How to counter the LGBT/leftist onslaught?

[jcrichton]

Hi Angel - great point.
We have many people who do that.
As a result, we no longer have a firm voice against these serious problems.
We do have to be careful about judging the speck in another’s eye and missing the plank in our own - but the idea is to be aware of both and seek to help those who do have the speck in their eye - not to let them suffer in an error based on false-compassion!

Helping someone turn away from sin - in a friendly, trustworthy manner - is the best love we can give to them. Of course, we have to do it to ourselves also. A gentle but firm approach is good. It’s very difficult to do it without actually showing anger against the person! But that’s the challenge. We have to be patient, forgiving, loving - and also unwilling to compromise about what is true, and willing to actually tell people what is a sin and what is good.

Hi, Reggie!

again, you’ve hit on many points… the first and most important deals with “self.”

Jesus stated:

20 ‘For I tell you, if your virtue goes no deeper than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never get into the kingdom of heaven. 21 ‘You have learnt how it was said to our ancestors: You must not kill;*c] and if anyone does kill he must answer for it before the court. 22 But I say this to you: anyone who is angry with his brother will answer for it before the court; if a man calls his brother “Fool” he will answer for it before the Sanhedrin; and if a man calls him “Renegade” he will answer for it in hell fire.

(St. Matthew 5:20-22)
We are accountable to God for what we think and say about ourselves and others.

Correcting others is not about dropping a narrative about how they are wrong, sinners, and are going to hell. Correcting others is offering them Christ’s alternative… this correction must be done in Love and not through false/pretense Witness–not that Jesus did not say what is good for the religious elite is good for all; actually, Jesus held His Disciples to a higher Call: Be Holy, for I AM HOLY!

So in our quest to share the Truth we cannot be judgmental nor allow emotions to cloud our judgment and purpose. Anger is never the Christian stance:

19 Remember this, my dear brothers: be quick to listen*e] but slow to speak and slow to rouse your temper; 20 God’s righteousness is never served by man’s anger; 21 so do away with all the impurities and bad habits that are still left in you – accept and submit to the word which has been planted in you and can save your souls. 22 But you must do what the word tells you, and not just listen to it and deceive yourselves.

(St. James 1:19-22)

Sadly, teaching, Truth, firmness, love/charity, and forgiveness has been confused with compromise, political correctness, and “social justice.” It is not about unrighteousness but about not upsetting the sensibilities of the sinners.

The Word of God has been sanitized, chained, and gagged… all in the name of Yahweh God’s “mercy,” “love,” “compassion,” and “justice.”

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

@TaylorDonBarret

Hey! I’m glad we’re on the same page on most of the essential aspects of this issue.

Of course, the Lord Jesus was very prudent in applying his temperament. He spoke harshly and He spoke kindly at the times when each tone was warranted. And indeed we should do the same, and we need to develop an acute evangelical intuition, to speak the truth effectively in every situation. I’m only trying to make the point that speaking the truth in love sometimes entails upsetting your neighbor.

I was actually a staunch LGBT supporter before I reverted to the faith. Like you, I care deeply for LGBT people and wish for their happiness – and most especially, I wish for them to have eternal life.

I apologize if I sounded a little harsh in my previous post. Still, I insist: We need to reject the attitude of protectionism that has come to pervade the air whenever the LGBT crowd is mentioned. We act like they’re these poor, fragile things: gotta keep them in “safe zones”, never say the word “sin” around them, or they’ll break. In truth, I think even the harshest Christian upbraiding wouldn’t even come close to the things they’re doing to Christians – getting people fired or put out of business or sent to prison, burning chapels, assaulting civilians, issuing death threats against pro-family academics, suing pastors, vandalizing property, ghost-banning Catholic pages from social media, bullying pro-family people online…

I’m not advocating for a spirit of vindictiveness. I’m only saying that LGBT peeps are not a victim group and we shouldn’t treat them like that. They’re people who are opting for a certain lifestyle, and we need to do our job and let them know that said lifestyle is wrong, and it’s harmful to its own practitioners.

So, I firmly believe we need to exercise our prophetic duty - for the sake of LGBT people themselves. Proposing Jesus as their savior is vital, but it’s not enough; after all, in our era it’s easy to profess faith in Jesus and support the slaughter of children in the womb. St. Paul himself noted that even the demons in Hell believe in Jesus, so simply believing in him won’t necessarily get you to Heaven. In the end, “Not all who call me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven.”

