How to deal with extended abstinence

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NormanWithers

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I have a question to all Catholic men out there. I am currently going through extended period of abstinence. First I had 9 months of abstinence due to pregnancy, now 6 months due to breastfeeding. My wife does not want to risk another child and her cycle has not yet returned, so NFP is out of the question. She urges me to contracept with condoms saying it is ok in our situation and we even tried that once or twice but my conscience told me to stop.

So we are living as brother and sister now, sleeping in separate beds and pretty much avoiding intimate contact. That seems to suit my wife pretty well, as she is constantly tired and lack of sleep really diminished her libido. However, it is quite a struggle for me and I would appreciate any advice from men who went through similar ordeal.
 
You abstained through pregnancy? Why?

And you’ve abstained for another 6 months now. 15 months total. Wow, I feel for you.

My first suggestion is that you and your wife are not on the same page here and need to have an extensive conversation and investigation of this. She may be “fine”, but you are not, and thus your marriage will gradually suffer.

Apart from the urgent need for better communication, I’d also suggest looking further into the particular NFP method you use, as they all have protocols for the post partum period and you need to brush up on this.

Good luck.
 
NormanWithers said:
I have a question to all Catholic men out there. I am currently going through extended period of abstinence. First I had 9 months of abstinence due to pregnancy, now 6 months due to breastfeeding. My wife does not want to risk another child and her cycle has not yet returned, so NFP is out of the question. She urges me to contracept with condoms saying it is ok in our situation and we even tried that once or twice but my conscience told me to stop.

So we are living as brother and sister now, sleeping in separate beds and pretty much avoiding intimate contact. That seems to suit my wife pretty well, as she is constantly tired and lack of sleep really diminished her libido. However, it is quite a struggle for me and I would appreciate any advice from men who went through similar ordeal.
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I can’t offer a solution for you. But I am surprised that you abstained throughout the entire pregnancy. Was there a medical reason for that?
 
Not really a medical one. My wife just had terrible disposition during pregnancy and she did not feel like it. We had a history of quarrels on the subject and I decided not to push her. It was not total abstinence, we had sex few times during those 9 months. I don’t exactly remember how many but not more than four times total.

Regarding NFP. I am aware of certain method that depends on frequent breast feeding but it only applies until 4 month after birth. After that, with no menstrual cycle in sight, I was told that nothing can be done. Of course I could risk it but wife refuses to take chances.
 
NormanWithers said:
Not really a medical one. My wife just had terrible disposition during pregnancy and she did not feel like it. We had a history of quarrels on the subject and I decided not to push her. It was not total abstinence, we had sex few times during those 9 months. I don’t exactly remember how many but not more than four times total.

Regarding NFP. I am aware of certain method that depends on frequent breast feeding but it only applies until 4 month after birth. After that, with no menstrual cycle in sight, I was told that nothing can be done. Of course I could risk it but wife refuses to take chances.
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Six months after birth: LAM, as long as your wife has not any bleeding 56 days postpartum.

Sheila Kippley also has a book called the Seven Standards of Ecological Breastfeeding, that is about NFP postpartum until cycles return, beyond the 6 months of LAM. (By the way, this could be a very long time. I went 15 months after kid #1 and 18 months after kid #2. Even though my libido was low, there is absolutely zero way I would have made my husband suffer through that.) Women vary a lot in how long they go before cycles resume, even baby to baby. So if they came back pretty quick after baby #1, that doesn’t necessarily mean they will after baby #2.

There is another book that has guidelines for charting during breastfeeding that are helpful: Taking Charge of Your Fertility.

But based on your previous thread and this one, you and your wife need a counselor pronto. I read despair, depression for one or both of you, and possibly some manipulative game playing. I’m not sure what’s going on, but it doesn’t seem like either of you are handling this period, which is naturally stressful, in psychologically healthy ways. My interest isn’t in assigning blame and getting you to feel like a martyr, but trying to fix it. These are common problems and they are fixable!

God bless you.
 
I am going to pray for you and your wife to be able to communicate with each other and find a way to restore your relationship in a satisfactory way to both of you.

Memorare

REMEMBER, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly to thee, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother; to thee do I come; before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me. Amen.
 
Yes, it sounds like some sort of manipulation on the part of your wife, to a certain extent. You need to get to the root of why she is behaving this way. If you have a healthy pregnancy and the doctor doesn’t put restrictions on intimacy, there is a real “liberating” feeling about being able to have sex whenever you want, especially if you’ve been using NFP to avoid pregnancy for a while before choosing to achieve pregnancy. Something isn’t right on your wife’s part. Sleeping in separate bedrooms and avoiding intimate contact is going to put your marriage on a downhill spiral. Seek counseling from a trusted priest or therapist.
 
