How to Deal With Orthodox Friend

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GloriaDei

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After becoming Catholic, I’ve had intense pressure not just from my Protestant family (practically everyone related to me), but also especially from a good friend of mine, without which I would have never left Protestantism.

He has never backed down from trying to destroy any foundation the Catholic Church may have: from the Filoque, to Honorius, to the growth of Protestanism out of Catholicism, to using unleavened instead of ‘risen’ bread in Mass, Crucifixes focusing on Christ death more than His resurrection, etc.

The main thing that I’m struggling to answer, though, is how to defend V2. From just about every viewpoint I can see, the Catholic Church changed everything V1 and the Council of Trent declared. Whereas the Orthodox were condemned as schismatics before V2, they are now not even to be ‘converted’ to Roman Catholicism (so my friend takes this to mean that his church is the ‘Church’, is licit, and thus has no need to feel any calling to Catholicism if V2 Catholicism says his ‘Church’ is valid.

Before V2, Popes didn’t form get-togethers and worship with pagans and heretics. That is contrary to all that seems to be called for in a Christian’s life. We ought to be beyond even entertaining the Satanic. Modernism has overtaken the Catholic Church, even to this day, and I don’t know where to fall except to Sedevacantism to be consistent with the true Tradition that is more ancient than V2, or to admit, if Sedevacantism is false, that Orthodoxy is absolutely true.
 
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Friends respect each other.

It sounds as if this person is not your friend.
 
Or is pointing out that all outward appearance of the Catholic Church shows unholy fruit. A good friend doesn’t let another friend go to Hell if he can help it. I’m not claiming that I’m going to Hell for not being Orthodox, but that, from his point of view, that’s how he sees it, kind of like my Protestant family
 
I have family members who are committing what, with intent and knowledge, would be mortal sin every day. I love them, they have intelligence and they understand what the Christian teaching is on the big sins. There is literally no reason to for me to rail at them that they are “going to hell”.

Same for my Protestant family members, they do not rail at me that I am going to hell.

We love and respect each other.

I pray that you will find some friends with whom you can have mutual respect and love.
 
It’s because of not taking a firm stand on the Truth that so many have bought into the relativistic spiritism that is so rampant today. If the Catholic Church is the Church of Jesus Christ, that is not something to ignore, but something to bring to others’ attentions. If the Orthodox church, Presbyterian church, or Ethiopian church is the true Church, that too is important to pass on.

That said, I cram none of this down anyone’s throats, but I can feel where his motives may be grounded in love, not hate.
 
*Eastern Orthodox individual, but V2 was what almost made me not even consider becoming Catholic when I was Protestant.

What is your interpretation of what precipitated at Vatican II?
 
GloriaDei said:
The main thing that I’m struggling to answer, though, is how to defend V2.
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I’m not sure why you feel the need to defend anything at all.

Friends do not attack and tear down their friends. I think you are quite wrong about this person being your friend and have misplaced loyalty to him.
GloriaDei said:
From just about every viewpoint I can see, the Catholic Church changed everything V1 and the Council of Trent declared.
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The Second Vatican Council didn’t change a single thing.

Not one doctrine.

As for any disciplines that may have changed after VII, it was not VII that changed them. The Church has the authority to do so, and has exercised that for 2000 years.

And Vatican II naysayers act as if nothing in the liturgy, traditions, and cultural practices of the Church changed at all before VII, which is a total fabrication.
GloriaDei said:
Whereas the Orthodox were condemned as schismatics before V2, they are now not even to be ‘converted’ to Roman Catholicism (so my friend takes this to mean that his church is the ‘Church’, is licit, and thus has no need to feel any calling to Catholicism if V2 Catholicism says his ‘Church’ is valid.
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You misunderstand VII— or perhaps have not actually read any documents— if this is your impression of ecumenism.

And, the recognition of the Orthodox Churches as true particular Churches is ancient, certainly predating VII.
GloriaDei said:
Before V2, Popes didn’t form get-togethers and worship with pagans and heretics.
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Nor do they do so now. You seem to be quite confused.

Have you read the VII documents on inter religious dialog?
GloriaDei said:
Modernism has overtaken the Catholic Church, even to this day, and I don’t know where to fall except to Sedevacantism to be consistent with the true Tradition that is more ancient than V2, or to admit, if Sedevacantism is false, that Orthodoxy is absolutely true.
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You’ve certainly been infected by whatever websites you’ve been reading. I hope you are able to overcome this nonsense.
 