Is it true that God judges each man according to how he responded to Him in his heart? Yes, absolutely. Nonetheless, we should be deeply concerned that an entire generation of people is being deprived of access to Truth, because spiritual ignorance leads to habitual sin, which in turn entails an ever greater risk of eventually forfeiting one’s salvation. And we need to do something about this problem.

And we don’t even need to be like, super overbearing about it. I can talk to an openly homosexual person and tell them: “This is absolutely not an attack on your dignity as a person, but I have to tell you that the homosexual lifestyle that you’re pursuing is wrong. It’s doing you more harm than good, and I have the data to prove it if you want me to. If I tell you this, it’s because as a Catholic I care about you and I desire your well-being.” Of course, one needs to be armed with knowledge, facts, and solid arguments before approaching people in this manner – and as you rightly point out, we should strive to speak in a charitable and reasonable way. But the fact is, if I love my neighbor, I need to help him out of his misery.

Again, it all comes down to this: God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. We need to speak up and let LGBT people know the truth about their condition with this axiom in mind.

Again, I agree with basically everything you said. But it is not our job to judge those outside the Church. The message to those outside the Church is not morality, the message to those outside the Church is Christ crucified. The Gospel proclaims the love of God to sinners, and it is the love of God that draws sinners to repentance. For those who do not know Christ, messages about sin and judgment should be limited, IMO, to those areas of sin and judgment that they already understand.

If you tell an unbelieving LGBT person that they are living in sin because of their LGBT lifestyle, they will not agree with you, and their unbelief will be re-enforced because they have one more excuse for claiming that God is illogical and irrational (to them, the idea that LGBT behavior is wicked is simply absurd).

But if you tell an unbelieving LGBT person that lying, cheating, and stealing are all crimes against God - they are more likely to see the reality of their own sinfulness. They already agree that such behavior is sinful. Thus, they are more likely to see their need for a Savior if the sins you tell them about are sins they agree are sinful.

Still, the message we must proclaim is Christ crucified. It is the love of God that draws sinners to repentance. And only once they know His love could they even be expected to repent.

 

[jcrichton]

Again, I agree with basically everything you said. But it is not our job to judge those outside the Church. The message to those outside the Church is not morality, the message to those outside the Church is Christ crucified. The Gospel proclaims the love of God to sinners, and it is the love of God that draws sinners to repentance. For those who do not know Christ, messages about sin and judgment should be limited, IMO, to those areas of sin and judgment that they already understand.

If you tell an unbelieving LGBT person that they are living in sin because of their LGBT lifestyle, they will not agree with you, and their unbelief will be re-enforced because they have one more excuse for claiming that God is illogical and irrational (to them, the idea that LGBT behavior is wicked is simply absurd).

But if you tell an unbelieving LGBT person that lying, cheating, and stealing are all crimes against God - they are more likely to see the reality of their own sinfulness. They already agree that such behavior is sinful. Thus, they are more likely to see their need for a Savior if the sins you tell them about are sins they agree are sinful.

Still, the message we must proclaim is Christ crucified. It is the love of God that draws sinners to repentance. And only once they know His love could they even be expected to repent.

Hi, Taylor!

…so a sin is not a sin if the sinner refuses to accept it as a sin?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Richca]

Hello, all. I don’t know about you, but I’m outraged/terrified at the incredible aggression that we’ve been seeing from the anti-christian left over the past few years.

Here’s a quick summary of the overall trends I notice:

• The LGBT crowd is convincing the world that Christians and specifically Catholics are the villains of this story, simply because we hold to the revealed truth about sodomy and similar forms of sexual dysfunction.
• Meanwhile, the pro-abortion crowd has been quite successful promoting the claim that the Catholic Church is against women’s freedom.
• Catholics and Christians in general are being fired from their jobs, harrassed, fined, jailed, and even physically assaulted for proclaiming the truth about these issues. (See what liberals are doing to the Freedom Bus if you want a recent reminder.)
• Massive social media companies such as Google, DeviantArt, Facebook, and Twitter are deploying attrition tactics to gain more converts for these twisted ideologies on a daily basis.
• All over the world, activist pro-LGBT legislation is having our children indoctrinated into the SOGI ideology, and passing “gag laws” that impose criminal penalties on anybody who dares contradict the Rainbow Fuhrer.
• Catholic voices are being systematically ridiculed, marginalized and criminalized worldwide.

So the question is… what are we to do? How can we, as lay Catholics, come up with effective strategies or tactics to do our part in the culture wars, and fight for the Kingdom of God in the midst of this grim ideological battle?