LAM is too unreliable for us, especially that we are after 6 months borderline. In addition, it relies on tight feeding schedule, which my wife is unlikely to follow. With our first kid cycles did not return until she completely ceased feeding. However, as you wrote, there is no guarantee that it will be the same now.

I am not sure about counseling. That is something hard to come by where I live (outside of US). Most counseling is about addiction or abuse sort of thing. Catholic counseling concentrates on pre-maritial education for couples. Some people also get counseling before divorce because some judges require it if there is no mutual consent. I don’t know any trusted priest or therapist. Therapy is not readily available here and its quality is usually very low.

I also don’t want to criticize my wife. I don’t feel like she is playing any mind games with me. She just seem to be totally disinterested in sex since she got pregnant. It was exactly the same with first child and frankly I am able to cope with it better this time. At least we don’t quarrel all the time. She says she is tired and lack of sleep is also taking its toll. I know those are excuses to some extent because she could overcome those problems if she cared enough but what can I do? Apparently she does not. It is not like we don’t talk about it. It has been discussed many times over. I am not perfect myself and I am trying to deal with the situation as well as I can. One of the reasons I started this thread.
 
We are pretty much in the same boat as you…cannot risk a pregnancy due to recovery from section…but we have good oars, thanks to God!

Pray for the grace of self control and discipline, that is one way to deal with it if you can’t do nfp. We cannot do nfp due to exclusive breastfeeding. Our German priest told us, “gebet nicht bett” meaning “prayers not bed” ( in German it sounds nice and rhythmic) is what brings couples closer, more understanding, happier, satisfied…it has been hard for us too, especially in the beginning, but it is a sweet suffering now. And we are glad we have something to offer.

Plus you can use this time to do other things together or develop other things, enhance some others, connect in other ways, etc.

All the best, praying for you!
 
NormanWithers said:
Catholic counseling concentrates on pre-maritial education for couples. Some people also get counseling before divorce because some judges require it if there is no mutual consent.
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Surely therapists who counsel couples at the start of their marriages and at the end might have some good insights for couples somewhere in between those extremes?

PS LAM is not the only NFP option during breastfeeding. Other methods have allowances and rules for this phase too. It can be hard, but there is usually some allowance for intimacy in this time. I think you guys need to review this…if your wife is willing.

If she is not willing, revisit the counselling idea.
 
You mention in your other thread that your wife is utterly exhausted and also possibly depressed. Then you say here that she is tired but “could overcome those problems if she cared enough”.

What things are you doing to help her? I am in the throes of new motherhood myself, and while I knew it would be exhausting I never quite understood just how much. I can imagine it is that much more exhausting with multiple children. Sleep deprivation isn’t something you just “overcome” if you care enough. The thought of another baby right now terrifies and overwhelms me too, although we are very new parents. My husband and I both agree on that though, so there are no complaints from him about abstinence. Your struggle is certainly real and needs to be addressed, but consider anything and everything you can do to make her days and nights with the kids a little bit easier.

Also, if you think your wife might be depressed, encourage her to seek treatment. It doesn’t have to involve medication, but there are medications that are safe while breastfeeding.

There are also protocols for NFP while breastfeeding with the various methods. Marquette is nice because you use a monitor for added peace of mind. Also, there is the option of ceasing breastfeeding so that her cycles return.
 
@Lorelei12
I might have not been clear enough. Statement about overcoming problems was about pregnancy. I am well aware that having almost no sex during pregnancy is quite rare and if it happens it is due to medical condition. That was not the case with us. She just was not into it.

Currently we can’t have sex due to breastfeeding, so the situation is different. Of course she could stop, so that we can resume normal NFP routine but she won’t. Discussing this is not really productive. And believe me, I am not the kind of man who just watches tv when his wife struggles. Lets just put stereotypes aside.
 
Spend more time with hobbies, friends, exercise, anything to get you out of the house and not thinking about this stuff. But all healthy activities.
 
NormanWithers said:
@Lorelei12
I might have not been clear enough. Statement about overcoming problems was about pregnancy. I am well aware that having almost no sex during pregnancy is quite rare and if it happens it is due to medical condition. That was not the case with us. She just was not into it.

**Currently we can’t have sex due to breastfeeding, so the situation is different. **Of course she could stop, so that we can resume normal NFP routine but she won’t. Discussing this is not really productive. And believe me, I am not the kind of man who just watches tv when his wife struggles. Lets just put stereotypes aside.
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This is NOT true.

You are choosing to not have sex while your wife breastfeeds. It is a choice. Either your wife is making it, you are, or you both are, but it is a choice.

The book I linked to in my first response to this thread address how one can chart while breastfeeding. It is trickier, but possible.

You sound like you are very close to giving up. There have been many ideas posted on this thread but for some reason nothing is possible. As I said before, this is not right. Why can’t you trust your parish priest? Make an appointment with him, see what he has to say, and I would suggest that as long as nothing he says contradicts Church teaching, you try what he says.

