How to defend against the argument 'religion is the cause of wars'

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One comment here…Our Lady of Fatima said that wars are the punishment for sin.

A young lady did some research on a secular forum regarding this topic, and she pointed out it was the civil state that caused the most deaths.

Most people have died under communism, however, specifically under the Soviet Union and China. Part of the KGB disinformation was to keep the focus on America as the enemy of the world.

I continue to pray for the conversion of Russia…because she is in the middle between east and west. Ironically, as it was written not too long ago, that through the prayers Fatima, ironically it could be Russia more than any other country who would help diffuse the world’s tensions. Russia is a wealthy country in terms of natural resources. One of Its past problems has been the lack of proper management in its own wealth. Russia is now working to draw on and develop its own resources.

Christ alone is the Light of the world to the world whose inhabitants have walked in darkness. And yes, true religion re-unites us with our common humanity with one another. The only true and lasting solution to the world’s problems is Christ.
 
Eric_Peter said:
As the title suggest, how do you defend against this argument to the atheist?
Just curious how CAF will defend it.
Because in another forum (my local country forum), I’ve seen a lot of argument of the atheist, and one of the most common used argument is
‘Religion is the cause of wars. When two people from different religion disagreeing with each other, they start to force their beliefs on others, and eventually they fight, and then it leads to war’.

They did not specify which war but I don’t think they are ignorant of the Crusades (Christianity vs Muslims), the current on going Israeli-Palestinian war (my country is pro-Palestinian, after all it’s a Muslim country), and even my local country issue where due to the local issue of the word ‘Allah’, eleven churches, a Catholic school, a Sikh temple, two mosques and two Muslim prayer rooms so far have been hit by arson and vandalism attacks, as well as throwing a pig head into a muslim mosque.

These have really convinced the atheist that religion is the source of war and they believed religions should be removed for world peace.

How do you defend against this claim?
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explain the political problems behind the Crusades and the Israel-Palestine war, and then i generally say, plus Atheistic regeimes and political wars have killed more people in the past 100 years then religion has in the past 2000 years-

Nazi Germany-Fascist Regeime, 2million or so Jews +other religions killed in the Holocaust,

Stalins Soviet Union- around 20 million people, all because they didn’t agree with the Communist regeime, and communism by definition is Atheistic

WWII- purely political war caused by the fascist/nazi regeimes, the accepted overall deathtoll is around 50 million

WWI- again another political war circa 37 million dead,

okay so, sofar political wars and atheistic regeimes caused 109 million deaths in the 20th century, well the early part atleast, I haven’t included the later half of the 20th century, and the 21st century.
 
Eric_Peter said:
As the title suggest, how do you defend against this argument to the atheist?
Just curious how CAF will defend it.
Because in another forum (my local country forum), I’ve seen a lot of argument of the atheist, and one of the most common used argument is
‘Religion is the cause of wars. When two people from different religion disagreeing with each other, they start to force their beliefs on others, and eventually they fight, and then it leads to war’.

They did not specify which war but I don’t think they are ignorant of the Crusades (Christianity vs Muslims), the current on going Israeli-Palestinian war (my country is pro-Palestinian, after all it’s a Muslim country), and even my local country issue where due to the local issue of the word ‘Allah’, eleven churches, a Catholic school, a Sikh temple, two mosques and two Muslim prayer rooms so far have been hit by arson and vandalism attacks, as well as throwing a pig head into a muslim mosque.

These have really convinced the atheist that religion is the source of war and they believed religions should be removed for world peace.

How do you defend against this claim?
Click to expand...
How many millions of people were killed by atheists?

How many wars were started by atheist or atheistic governments?
 
=Eric Peter;7606906]As the title suggest, how do you defend against this argument to the atheist?
Just curious how CAF will defend it.
Because in another forum (my local country forum), I’ve seen a lot of argument of the atheist, and one of the most common used argument is
‘Religion is the cause of wars. When two people from different religion disagreeing with each other, they start to force their beliefs on others, and eventually they fight, and then it leads to war’.
Click to expand...
They did not specify which war but I don’t think they are ignorant of the Crusades (Christianity vs Muslims), the current on going Israeli-Palestinian war (my country is pro-Palestinian, after all it’s a Muslim country), and even my local country issue where due to the local issue of the word ‘Allah’, eleven churches, a Catholic school, a Sikh temple, two mosques and two Muslim prayer rooms so far have been hit by arson and vandalism attacks, as well as throwing a pig head into a muslim mosque.
Click to expand...
These have really convinced the atheist that religion is the source of war and they believed religions should be removed for world peace.
Click to expand...
How do you defend against this claim?
Click to expand...
GREAT QUESTION!

