How to deal with extremely noisy children during Mass?

[Cat]

Everyone thinks they know how to raise children–other people’s children, that is.

There are children who are very high-spirited, and there are children who are more placid. Often, the “quiet” children that you see in Mass are those placid children who really don’t wiggle or giggle much. They are so easy to bring to Mass.

But don’t get the idea that it was something the parents did. Often the parents of these children did nothing other than luck out when they pooled their genes.

I had one of each–a lively daughter and a placid daughter. To all who think that parents should be able to control their children in Mass, I think you would change your mind if you could spend a half-hour with my daughter back when she was little. (She’s grown now, and a delightful person.) The pastor used to call her “energizer bunny.” She was just full of it, and none of it was defiant or sassy. She was just full of energy.

Thankfully we attended a church with an excellent nursery back then (Protestant), and she did very well there. When she got older, my husband and I gradually introduced her to the worship service, making sure that she knew the hymns in advance so that she could sing along, and explaining everything that was happening (in very quiet whispers). Eventually she was fine sitting for the entire two hours of Protestant worship service.

I think that we all need to consider the possibility that there may be something more going on than just parents who are not stepping up to discipline their children. Unless you actually get to know the family, you can’t always discern this just by looking at them. (e.g., perhaps one of the children is an adopted child of a crack-addicted mother–these children are very difficult to control). Or perhaps there are marital conflicts and the couple isn’t doing well enough to be able to work together to adequately discipline their children (BTW, a couple in this situation really needs to be at Mass, and perhaps the priest knows this, and he is hinting to those who raise the issue, but he can’t come out and tell them directly what the situation is all about).

I honestly don’t think there’s a lot that anyone can do when there is a big noisy family attending their Mass. Offering to help is a nice idea, but many parents will not allow people they don’t know from Adam to touch their children, and I don’t blame them. I think that the priest has made the right call–he can’t say or do something that would cause them to stay away from Mass-their eternal souls are at stake here!

So my suggestion to those who are annoyed by the noise is to either attend another Mass, or work hard on developing an ability to shut out all distractions.

And I also think that it would be wise for all of us to not accuse parents of doing a crummy job of disciplining their children or instilling respect unless we know the entire situation.

 

[Chatter163]

It’s how parents raise their children. I attend the EF Mass, and there are numerous large families with as much as 8 to 10 children. Somehow they manage to get their children to remain quiet during Mass without loud toys. Most don’t even bring toys. They sit there in their pew and “read” their children’s missal.

Same here.

 

[Sandalwood]

Everyone thinks they know how to raise children–other people’s children, that is.

There are children who are very high-spirited, and there are children who are more placid. Often, the “quiet” children that you see in Mass are those placid children who really don’t wiggle or giggle much. They are so easy to bring to Mass.

But don’t get the idea that it was something the parents did. Often the parents of these children did nothing other than luck out when they pooled their genes.

I had one of each–a lively daughter and a placid daughter. To all who think that parents should be able to control their children in Mass, I think you would change your mind if you could spend a half-hour with my daughter back when she was little. (She’s grown now, and a delightful person.) The pastor used to call her “energizer bunny.” She was just full of it, and none of it was defiant or sassy. She was just full of energy.

Thankfully we attended a church with an excellent nursery back then (Protestant), and she did very well there. When she got older, my husband and I gradually introduced her to the worship service, making sure that she knew the hymns in advance so that she could sing along, and explaining everything that was happening (in very quiet whispers). Eventually she was fine sitting for the entire two hours of Protestant worship service.

I think that we all need to consider the possibility that there may be something more going on than just parents who are not stepping up to discipline their children. Unless you actually get to know the family, you can’t always discern this just by looking at them. (e.g., perhaps one of the children is an adopted child of a crack-addicted mother–these children are very difficult to control). Or perhaps there are marital conflicts and the couple isn’t doing well enough to be able to work together to adequately discipline their children (BTW, a couple in this situation really needs to be at Mass, and perhaps the priest knows this, and he is hinting to those who raise the issue, but he can’t come out and tell them directly what the situation is all about).

I honestly don’t think there’s a lot that anyone can do when there is a big noisy family attending their Mass. Offering to help is a nice idea, but many parents will not allow people they don’t know from Adam to touch their children, and I don’t blame them. I think that the priest has made the right call–he can’t say or do something that would cause them to stay away from Mass-their eternal souls are at stake here!

So my suggestion to those who are annoyed by the noise is to either attend another Mass, or work hard on developing an ability to shut out all distractions.