Hello cherripeeps, I don’t have a lot of time at the moment but what comes to my mind as a suggestion for evangelization and working for the spread of the kingdom of Christ on earth is the saint called St Maximillian Kolbe who lived in the last century and was canonized by St John Paul II. St Maximillian Kolbe was a great apostle and a great apostle of our Blessed Mother Mary. I find his life and teachings very inspiring. For Fr. Kolbe, total consecration to Mary is the most perfect way to Jesus for not only personal sanctity but also for evangelization, the conversion of sinners, and the salvation of the entire world. Fr. Kolbe along with 5 or 6 other companions founded the Militia or Knights of the Immaculata of which any catholic can become a member of. It is a world wide, Church approved, association. St Maximillian Kolbe was inspired to found the Knights of the Immaculata (early 20th century) when he was studying to be a priest in Rome and which at the time the Church and its teachings were being violently attacked by freemasons. Fr. Kolbe was a conventual Franciscan (a religious order of the Franciscan Family) and he founded in his lifetime a few what he called Marytowns whose main apostolate was the printed press (newspapers, newsletters, journals, etc.) which reached a circulation of hundreds of thousands or millions during his lifetime if my memory serves me correctly from the Marytown in Poland. Some members of the Knights of the Immaculata form groups and do apostolate as a group (this is called a second degree Knight according to the constitutions St Maximillian wrote in founding the Militia Immaculata). The official web site of the Militia of the Immaculata in the USA is at the following address where one can get some information on it:

missionimmaculata.com/

Anyway, the life and teachings and work of St Maximillian Kolbe (he died a martyr of the faith in the german concentration camp of Auchwitz during WWII taking the place of another prisoner there) is what came to my mind when reading your post and I think he is a very inspiring saint and well worth the time to get to know a little about him and following his example.

God bless, Richca

 

[reggieM]

Sadly, teaching, Truth, firmness, love/charity, and forgiveness has been confused with compromise, political correctness, and “social justice.” It is not about unrighteousness but about not upsetting the sensibilities of the sinners.

Hi Angel - great points once again.
Yes, speaking the truth in love.
Also, “we can’t give what we don’t have”. I understand the challenge! We have to have the faith within us and try our best to act on it. Of course, we’re never perfect (until heaven) but that is not an excuse for refusing to offer help and guidance for people trapped in sin. Jesus showed so much courage with this. He knew He would be hated for what He said - but He didn’t flinch.
Ok, most of us (or just speak for myself) don’t have that kind of courage - but little by little it can build.

The Word of God has been sanitized, chained, and gagged… all in the name of Yahweh God’s “mercy,” “love,” “compassion,” and “justice.”

Yes, I fully agree. It’s a big mistake and the more that happens, the harder it is to actually give the fullness of God’s Word to those in need. It becomes more frightening and it will jut be ignored and avoided.

 

[IWantGod]

I think you’re terribly mistaken, friend. The world has hated the truth ever since Biblical times. Most likely, those of us who love and accept the truth will always be outnumbered by those who don’t, but the Lord made it clear that this is not a valid excuse to weasel out of fighting for the Kingdom of his Father.

A Christian heaven on earth – no, indeed, it’s not possible as long as the servants of the Evil One are out there working to ruin God’s Kingdom. But still, we are called to fight against error, misery, and injustice in this world. Indeed, the degree to which we engage in this fight during the present life shall determine the glory that God will endow us with for eternity.

I don’t care if people hate the Church. I think that the Church herself has never cared about that either. When you proclaim the truth, some people will hate you. Christ was killed in the most horrible way because the Jewish leaders of his time hated him. Like Christ, we forgive and love those who rail against us, and we go on proclaiming truth and building up the Kingdom.

I think its entirely possible to have good intentions and end up being a fascist…

I still think trying to turn God’s laws regarding human sexuality into a state-enforced ideal (]in an increasingly secular and pluralistic society) is a mistake and entirely misses the point of God’s ministry. It seems to be an attempt to create a Christian utopia. I don’t think Christ had that in mind when he called his apostles to go out and evangelize the world. Give on to Caesar what is Caesar’s.

Just because you have Christ in your heart doesn’t mean you can’t make poor decisions on behalf of the church.

It seems to me Catholics are more and more concerned with state sponsored Christianity and legalism, than actually convincing somebody of Christs love.

 

[Rau]

I think its entirely possible to have good intentions and end up being a fascist…

I still think trying to turn God’s laws regarding human sexuality into a state-enforced ideal is a mistake…

It seems to me Catholics are more and more concerned with state sponsored Christianity and legalism, than actually convincing somebody of Christs love.

