How to deal with rude comments from *some* Orthodox people

[wynd]

Ask your friend to refrain from attacking the Catholic Church. If he or she continues after you ask them multiple times, personally I would end the friendship. They may not respect your faith, but they should respect your wishes to not attack your beliefs.

Having been in a similar situation, this is how I dealt with it. When I became Orthodox, several Catholics who I thought were my good friends couldn’t handle it and became quite nasty towards me. Cutting those people out of my life was painful but necessary.

 

[Nine_Two]

One of my friends is converting to Orthodoxy, and I seem to be receiving quite some abuse for being Catholic, constantly being called a “Papist” a “heretic” and always condemning the Eastern Catholic Churches…some comments I can’t even write on here because they are so horrible. So I’m wondering if any of you who may have (had) this problem and how you have dealt with it?
I thought Catholics and Orthodox had some kind of foundation built on mutual love and understanding

Your friend may just be making jokes and doesn’t realize how offensive they are. Tell them to stop.

A lot of neophytes sometimes take an extreme attitude toward other Christian faiths. Hopefully as they learn more about the Orthodox faith (stuff that can only be learned by living it) this attitude will subside.

 

[Seraphim73]

I’ve seen a few negative comments from Catholics towards Orthodox on the internet, but not many. On the other hand, I’ve read pages and pages of negativity from Orthodox toward Catholicism.

It seems to me that in general Catholics are very respectful of their Eastern Orthodox brethren, but the respect is less often reciprocated.

Then you haven’t looked in the right places my friend. That being said you shouldn’t be surprised at Orthodox beliefs. I know that Catholicism has heretical beliefs. I know that the Catholic Church is in schism from us. I also know you love God and the Theotokos with all your heart. I believe there is grace in Catholicism. I would kiss the Pope’s hand or any other Catholic bishop for that matter. And I’m not alone in that belief. That being said it’s not for the benefit of either of us to paper over our differences. I’ll leave you with two quotes. One from St Theophan that I always take when thinking or dealing with heterodox Christians. The other from the monks of Mount Athos. A little harsh but prudent I think.

“You ask, will the heterodox be saved… Why do you worry about them? They have a Savior Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins.” - St Theophan

"Most Holy Father and Despota, in human terms, by means of that joint declaration Roman Catholics have succeeded in gaining from certain Orthodox recognition as the legitimate continuation of the One Holy Church with the fullness of Truth, Grace, Priesthood, Mysteries, and Apostolic Succession.

But that success is to their own detriment because it removes from them the possibility of acknowledging and repenting of their grave ecclesiology and doctrinal illness. For this reason, the concessions by Orthodox are not philanthropic. They are not for the good of either the Roman Catholics or the Orthodox." - **Letter from Mount Athos to the Ecumenical Patriarch **

 

[Wassermann]

Then you haven’t looked in the right places my friend. That being said you shouldn’t be surprised at Orthodox beliefs. I know that Catholicism has heretical beliefs. I know that the Catholic Church is in schism from us. I also know you love God and the Theotokos with all your heart. I believe there is grace in Catholicism. I would kiss the Pope’s hand or any other Catholic bishop for that matter. And I’m not alone in that belief. That being said it’s not for the benefit of either of us to paper over our differences. I’ll leave you with two quotes. One from St Theophan that I always take when thinking or dealing with heterodox Christians. The other from the monks of Mount Athos. A little harsh but prudent I think.

“You ask, will the heterodox be saved… Why do you worry about them? They have a Savior Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins.” - St Theophan

"Most Holy Father and Despota, in human terms, by means of that joint declaration Roman Catholics have succeeded in gaining from certain Orthodox recognition as the legitimate continuation of the One Holy Church with the fullness of Truth, Grace, Priesthood, Mysteries, and Apostolic Succession.