And I also think that it would be wise for all of us to not accuse parents of doing a crummy job of disciplining their children or instilling respect unless we know the entire situation.

I understand where you are coming from but I do know these people. It’s a small church and many of us work together. The woman has flat out said at work, that she doesn’t care what the priest or anyone else says, she wants her kids ‘entertained’ and quiet toys “don’t entertain them” She said her kids are cute and that people should find them funny and cute. That’s why there’s such an issue with how to make the Mass environment good for everyone. Everyone should be there but we also should be able to hear Mass.

 

[Sandalwood]

I’ve even talked with the mother about the damage some of the toys are doing to the pews and she said it wasn’t her problem.

I didn’t even know how to respond to that…

 

[Cat]

I’ve even talked with the mother about the damage some of the toys are doing to the pews and she said it wasn’t her problem.

I didn’t even know how to respond to that…

I wouldn’t know how to deal with a difficult person like this. I don’t have the chutzpah.

I don’t think that the personality flaws that you describe will be easily eliminated by someone, even a priest, merely speaking with her.

To me, the only realistic possibility is that someone will befriend her and her family, grow close to her, and eventually “earn” the right to be able to counsel her about her personality flaws and help her to moderate them.

This could take months, but it would certainly be the most productive and charitable way to deal with the difficult family.

I just can’t see that a showdown in the lobby, or even in a neutral place, would be productive. I think, based on your description of this family, that such a “showdown” would cause this family to become angry, and they would act on their anger by not only staying away from Mass, but also spreading the word all around town that your parish is “bad.”

 

[MissRose73]

It sounds like a no win situation if you say something or not. Yes, we should be charitable towards our neighbors but at the same time, we can only take so much of noise & disruption. Perhaps, meeting privately with your parish priest might help and hope he addresses the family privately, or better yet have part of the homily about children at Mass including need to keep them reasonable quiet, etc.

I don’t mind families with young children attending Mass. But parents need to teach them from a young age, perhaps with lots of reinforcement and repetition to ensure good behavior plus staying reasonably quiet.

I’ve been to some Extraordinary Form Masses, and there were some larger families with youngsters ranging from infants to older children to teens by the looks of them. But I did not hear one bit of noise from anyone older than a preschooler at Mass. Several of the school age (maybe preschool/kindergarten age too) kids had kids’ missals with them but no toys. Those who had older siblings did their best to model their good behavior and actions. The toddlers and infants that may have cried/had tantrums were taken to the back of the church, calmed down in some way then brought back a few minutes later.

 

[Cat]

It sounds like a no win situation if you say something or not. Yes, we should be charitable towards our neighbors but at the same time, we can only take so much of noise & disruption. Perhaps, meeting privately with your parish priest might help and hope he addresses the family privately, or better yet have part of the homily about children at Mass including need to keep them reasonable quiet, etc.

I don’t mind families with young children attending Mass. But parents need to teach them from a young age, perhaps with lots of reinforcement and repetition to ensure good behavior plus staying reasonably quiet.

I’ve been to some Extraordinary Form Masses, and there were some larger families with youngsters ranging from infants to older children to teens by the looks of them. But I did not hear one bit of noise from anyone older than a preschooler at Mass. Several of the school age (maybe preschool/kindergarten age too) kids had kids’ missals with them but no toys. Those who had older siblings did their best to model their good behavior and actions. The toddlers and infants that may have cried/had tantrums were taken to the back of the church, calmed down in some way then brought back a few minutes later.

I think that the phenomenon of well-behaved children at the EF Masses occurs because of a combination of nature and nurture.

First, as I mentioned earlier, certain people are born with a much more placid, calm spirit and temperament. I’m guessing that a lot of these people who are Catholics end up in the EF Mass because it is more orderly and quiet than many OF Masses. And of course, these people produce children who inherit their tendency to calmness and quietness.

That’s the “nature.”

Second, I’m guessing that families who attend the EF Mass have a family dynamic that involves a lot of time spent with the children, rearing them from the day of conception to be quiet and peaceable, especially in the Very Presence of the Lord Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.

That’s the “nuture.”

I’m NOT saying that OF families are full of loud, party-loving, energetic bundles of nervous energy! But I do think that many OF families do tend to be more lively, and have a lifestyle that includes a lot of activities, many of which involve making noise and moving around. This certainly describes our family, both when our children were still living at home, and continuing now that our children are grown up.

And I’m also NOT saying that OF families do not spend time with their children, or take the time and make the effort to discipline them. Of course they do. But it’s a different dynamic. Less “quiet.” More “on the run.” More hilarity, light-heartedness, fun-loving, and freespiritedness.