It seems to ME, that any religion NOT worth DEFENDING is likely a religion holding “truths” not worth fighting for?

MONEY: GREED; POWER, Territority; are more likely candidates than is religion; although one cannot rule wars fought over religion out.

Take Ireland for example: Many consider it to be a war of Catholics and Protrstants; when in fact; it’s politically motivated.

SOME THINGS ARE WORTH FIGHTING FOR: A GREAT MANY BATTLES IN THE OT, testify to God’s approval of fighting for what is RIGHT.

This is ONLY an excuse; something they THINK mkes them smarter; and gives jutificaton to there personal choices NOT to accept a “god / God;” as it would necesarly complicate there Moral and chairitable lifes.

STRANGELY they all DO HOLD TO gods THEY HAVE CREATED:.money-god; sex-god; power-god; self worth-god ECT. IT’S ONLY AN EXCUSE; NOT A VALID POSITON.

God Bless,
Pat
 
First, as often is the case, the language of the thread title is defective and misleading. It incorporates the assumption of “allness,” which is a procedural error. It might far better read: “…religious differences are a cause of some wars.” The allness presumption as used in the original would naturally cause reactivity because of its obvious position as a blanket statement.

And while anyone would admit that not all wars are caused by religious differences, it has to be admitted that some are, except by uber pious individuals who have an emotional stake in not being impartial regarding interpretations of history.

Even the Catholic Church in the third century conducted it’s own brand of pogrom or jihad. And while it is so that more were killed under Stalin then in WWII, the latter included a religious/racial element someone above seems to have forgotten about. And the horrors of the Irish religious war were levied against faiths so similar as to make the disagreements negligible in the eyes of non Christians.

And while it might be reasonable to say that individual miscreants do not represent a religion’s paradigm, we have to ask what sort of disconnect is going on when denominations clash or persecute as groups. If the war is clearly between religions, it is not an aberration of a random individual; something more serious is going on, and it is not sufficient to claim that it is people, not their religion. The whole matter of the efficacy of actual inculcation then comes into question, or the principles, or the practical utility of the methodology of the religions involved all become suspect.
 
When did the Catholic Church commit a pogrom, when, where ???

Sounds like one I heard last year that the Catholic Church killed 25 million people…

A young woman grew up in an anti-Catholic family…she wanted to learn the beliefs of the early Christians. She then was drawn to find out what the universal catechism teaches today…the Catholic catechism. She was shocked to find out our teachings haven’t changed in 2,000 years, and became a devout Catholic.

My catechism doesn’t say anything about giving license to commit pogroms.

So please clarify…
 
You can’t defend against an undeniable truth. Observe the conflict between Sunni and Shiite Muslims. It has been going on for literally THOUSANDS of years.
 
To be more specific, where in the third century did the Catholic Church commit pogroms?

There is no code in Catholicism to kill except in self-defense…and to protect the greater good.

The Spanish Inquisition had 6,000 killed. This was the work primarily of lay leadership, which so many times would not listen to the Church. The perspective however, is that Spain was being plundered for 700 years. At one time, the Spanish were living as dhimmi in their own land. To this day, the Muslims say behind our back, ‘We lost Spain!’…a Muslim told me that.

Furthermore, it was the Catholic clergy who in most cases exonerated and freed the accused.

Another case is Pope Pius XII. He was accused of doing nothing for the Jews, especially promoted through the play, ‘The Deputy’. Years later a Jewish organization, Pave the Way, requested and easily gained access to the documents of Pope Pius XII through the Vatican library.

When they finished their private investigation, they came out amazed and said no one had helped the Jews more than Pope Pius XII.

It is the atheists and enemies of religion who take the time to distort and promote disinformation about religion, especially Christianity, and in particular, Catholicism. I know, because I saw it and experienced it in secular universities and working overseas.

The Catholic Church is the one responsible for providing hospitals, hospices, schools and universities to ordinary people. As early as the 1500’s in Mexico, considered to be the learning center of the New World, not Anglo America, provided women and girls the right to an education. During that same time, universities were built there, and within just so many years…in the latter 1500’s, these universities had native Indian professors.

The modern culture is very unbalanced and hostile towards Christianity today, both due to its own misunderstanding and lack of information, as well as the bias the atheists and seculars promote.
 
