and people had to follow them or else?
When one screws up in this life there are laws/consequences to pay here. OTOH, If there is no after life, no heaven or hell, what good is it anyway for following those 613 Mosaic laws? Who is there to make sure those laws are followed or else?
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BenYosef:
Is there a reward in the end. The Jewish sages speak of Olam HaBa. Of it, we Jews just do not know. So we do not worry.
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Are “Jewish sages” the same as the OT prophets and psalmists etc? If so
They speak of the Holy One would have His “day” … a day of justice in which He would express His anger toward sin and visit judgment on sinners. They referred to this as “The Day of the Lord.” Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; , Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5).

AND

The Psalmist refers to this day as “The Lord is at your right hand; he will shatter kings on the day of his wrath, Psalm 110:5

AND

Daniel describes the duration of this “day” of wrath as eternal:
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2

Sounds like judgement, heaven, and hell to me
 
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Whether you have Faith in the God of the Judeo-Christian
persuasion is VERY Important! The Jews of the NT era
failed to combine what they heard(the Gospel) w/ Faith,
and so the life-giving element is MISSING.
Ask God and tell God that you want SAVING FAITH, and
maybe, just maybe the doubts that dog you will dissipate,
I pray, for Christ’s sake and for the building up of the King-
dom!!
 
We are all created by the same God; and the same God hears all our prayers despite our differences. First search for God, and if you are searching for God; you have to do something.
 
Is that a bad thing? You can acknowledge your fear and still practice religion. Beliefs are meant to benefit you in some way 🙂
 
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