Do these comments have something (examples) in mind other than objecting to SSM?

 

[IWantGod]

Do these comments have something (examples) in mind other than objecting to SSM?

What is SSM?

 

[Rau]

What is SSM?

Same sex marriage.

 

[IWantGod]

Same sex marriage.

Well that’s to be expected if the Christian standard of morality is not the legal bases on which secular laws are defined. Is that really a surprise. I don’t know why people didn’t see that coming. Oh i get it, you thought you where living in a Christian theocracy.

Its an easy mistake to make.

 

[Rau]

Well that’s to be expected if the Christian standard of morality is not the legal bases on which secular laws are defined. Is that really a surprise. I don’t know why people didn’t see that coming. Oh i get it, you thought you where living in a Christian theocracy.

Its an easy mistake to make.

could u answer my question in post #87?

PS: one doesn’t require a Christian Outlook to question the merits of state supported and endorsed same sex marriage, but it does add to motivation.

 

[IWantGod]

could u answer my question in post #87?

PS: one doesn’t require a Christian Outlook to question the merits of state supported and endorsed same sex marriage, but it does add to motivation.

Will lets ignore the Christians Moral grounds for rejecting same sex marriage

One argument that comes to mind is the idea that marriage is traditionally a union between man and women as well as being the foundation of the family unit. But this argument essentially amounts to a prejudice against gays because tradition alone does not justify rejecting a gay couples desire to be married by the state. There’s no legal grounds to deny same sex marriage on basis of tradition. The state does not recognize homosexuality as being unnatural and thus any attempt to prevent the progress of the gay community is going fail eventually.

 

[Rau]

Will lets ignore the Christians Moral grounds for rejecting same sex marriage

One argument that comes to mind is the idea that marriage is traditionally a union between man and women as well as being the foundation of the family unit. But this argument essentially amounts to a prejudice against gays because tradition alone does not justify rejecting a gay couples desire to be married by the state. There’s no legal grounds to deny same sex marriage.

Again, could u answer post #87?

 

[jcrichton]

Hi Angel - great points once again.
Yes, speaking the truth in love.
Also, “we can’t give what we don’t have”. I understand the challenge! We have to have the faith within us and try our best to act on it. Of course, we’re never perfect (until heaven) but that is not an excuse for refusing to offer help and guidance for people trapped in sin. Jesus showed so much courage with this. He knew He would be hated for what He said - but He didn’t flinch.
Ok, most of us (or just speak for myself) don’t have that kind of courage - but little by little it can build.

Yes, I fully agree. It’s a big mistake and the more that happens, the harder it is to actually give the fullness of God’s Word to those in need. It becomes more frightening and it will jut be ignored and avoided.

Hi, Reggie!

I concur with you on the courage issue; it is always difficult to take the first step towards any goal; it seems that it is much more difficult to take the Stand for Christ.

…but this is where we are.

If you get a chance check out some of the persecutions that the Catholics (and other Christians) were subjected to (especially in the 19th and 20th centuries–not so far removed and better historical accounts); children were put to death for Believing in Christ… in Mexico (aided by the US government and white supremacist) the state forged a war against the Church where even children were killed–there’s a story about a boy around the age of 10 or 12 who was killed as he shouted: “Viva Cristo Rey.”

…we have been having it good… but this is because Christians have been embracing the social gospel: “don’t judge” or “God loves you just as you are” or “no one goes to hell, because God is a good God…”

It is scary… knowing what is taking place in the culture (world culture); but what is more scary is what it is in store for those who pretend to be Christians:

6 “If, however, the sentry has seen the sword coming but has not blown his horn, and so the people are not alerted and the sword overtakes them and destroys one of them, the latter shall indeed die for his sin, but I will hold the sentry responsible for his death.”

(Ezekiel 33:6)
We are Called to Witness (Salt of the earth; Light of the world) and this is what we must do.

As you’ve stated, it takes courage… but Christ has made three things plainly evident:

28 ‘Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; fear him rather who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

(St. Matthew 10:28)

33 I have told you all this so that you may find peace in me. In the world you will have trouble, but be brave: I have conquered the world.’ (St. John 16:33)

20b And know that I am with you always; yes, to the end of time.’ (St. Matthew 28:20b)
Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I think its entirely possible to have good intentions and end up being a fascist…

I still think trying to turn God’s laws regarding human sexuality into a state-enforced ideal (]in an increasingly secular and pluralistic society) is a mistake and entirely misses the point of God’s ministry. It seems to be an attempt to create a Christian utopia. I don’t think Christ had that in mind when he called his apostles to go out and evangelize the world. Give on to Caesar what is Caesar’s.

