How to deal with rude comments from *some* Orthodox people

[dvdjs]

The pendulum swings both ways…
… the problem of disunion lies in all camps.

In the past and distant past, perhaps, but in the present there is the key point that, whatever some individual or another says, the CC itself says that EOs are welcome to communion. Disunion no longer has a foundation as far as the CC is concerned.

 

[howirenic]

In the past and distant past, perhaps, but in the present there is the key point that, whatever some individual or another says, the CC itself says that EOs are welcome to communion. Disunion no longer has a foundation as far as the CC is concerned.

So because the Catholic Church has decided that our differences aren’t enough to warrant separate communions, we are in the wrong for disagreeing with them?

Believe me, it’s nice that Latin Catholics have changed their attitudes towards Eastern Christians in the last century or so, but you can’t just say you’ve made amends and then attribute any negative reactions to us being a bunch of sourpusses. The whole conflict is way too ingrained in both of us to be dissolved by just one side deciding that things are magically over.

This whole “ball’s in your court now” business obfuscates the issue. Especially when there are still some Traditional Catholic groups who disagree with allowing Orthodox to commune in their churches.

By all means, let’s all be more charitable, and Orthodox can learn from the Catholics in that regard. But let’s not pretend that we’ve wiped our hands clean of the issue because we proclaimed something that the other side just doesn’t agree to. Speaking as an Orthodox Christian, we are not in communion and so we should not commune with each other. Any Orthodox bishops, barring extraordinary circumstances, would forbid his faithful from communing at a Catholic church.

We should love each other and strive for union, but not with this attitude of “well, I’ve done my part.” Maybe these Catholics who think we Orthodox are a bunch of sourpusses and complainers should investigate why we protest at their so called “reunion” so much.

 

[Peter_J]

The pendulum swings both ways. I don’t really care for the attitude of “we Catholics are so tolerant but those Orthodox are a bunch of meanies who call us bad names…while we’re at it, they are also a bunch of ethnic losers who reject Christ’s appointment of Peter.”

Fortunately, this is not the prevailing attitude, as most Catholics don’t know enough about the Orthodox to form a misinformed opinion of them.

And my original point is that the problem of disunion lies in all camps. We don’t understand each other. We don’t speak the same language. We have Eastern Catholics who, with the best intentions, claim to have “solved” the schism and treat those who haven’t as prejudiced and unenlightened. Then we have Latin Catholics who talk about those Eastern Catholics as if they were wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Meanwhile, Oriental Orthodox and Oriental Catholics continue to be marginalized in any discussions of unity. Or they’re used by Catholics of any apologetic persuasion to prove that Rome is right because there are more ethnic groups there than there are in Eastern Orthodoxy.

But again, this is not the prevailing attitude as most of us would just like to get on with our respective lives and think the best of our neighbors. That’s not going to help with reunion either, but I feel this ignorance is much less detrimental than the false accusations we hurl at each other.

And for the record: mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa. I’m sure I’ve misrepresented Catholics when I have to respond to people’s “Oh, so you’re like a Catholic?”. For the record, I love the Roman Catholic Church and was heavily considering it during the beginning of my journey to Christianity from Judaism.

Ultimately, I could not honestly become Catholic, just as I’m sure many Catholic converts could not have honestly become Orthodox. I get it. We’re led in different ways and we read different things. Is that so hard to understand?

Still, I pray for our union and I firmly believe the only way to it is to get rid of all this animosity and subterfuge. To be honest in charity and love. We have a lot to work out and making brash generalizations about each other (by the way, the statements I were making of particular groups only reflect those particularly vocal members that I have met online; I do not perceive this animosity between us at large) is not the way to solve anything.

I’m sure my words, as the words of those far greater than I, will continue to fall on deaf ears, or will be listened to now, only to be negated later when someone encounters a rude person outside their own communion.

Thank you for posting this. As you said, the pendulum swings both ways – e.g. I don’t care for the way that Orthodox are spoken of on this forum much of the time, but I likewise know how difficult it is for Catholics to get a fair shake on an Orthodox forum.

 

[Estevao]

I grew up in a town with a lot of reformed, so I read some Calvin and found such a sure knowledge that he was wrong that the anti-catholic comments I got didn’t affect me as much. I guess I would start reading Palamas if I were being heckled by the Orthodox (not saying the two theologians are the same) to make sure I was comfortable in the religion I was in.

 

[howirenic]

I grew up in a town with a lot of reformed, so I read some Calvin and found such a sure knowledge that he was wrong that the anti-catholic comments I got didn’t affect me as much. I guess I would start reading Palamas if I were being heckled by the Orthodox (not saying the two theologians are the same) to make sure I was comfortable in the religion I was in.

St. Gregory Palamas is venerated as a saint in Byzantine Catholic churches, and Pope Saint John Paul II has called him a saint and a great theologian [source].

To compare him to Calvin, even with your disclaimer, is offensive to many different parties, including, I’m certain, some Latin Catholics.

I understand you did not mean to insult St. Gregory, but I urge you to use your words more carefully, with regards to any saint.

By all means, read the polemical writings of some of our contemporary “scholars” if their anti-Catholic views somehow make you feel better.

 

[Estevao]

St. Gregory Palamas is venerated as a saint in Byzantine Catholic churches, and Pope Saint John Paul II has called him a saint and a great theologian [source].

To compare him to Calvin, even with your disclaimer, is offensive to many different parties, including, I’m certain, some Latin Catholics.

I understand you did not mean to insult St. Gregory, but I urge you to use your words more carefully, with regards to any saint.