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What about the Papel Encyclicals that seem to indicate that pagans and non-Christians are following the true God? Nostra Aetate seems to be straight up New Age idealogy posing as Christianity
 
GloriaDei said:
He has never backed down from trying to destroy any foundation the Catholic Church may have:
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Friends respect each other’s faith. I’d suggest you re-think whether this guy is really your friend.
Then you can spend the time you’ve been wasting on arguments with him, on learning what the Church really teaches.
 
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I chose to have him as a friend. Without him, I would have never left the Presbyterian church, and even to this day, we do much outside of just debating. However, my main problem is him flooding my email inbox with all these things that ‘disprove’ the Catholic Faith. I’m fine with being around people with strong opinions, even hostile ones, mainly because they help me build up my defense of the topic at hand: I’m just struggling to find any refutations of the points he’s making from any Catholic apologist. He’s very well educated, knows Church history extensively, and I learn much from him, but I have to weed out the good from the bad.
 
As St Paul did in Acts 17?

You Athenians, I see that in every respect you are very religious. For as I walked around looking carefully at your shrines, I even discovered an altar inscribed, ‘To an Unknown God.’* What therefore you unknowingly worship, I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and all that is in it, the Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in sanctuaries made by human hands,h
 
All popes of the modern era have prayed for peace with other religious leaders.
It is disheartening to see criticism of Assisi over and over. If it weren’t for St. Francis and his peacemaking with Muslims there would be no presence of Christians in the Holy Land today.
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Nostra Aetate is New Agey? Do you know how conciliar documents are written? With multiple theologians and bishops going over each sentence? Praying and studying for months? Revision after revision? And only then approval by the college and the pope? Your statement is beyond absurd; and perhaps a violation of the terms of the forum.

Maybe the college of bishops, the periti, and the supreme pontiff all made a mistake and published a conciliar declaration that was somehow wrong. Also, Nostra Aetate was published in 1965, and the New Age movement wouldn’t occur until the 1970s.

Pray for peace,
Deacon Christopher
 
Which Orthodoxy? They are NOT unified, even among themselves. Look it up and tell your friend that they might just back off and show some respect, as they are destroying the trust that exists between you.

Notice also that their attitudes are almost indistinguishable from Protestants - IMO this stems from an attempt to justify separation.
 
GloriaDei said:
Whereas the Orthodox were condemned as schismatics before V2, they are now not even to be ‘converted’ to Roman Catholicism (so my friend takes this to mean that his church is the ‘Church’, is licit, and thus has no need to feel any calling to Catholicism if V2 Catholicism says his ‘Church’ is valid.
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The Council Vatican II was held between 1962 & 1965.

In 1965, the Pope & the Greek Orthodox Patriarch officially lifted the Excommunications of 1054 ad.

It makes sense, that since the Excommunications are officially lifted now, that the Orthodox are no longer considered schismatics & as a result now conversions are not longer supposed to be pursued from one another. If the Excommunications hadn’t been lifted, then it would be confusing. But they were lifted.
 
The New Age did not just pop out of thin air: it was steeped in Freemasonry and Modernism, which was trying to make Christians indifferent to false religions, rather than upholding the Truth over and above the lies of Satan
 
GloriaDei said:
Before V2, Popes didn’t form get-togethers and worship with pagans and heretics.
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Popes have gotten together for Prayer services with pagans & heretics, but is prayer really an act of authentic “worship”?

What is the Church’s definition of “worship”? In Protestant circles singing is considered “worship” - which is confusing. It’s confusing when different denominations use the same word, but have a completely different meaning for that word.

My understanding, and I could be mistaken, is that as Catholics, and as Orthodox, it’s our Celebration of the Eucharist (actually receiving Jesus in the Eucharist into our bodies) which is our only true “worship” & as such non-Catholics/non-Orthodox are excluded from Holy Communion & why Catholics & Orthodox are both forbidden from receiving communion in Protestant Churches.
 
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It is unlawful for the faithful to assist in any active manner, or to take part in the sacred services of non-Catholics.” (1917 Code of Canon Law, Canon 1258, Paragraph 1.)*
 
GloriaDei said:
It is unlawful for the faithful to assist in any active manner, or to take part in the sacred services of non-Catholics.” (1917 Code of Canon Law, Canon 1258, Paragraph 1.)*
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Is canon law dogma now?
 
A multi-denominational or inter-religious prayer service isn’t a “sacred service” of a Non-Catholic.
 
GloriaDei said:
It is unlawful for the faithful to assist in any active manner, or to take part in the sacred services of non-Catholics.” (1917 Code of Canon Law, Canon 1258, Paragraph 1.) *
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I’m wondering how this jives with Canon 844? The Church allows us to receive the Eucharist in Orthodox Churches. Wouldn’t that be taking part in a sacred service?

ZP
 
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