And these different family dynamics will definitely influence the behavior at Mass. A family that is used to sitting quietly and being calm will behave that way during Mass, only more so. A family that is constantly on the run, constantly chatting and moving around and making noise, will have a more difficult time de-compressing and sitting quietly and calmly during a Mass or any quiet occasion.

Yes, I know, these are generalizations, and for every “quiet” EF family, there is a noisy, jolly EF family! And for every lively OF family, there is a peace-filled, solemn family!

The point is that BOTH kinds of families, not just the EF families, discipline their children and teach basic respect and decorum during Mass. It’s just easier and more natural for the “quiet” families to be quiet during Mass.

 

[Exorcist]

I think those who high-energy kids would often choose not to attend the EF Mass because of the judgmental atmosphere that is palpable at many of them.

Sometimes it’s also cultural. In Mexico it’s quite common to treat very little kids like little kings and queen. They can do no wrong up to a certain again. Some such kids treated in this manner really tear up our church from time to time.

 

[Seeker1961]

It’s how parents raise their children. I attend the EF Mass, and there are numerous large families with as much as 8 to 10 children. Somehow they manage to get their children to remain quiet during Mass without loud toys. Most don’t even bring toys. They sit there in their pew and “read” their children’s missal.

That was our experience back in the “dark ages”. Nobody came to Mass with toys or Cheerios-not even crayons and coloring books. We had our children’s missals, and I was also allowed to bring my catechism once I started school to get in a little extra study.

My great grandmother would spin in her grave if she saw they way kids behave. We weren’t even allowed to turn our heads away from the altar when she was there with us! I can still feel her fingers on the top of my head turning my focus back where it belonged!

 

[Sandalwood]

That was our experience back in the “dark ages”. Nobody came to Mass with toys or Cheerios-not even crayons and coloring books. We had our children’s missals, and I was also allowed to bring my catechism once I started school to get in a little extra study.

My great grandmother would spin in her grave if she saw they way kids behave. We weren’t even allowed to turn our heads away from the altar when she was there with us! I can still feel her fingers on the top of my head turning my focus back where it belonged!

I’m always picking up cereal off the floor. Why do parents bring food to church for the kids. man, my parents would NEVER have let us bring food, toys, or anything else to church! We had to sit and listen. I raised my kids that way too. Food was for breakfast before or lunch afterwards, not as a pacifier for keeping them quiet! I did let my children bring a soft toy to hold when they were just a baby but that was it.

lol! Your Great Grandmother had it right I believe!

 

[Cat]

That was our experience back in the “dark ages”. Nobody came to Mass with toys or Cheerios-not even crayons and coloring books. We had our children’s missals, and I was also allowed to bring my catechism once I started school to get in a little extra study.

My great grandmother would spin in her grave if she saw they way kids behave. We weren’t even allowed to turn our heads away from the altar when she was there with us! I can still feel her fingers on the top of my head turning my focus back where it belonged!

But don’t you see?

Back then, all of society in the U.S. supported the kind of behavior from children that you are describing. EVERY one and EVERY place expected this kind of decorum from children. It was as though children had many, many parents, and every one of them expected the same behavior, and were ready, willing, and able to punish a child who did not adhere to the societal standard.

Children back then were constantly and consistently reinforced in a certain behavioral norm.

But here’s what everyone has to accept, like it or not (and most don’t like it)–we don’t live in those times now.

In 2012 in the U.S., there is very little reinforcement for parents who are trying to instill proper etiquette into their children.

Almost EVERY one and almost EVERY place is full of confusing, contradictory, and inconsistent expectations for children. Many places and people reward the kind of noisy, motion-filled behavior from children that is a bane at Mass or any quiet affair (e.g., in a fine restaurant). A child can be told one thing by his/her parents, and then go to another place and be told something totally different by a friend’s parents. And then the school teacher or the pastor or the policeman or the sports coach can tell them something totally different–poor kids! They are beset on all sides by a myriad of behaviorial expectations!

And then there’s the influence of television and other media. The children are given the message from birth that they should be loud, lively, and constantly on the go. And of course, they should be little wiseacres, ready with a zinger for their parents or anyone who upsets them.

Even if you try, you can’t get away from it. Some parents try to “shelter” their children, only to have their children experience culture shock when they are finally forced to emerge from the parental cocoon. Some parents move to Outer North Dakota, but now that’s booming!

Frankly, I am amazed that anyone turns out OK in this cacaphony.

We can’t keep looking back and longing for the good ol’ days. We have to figure out new ways to rear good children.