By all means, read the polemical writings of some of our contemporary “scholars” if their anti-Catholic views somehow make you feel better.

I’m sorry I thought this was the non-catholic religions forum, I ought to have spoken more carefully.

 

[Peter_J]

I grew up in a town with a lot of reformed, so I read some Calvin and found such a sure knowledge that he was wrong that the anti-catholic comments I got didn’t affect me as much. I guess I would start reading Palamas if I were being heckled by the Orthodox (not saying the two theologians are the same) to make sure I was comfortable in the religion I was in.

, I ought to have spoken more carefully.

Yes you should have.

But, leaving aside the rough edges of your post, I think you hit upon a good point. Calvinism is obviously wrong (for purposes of this thread anyhow … I realize that isn’t obvious to everyone, particularly Calvinists ) … Ditto for Zwinglism and Pentecostalism. But when Catholics encounter Orthodox, each may feel threatened by the other because they aren’t accustomed to meeting other Christians who aren’t obviously wrong.

 

[dvdjs]

So because the Catholic Church has decided that our differences aren’t enough to warrant separate communions, we are in the wrong for disagreeing with them?

Believe me, it’s nice that Latin Catholics have changed their attitudes towards Eastern Christians in the last century or so, but you can’t just say you’ve made amends and then attribute any negative reactions to us being a bunch of sourpusses.
…

This whole “ball’s in your court now” business obfuscates the issue.

We should love each other … not with this attitude of “well, I’ve done my part.”

Maybe these Catholics who think we Orthodox are a bunch of sourpusses and complainers should investigate why we protest at their so called “reunion” so much.

Not really sure to whom this post is directed, or the thoughts are attributed, but none of this can be drawn from what I have written here. Straw men. But if people would like to study the past, I would recommend Fr Robert Taft - in Orthodox constructions of the West - and Fr. David Bently Hart - in The Myth of Shcism. I think that both agree that a good step forward would be to develop a better common understanding of history that is purged of polemicisms.

 

[Alveus_Lacuna]

…the CC itself says that EOs are welcome to communion. Disunion no longer has a foundation as far as the CC is concerned.

And while on one hand this can certainly be interpreted as charitable, on the other it can be a slight-of-hand that undermines our autonomy and seeks to trivialize our differences.

We see the differences as substanital, and this is just one more instance of not being taken seriously.

I truly hope it is done in love and respect, but I can’t help but have suspicions.

 

[Alveus_Lacuna]

Calvinism is obviously wrong (for purposes of this thread anyhow … I realize that isn’t obvious to everyone, particularly Calvinists ) … Ditto for Zwinglism and Pentecostalism.

Hasn’t the Latin church embraced the charismatic movement as authentic?

 

[SyroMalankara]

Hasn’t the Latin church embraced the charismatic movement as authentic?

The Latin Church, as well as some Eastern hierarchs (including Orthodox), have embraced SOME charismatics as possibly authentic.

 

[howirenic]

Not really sure to whom this post is directed, or the thoughts are attributed, but none of this can be drawn from what I have written here. Straw men. But if people would like to study the past, I would recommend Fr Robert Taft - in Orthodox constructions of the West - and Fr. David Bently Hart - in The Myth of Shcism. I think that both agree that a good step forward would be to develop a better common understanding of history that is purged of polemicisms.

You’re right to suspect that the post was not directed at you, and I wasn’t aware that we were formally debating. I was describing attitudes that I had encountered (some coming from Latin Catholics), and the impetus for that was your post.

I admire both of the scholars that you mentioned and I agree that common understanding without polemicisms is the ticket. That is all.

 

[Peter_J]

And while on one hand this can certainly be interpreted as charitable, on the other it can be a slight-of-hand that undermines our autonomy and seeks to trivialize our differences.

In and of itself, Catholic recognition of Orthodox sacraments is a simple fact. If you look at it in turns of, say, apologetics on Internet blogs or anything like that, then something entirely different might emerge, but I don’t place much importance on that.

By way of comparison, Anglican recognition of Catholics sacraments is a simple fact, and I don’t have any problem with it – notwithstanding my discomfort when Anglicans gave me “looks” (or so I perceived) when I was at an Anglican liturgy and didn’t go up for communion.

 

[Discerning13]

Just go to any Orthodox blog or forum site and you’ll see just how much they hate the Catholic Church. They really don’t give up any chance to bash on the Holy Mother Church. It’s sad… Just last night I was on a social media thread, my friend was talking about how he was sent to a YMCA protestant church event where they were dancing and being silly. A mutual Orthodox ‘friend’ started saying all kinds of colorful things insisting that it was a Catholic Mass in an attempt to be funny…

 

[howirenic]

OK. It’s been decided. I hate you guys!

 

[Peter_J]

OK. It’s been decided. I hate you guys!

Hold on, I need to find my “Catholic hater” stamp so I can stamp your forehead.

 

[howirenic]

Hold on, I need to find my “Catholic hater” stamp so I can stamp your forehead.

I would prefer “Defender Against Ultramontanists” but I will defer to your wisdom.

 

[wynd]

If you REALLY want to see some nice comments, check out the comments section of any traditional-leaning Catholic blog. These forums are tame in comparison.

 

[TimothyH]

In my mind there is a difference between discussing points of doctrine and disparaging another because of their faith.

It doesn’t take a PhD in theology to figure it out. Christian gentlemen don’t call other people names. It’s as simple as that.

-Tim-

 

[PatrickC]

Just tell your friend to keep it to himself. I’m friends with plenty of people who aren’t necessarily even Christian. It doesn’t come up because we try to be respectful of each other. It’s pretty simple.