To better connect with your wife, you might try a book like The 5 Love Languages. Even if you feel like you’re doing everything in the world for your wife, it may not be something she intuitively responds to. You can ask her, “Honey, what would be the best thing I could do to show you I care?” If she gives you any kind of non-sarcastic answer, *do that thing. * Preferably many times. Then ask her again. Gradually build a list of things you know she appreciates and do those things, even if you think they are silly. If she gives you a sarcastic answer, keep being helpful in other ways, without expecting accolades for doing it, and then repeating the question every once in a while until she knows you mean it.

You need a support network, too. Do you have friends and family? A babysitter so once a month or so you and your wife can have an afternoon or evening away? Does your wife need housekeeping help? Is there room in the budget for that? Does your wife have outside friends?
 
NormanWithers said:
@Lorelei12
I might have not been clear enough. Statement about overcoming problems was about pregnancy. I am well aware that having almost no sex during pregnancy is quite rare and if it happens it is due to medical condition. That was not the case with us. She just was not into it.

Currently we can’t have sex due to breastfeeding, so the situation is different. Of course she could stop, so that we can resume normal NFP routine but she won’t. Discussing this is not really productive. And believe me, I am not the kind of man who just watches tv when his wife struggles. Lets just put stereotypes aside.
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It appears your wife has been using her whole pregnancy, from conception to feeding the baby to avoid sex. You should at least sleep together with some cuddling at night to express love.
You both should get professional advice.
 
@pensmama87
Yes, I am close to giving up trying to make my wife want sex. Of course she could try other NFP methods or could give up breastfeeding or perhaps do countless other things that are in her power. However, I can’t make her do anything against her will. She won’t learn any method because she is comfortable with status quo and considers other things more important.

I started this thread to ask about how to endure not improve my situation. Believe me, I have tried some advices given here already. This is second child not first and all those problems were also present after first pregnancy. I talked, argued, tried to convince her, threatened, increased my share of domestic chores, tried being nicer. All this to no avail. She understands what I am going through but considers other things more important. Even if she promises to do something about it, she quickly reverts to old behavior. This is pointless and frustrating.

I don’t have any support network. I can’t talk to anybody IRL because this kind of problem is considered private in my country. Since I started a family I gradually lost contact with almost all my friends and most of them are single anyway. I do have a budget for hiring babysitter but my wife does not want it. However, it is not like we don’t have any help. Grandparents take care of older son two times every week for almost entire day. Even if that happens thought of being intimate never crosses my wife’s mind. She won’t go to see a doctor for her depression. I know this might sound as I am making this all up but that is how things are. At this point I don’t see a way out. Only thing I have not tried is counseling but I am really afraid that it might get things worse instead of better.

Abstinence is my only options now and that is why I asked how to deal with it. I can only hope that things will improve once breastfeeding is over.
 
Norman, does your wife’s avoidance of sex arise only during and after pregnancy, or is it her normal situation? What was her attitude prior to first child and in the years prior to second pregnancy?
 
I am so sorry your family is going through this difficult situation, because ultimately, as you only too well, it affects the entire family.

It has been my experience that separate bedrooms don’t help a marriage, even one when the couple is currently abstaining. There are situations where the couple chooses to do it rather than divorce, but I have never heard of it leading to better intimacy in the future. Sharing the bed, blankets and a bit of contact helps the couple not lose physical familiarity with one another. I hope it’s not too late for you to share a bed again.

I’ve been pregnant, depressed etc, but just as it is important to the well being of the family to take care of the kids, etc, it is still important to tend to one’s spouse, and one’s own mental health, for the well being of the kids and spouse, and ultimately one’s self.

It sounds as if you’ve spoken to her over and over about this, but I just wish she could understand that addressing these things are one of the kindest ways of loving the children, it does not take away from the children.

Can you think of anyone at all that she might listen to about this situation, or speak to about it. I really feel for you. I have experienced long periods of abstinence due to health issues, depression of my spouse etc. It’s not easy, can make both parties feel very lonely and isolated.

I will keep your family in my prayers.
 
truetofaith said:
It appears your wife has been using her whole pregnancy, from conception to feeding the baby to avoid sex. You should at least sleep together with some cuddling at night to express love.
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If he’s really been abstaining for 15 months then it might be a near occasion of sin if he does that. I know it sure as heck would be for me.
 
@Rau
She was fond of sex before our first child, became totally disinterested after first pregnancy, went back to normal shortly before second one and now disinterested again. It is like roller-coaster ride with her but it also gives me hope for the future - she will eventually get back to normal 🙂

@schaeffer
Separate bedrooms are actually my idea. This helps me avoid sins against purity and generally makes me less frustrated with our situation. It might hurt us in the long run but so far it works.
 
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