But that success is to their own detriment because it removes from them the possibility of acknowledging and repenting of their grave ecclesiology and doctrinal illness. For this reason, the concessions by Orthodox are not philanthropic. They are not for the good of either the Roman Catholics or the Orthodox." - **Letter from Mount Athos to the Ecumenical Patriarch **

So you’re suggesting your personal beliefs are reasons to be rude? Orthodoxy has a terrible inferiority complex with regard to the Catholic Church in terms of church size, wealth, political influence/power and worldwide prestige. While there are many other issues (some of which are actually important) it’s these temporal issues that produce envy which I believe make many Orthodox continue to burn with hatred for the Catholic Church.

A similar sort of envy afflicts some Eastern Catholics with regard to the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. Many carry huge loads of envy which can precipitate some very negative feelings. On the other hand many Latin Rite Catholics have no idea that the Eastern Catholic Churches even exist and have very limited understanding of “Greek Orthodoxy” which is also not a healthy situation.

 

[Peter_J]

That being said it’s not for the benefit of either of us to paper over our differences.

Agreed. That sound more like something the Anglicans would want to do.

 

[Nine_Two]

Orthodoxy has a terrible inferiority complex with regard to the Catholic Church in terms of church size, wealth, political influence/power and worldwide prestige.

If your evidence for this is the use of the word “heretical”, then are you suggesting that Catholics have an inferiority complex toward Protestants?

Many Catholics see us as being against them because we disagree with them, and openly condemn us for “anti-Catholicism” in this regard.

Seraphim was responding to someone who claimed they saw little anti-Orthodox material on the web, while Orthodox posters supposedly spew it all the time. Meanwhile you accuse all of Orthodoxy of having “a terrible inferiority complex” because he answered frankly.

This entire forum has an anti-Eastern (not just Orthodox) bias (among a few others). Some of the venom that gets spat out is disgusting. I understand this is a Latin Catholic forum, so I’ve come to accept that is how things are, but when I see posts claiming it is a one way street, and then replies like yours supporting it I have to wonder if people are just purposely blind to it.

 

[Peter_J]

anti-Eastern (not just Orthodox)

Sadly, I believe there’s some truth to this. Although, I think a better description would be that there is a bit of a “ghetto mentality” wrt Eastern Catholics.

 

[howirenic]

With regard to Eastern Catholics, I am often reminded of the lyrics to a hip hop song by Murs (don’t worry, these lyrics are not indecent in the least):

Whether Chocolate or Vanilla
Or ya somewhere in between
Like cappuccino, mocha, or a caramel queen
Rejected by the black, not accepted by the white world
And this is dedicated to the dark skin white girls

I am sort of surprised that this thread has posters accusing their coreligionists of being envious (which is a sin, of course) and harboring negative resentments towards the One True Holy Catholic and Latin Church.

We Orthodox, however, should naturally see Eastern Catholics as dirty traitors who have nestled up to the papal bosom like trained chihuahuas.

(In case it wasn’t evident, this post was in jest. )

 

[Seraphim73]

So you’re suggesting your personal beliefs are reasons to be rude? Orthodoxy has a terrible inferiority complex with regard to the Catholic Church in terms of church size, wealth, political influence/power and worldwide prestige. While there are many other issues (some of which are actually important) it’s these temporal issues that produce envy which I believe make many Orthodox continue to burn with hatred for the Catholic Church.

A similar sort of envy afflicts some Eastern Catholics with regard to the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. Many carry huge loads of envy which can precipitate some very negative feelings. On the other hand many Latin Rite Catholics have no idea that the Eastern Catholic Churches even exist and have very limited understanding of “Greek Orthodoxy” which is also not a healthy situation.

Was I rude? I didn’t intend to be. If size and influence are your measure the Muslims have you beat by quite a bit.

 

[guanophore]

Sour priest forbids bashing of other faiths, especially the faith we came from. If you become Orthodox, or Roman Catholic or whatever because you hate your current church you are converting for the wrong reasons

Seems like a “sour” priest would do just the opposite!

 

[Peter_J]

I had the same thought.

 

[TimothyH]

One of my friends is converting to Orthodoxy, and I seem to be receiving quite some abuse for being Catholic, constantly being called a “Papist” a “heretic” and always condemning the Eastern Catholic Churches…some comments I can’t even write on here because they are so horrible. So I’m wondering if any of you who may have (had) this problem and how you have dealt with it?
I thought Catholics and Orthodox had some kind of foundation built on mutual love and understanding

He is not your friend. A real Christian friend would not do that.