Just because you have Christ in your heart doesn’t mean you can’t make poor decisions on behalf of the church.

It seems to me Catholics are more and more concerned with state sponsored Christianity and legalism, than actually convincing somebody of Christs love.

Hi!

…are you sure you are following the same events that I am?

…when did the Catholic Church instituted a law to force people to become Catholic?

…but the government has instituted a law to force Catholics and other Christians not only to accept the culture of death but to be active participants providing goods and services that are against our religious Belief as well as demanding that we practice our Faith in a closet or in some hole in the ground.

…look at the gender fluidity issue… how simply would that be if bathrooms were labeled: Female, Male, and Other?

If you are female you use the female bathroom; if you are male you use the male bathroom; if you are male but think of yourself as female and if you are female and you think of yourself as male, use the bathroom labeled: “Other.”

Done deal! Yet, what you have is males wanting to use the female bathrooms and vice versa… then you have these confused characters pushing the government to force religious environments to capitulate to such gender fluidity.

…heard of the Nuns that have been billed a million dollars a day for not providing services that go against their religious belief?

…it is not about Catholics forcing Catholicism on the culture; it is the culture seeking to drown God and razed Christianity from the face of the earth!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Well that’s to be expected if the Christian standard of morality is not the legal bases on which secular laws are defined. Is that really a surprise. I don’t know why people didn’t see that coming. Oh i get it, you thought you where living in a Christian theocracy.

Its an easy mistake to make.

Hi!

…can you name a day when Christians lobbied the government to go and arrest all those flaming homosexuals who were living in sin?

If you want to sleep with a goat, you can do so. What you cannot do is demand that the Catholic Church or any other Christian entity support your “choice.”

Wake up!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[mkoopman]

As the OP, I say we militate. We’re the Church Militant! That’s what we’re here for.

Look at it this way: worst case scenario, you’re killed proclaiming the truth, which would make you a martyr. How cool is that?

Same Big Blue nebulus simply introducing jargon, main index SSM, with fluidity in terms of intonations to inculcate the language. Same terrain village junk science and process philosophies that work so well for baby parts pharming. The flavors of PC love are so tasty that Jesus will surely spit them out.

Had been considering addressing matters of the virtues but the thread has gone into militating training mode and there is not enough irrigation to seed this desert. Appears to be the same cloudburst.of servers of subpeonas also. Amazing that so much government funding goes into undermining the foundations of the same government funding the research. AI is driving the car, look St. Kolbe, no hands.

Well, despite the nature of online fora it is good to know that some fact finding on militating did move forward in real life.

 

[Peter_J]

Well that’s to be expected if the Christian standard of morality is not the legal bases on which secular laws are defined.

Hi. I’m coming in late to this thread.

Same-sex-marriage is kind of an academic question in 2017, but regardless … my opposition to it was never a matter of telling them that they couldn’t do it; it was a matter of my right to believe that SSM is not true marriage.

 

[Otar_Mendes]

Hi. I’m coming in late to this thread.

Same-sex-marriage is kind of an academic question in 2017, but regardless … my opposition to it was never a matter of telling them that they couldn’t do it; it was a matter of my right to believe that SSM is not true marriage.

No one has taken away this right from you. even if you are required to issue marriage licenses as per your job description it most certainly doesn’t automatically mean you approve of and accept this marriage as a true one.

 

[reggieM]

If you get a chance check out some of the persecutions that the Catholics (and other Christians) were subjected to (especially in the 19th and 20th centuries–not so far removed and better historical accounts); children were put to death for Believing in Christ… in Mexico (aided by the US government and white supremacist) the state forged a war against the Church where even children were killed–there’s a story about a boy around the age of 10 or 12 who was killed as he shouted: “Viva Cristo Rey.”

Very good words and suggestions, Angel - thank you.

…we have been having it good… but this is because Christians have been embracing the social gospel: “don’t judge” or “God loves you just as you are” or “no one goes to hell, because God is a good God…”

It is scary… knowing what is taking place in the culture (world culture); but what is more scary is what it is in store for those who pretend to be Christians:

Yes, exactly, And it is scary because there is a big price to pay for that kind of one-hand-washes-another sort of thing. We have been having it good, but it’s a false peace. The social gospel wants us to go-along to get-along, But this creates disharmony after a while, because Christians are supposed to be teaching the truth to the world, not just live and let live. When evil is not corrected, then it grows stronger.