-Tim-

 

[chimo]

I’ve seen a few negative comments from Catholics towards Orthodox on the internet, but not many. On the other hand, I’ve read pages and pages of negativity from Orthodox toward Catholicism.

It seems to me that in general Catholics are very respectful of their Eastern Orthodox brethren, but the respect is less often reciprocated.

I would not say they (the Catholics) are more respectful for respect has to do with the acknowledgement of knowing what the other can pass on to you to increase your own knowledge. It is a fact that the majority of Catholics do not know the Eastern Orthodox Church. Their knowledge of the Orthodox is quite incomplete and surprisingly insufficient to even to understand how to get into a relationship with this Church. You need common ground to appreciate the similarities and differences of each Church and both Churches are in need of correction to change their attitudes of each other so that this common ground will lead to their unity. If you really want to point why both Churches are very disrespectful of each other is simply this attitude of thinking my Church is above the other Church! No Church is ever above the other and if we really think of the other Church as a place where I will learn to become a better Christian this unity will blossom into its fulfilment.

 

[chimo]

So you’re suggesting your personal beliefs are reasons to be rude? Orthodoxy has a terrible inferiority complex with regard to the Catholic Church in terms of church size, wealth, political influence/power and worldwide prestige. While there are many other issues (some of which are actually important) it’s these temporal issues that produce envy which I believe make many Orthodox continue to burn with hatred for the Catholic Church.

A similar sort of envy afflicts some Eastern Catholics with regard to the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. Many carry huge loads of envy which can precipitate some very negative feelings. On the other hand many Latin Rite Catholics have no idea that the Eastern Catholic Churches even exist and have very limited understanding of “Greek Orthodoxy” which is also not a healthy situation.

They (the Orthodox) do not burn with hatred for the Catholic Church. It is sad that it seems to come out like it does. Yet I do understand the Orthodox Church in some of their responses to the Catholic Church and while I do not condone it I do understand it. The Catholic Church needs to step back a bit and come to understand it as well. There is this burning love the Orthodox have for their Church and it is the same burning love the Catholic has for their Church. Why don’t we discover that burning love which each Church has for themselves and found out more why this burning love exists even when the other Church can be so different than the one we are in. Fundamentally it comes to give each other the credit they deserve for managing their Church to exist for over 2000 years and still continues to exist. If we really only learn to praise each other like we praise ourselves we will forge this unity without any obstacles.

 

[RyanBlack]

I entirely agree.

 

[Peter_J]

I entirely agree.

Me too.

Perhaps the reason that some think Orthodox are much more uncharitable toward Catholics than Catholics are toward Orthodox is an underlying one-size-fits-all kind of thinking. I could be wrong, of course, but I’ve gotten the impression that many Catholic think that, if your attitude toward me isn’t exactly like my attitude toward you, than there must be something wrong with your attitude (e.g. being anti-Catholic).

 

[SyroMalankara]

Also, much of the criticism from both toward the other should not be directed toward individual’s and their personal experience of faith, rather it should be the system that can be critically analyzed.

Of course there are individuals of amazing faith in both Catholic and Orthodox Churches, as well as individual protestants. When I criticize “the protestants”, although it may seem like an attack, I mean to focus my criticism toward the protestant system not the person. I have no idea about an individual’s personal relationship with his Maker and where he stands. On the other hand, I’ve heard protestants say individuals are “in heaven” or “in hell” based on their personal standards (usually whatever they happen to agree with).

 

[wynd]

Me too.

Perhaps the reason that some think Orthodox are much more uncharitable toward Catholics than Catholics are toward Orthodox is an underlying one-size-fits-all kind of thinking. I could be wrong, of course, but I’ve gotten the impression that many Catholic think that, if your attitude toward me isn’t exactly like my attitude toward you, than there must be something wrong with your attitude (e.g. being anti-Catholic).

I think the general attitude among Catholics is that since being Catholic is (in their eyes) such a logical outcome and foregone conclusion of studying history, that if you’re not Catholic you can’t possibly have real logical reasons for remaining outside the RCC and must therefore be “anti-Catholic” (whatever that means). So a Catholic defending his faith against Protestant accusations is fraternal correction, but an Orthodox defending his faith against Catholic accusations is “anti-Catholic” or “polemical” or “vitrolic” or any of the many colorful terms we see thrown around on this forum.

 

[dvdjs]

There is of course a profound difference between the attitude of the Catholic church to the Orthodox and vice versa. The Catholic church recognizes the existence of a schism but also recognizes a degree of agreement on faith that enables our welcoming Orthodox to communion in Catholic churches. The CC has no skin in the game of proclaiming heresy in the Orthodox faith. The OCs on the other hand, deny communion to Catholics - at least officially . And, while some Orthodox are very ecumenical, Orthodoxy does not exclude calling Catholics as heretics. It is interesting that there appears to be far more acceptance of non Chalcedonian Orthodox, even though there are Ecumenical Councils that require excommunication of Oriental Orthodox, and no such councils exist to excommunicate Catholics. I think it is fair to conclude that something other than the differences in faith is at work in these relationships.

I don’t think that charges of anti-Catholicism or polemicism can often be traced simply to disagreements between what Catholics and Orthodox believe. More frequently they arise in discussions in which Orthodox commentors misrepresent genuine Catholic teachings and When posters refuse correction on actual Catholic teachings, but instead insist on adhering to their own misrepresentations - which support differences in faith - then the charges arise, and they are not unwarranted.

 

[howirenic]

I don’t think that charges of anti-Catholicism or polemicism can often be traced simply to disagreements between what Catholics and Orthodox believe. More frequently they arise in discussions in which Orthodox commentors misrepresent genuine Catholic teachings and When posters refuse correction on actual Catholic teachings, but instead insist on adhering to their own misrepresentations - which support differences in faith - then the charges arise, and they are not unwarranted.

The pendulum swings both ways. I don’t really care for the attitude of “we Catholics are so tolerant but those Orthodox are a bunch of meanies who call us bad names…while we’re at it, they are also a bunch of ethnic losers who reject Christ’s appointment of Peter.”

Fortunately, this is not the prevailing attitude, as most Catholics don’t know enough about the Orthodox to form a misinformed opinion of them.

And my original point is that the problem of disunion lies in all camps. We don’t understand each other. We don’t speak the same language. We have Eastern Catholics who, with the best intentions, claim to have “solved” the schism and treat those who haven’t as prejudiced and unenlightened. Then we have Latin Catholics who talk about those Eastern Catholics as if they were wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Meanwhile, Oriental Orthodox and Oriental Catholics continue to be marginalized in any discussions of unity. Or they’re used by Catholics of any apologetic persuasion to prove that Rome is right because there are more ethnic groups there than there are in Eastern Orthodoxy.

But again, this is not the prevailing attitude as most of us would just like to get on with our respective lives and think the best of our neighbors. That’s not going to help with reunion either, but I feel this ignorance is much less detrimental than the false accusations we hurl at each other.

And for the record: mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa. I’m sure I’ve misrepresented Catholics when I have to respond to people’s “Oh, so you’re like a Catholic?”. For the record, I love the Roman Catholic Church and was heavily considering it during the beginning of my journey to Christianity from Judaism.

Ultimately, I could not honestly become Catholic, just as I’m sure many Catholic converts could not have honestly become Orthodox. I get it. We’re led in different ways and we read different things. Is that so hard to understand?

Still, I pray for our union and I firmly believe the only way to it is to get rid of all this animosity and subterfuge. To be honest in charity and love. We have a lot to work out and making brash generalizations about each other (by the way, the statements I were making of particular groups only reflect those particularly vocal members that I have met online; I do not perceive this animosity between us at large) is not the way to solve anything.

I’m sure my words, as the words of those far greater than I, will continue to fall on deaf ears, or will be listened to now, only to be negated later when someone encounters a rude person outside their own communion.