There are certain religions that promote war. Vikings and Maori warriors, among others, had a belief system (“religion”) that encouraged war. And Lenin, Stalin, Mao subscribed to a belief system (the “religion” of Communism) that promoted class warfare between the working class and capitalists (bourgeois class).
 
You cannot compare Catholicism to Sunni/Shi’ite; totally different values and outlook.

The Crusades happened…because our holy lands were overtaken. There was a great deal of bloodshed the Pre-Islamic and Muslim Arabs shed to gain our sacred place.

Where are the Jews and Christian religions working to take over the Hajj or other sacred Muslim sites?

The Crusades came about only after a mere 400 years of Christians crying out for help from Jerusalem, and from the pilgrims who travelled there. The excesses of the Crusades was not due to their faith, but to nominal, merely baptized Norman fighters, no reflection on the depth of Christianity of their own beliefs and behaviors.

Furthermore, the more severe the fighting, the more severe the counter force. Have you ever read the methods used to over take our holy lands…or the blood knee deep in Constantinople before its fall?

Young people in the past 40 years have been systematically taught the brutality of the Crusades with absolutely no context. The propagandizing of our youth by educational secularists/atheists has done the greatest harm to our youth, as well as their sexualizing of our young people, destroying their innocence.

Where is the rebuttal in public about religion causing wars…and what the modern secularists have destroyed…the family and the innocence of our children??? These are spiritual, moral and cultural deaths…more severe than dying in this world…but gaining eternal life.
 
AWguitar007 said:
You can’t defend against an undeniable truth. Observe the conflict between Sunni and Shiite Muslims. It has been going on for literally THOUSANDS of years.
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Yet, Islam has only existed just over a thousand years, it’s more accurate to say that conflict between humanity has been going on for THOUSANDS of years, politics, money and just humanity in general causes more wars and deaths then Religion ever could.
 
I agree with all those that said it is not religion or the religious that cause wars. It is the people that have a warped sense of religion. Or, as another poster said, failed Christianity I think it was.

I’m not sure if my analogy would make sense. But, I see the issue much like attempts at gun control. It is not the gun that is the problem, but the people in whose hands the guns are held.
 
AWguitar007 said:
You can’t defend against an undeniable truth. Observe the conflict between Sunni and Shiite Muslims. It has been going on for literally THOUSANDS of years.
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Why is that? - they believe the next Mohammed will come from the ruling tribe at the time. So they have been jockeying to be that tribe for that long. It will continue.

So those that argue Islam is a religion of peace should re-examine that claim. If a religion has skewed beliefs then the religion has to be errant, since religion means binding oneself to God. Islam’s Revelation receiving mechanism is faulty.

Most often though, the claim is thrust at Christians without validity.
 
Eric_Peter said:
.

These have really convinced the atheist that religion is the source of war and they believed religions should be removed for world peace.

How do you defend against this claim?
Click to expand...
Ask this: How are religions going to be removed? By a big war between those who believe in religion and those who don’t? Sounds like the cure is worse than the disease.

Heinlein in *Starship Troopers *argued that economics is the cause of all wars, even supposedly religious wars.
 
mackbrislawn said:
Ask this: How are religions going to be removed? By a big war between those who believe in religion and those who don’t? Sounds like the cure is worse than the disease.

Heinlein in *Starship Troopers *argued that economics is the cause of all wars, even supposedly religious wars.
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The US has been homogenizing its citizens for quite a while now. The assumption is, take away their differences and their will be less conflict and a more orderly society. We can all see how that turned out. :nope:

Now imagine if every citizen worked to fulfill the Catholic proposition in their lives. Less conflict, lower public costs, lower enforcement costs, more harmony, government working for the people and on and on and on. The US needs to get back to its Judeo-Christian foundations, from the top down and the bottom up.
 
buffalo said:
The US has been homogenizing its citizens for quite a while now. The assumption is, take away their differences and their will be less conflict and a more orderly society. We can all see how that turned out. :nope:

Now imagine if every citizen worked to fulfill the Catholic proposition in their lives. Less conflict, lower public costs, lower enforcement costs, more harmony, government working for the people and on and on and on. The US needs to get back to its Judeo-Christian foundations, from the top down and the bottom up.
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So in other words homogenization doesn’t work, so let’s homogenize?
 
Ranklyfrank said:
So in other words homogenization doesn’t work, so let’s homogenize?
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No. Attempting to ‘force’ a homogenization outside natural law/the law of God is what doesn’t work.

Attempting to individually follow God’s law properly on the part of all humans is not ‘homogenization’ but self-actualization done ‘right.’
 
Tantum_ergo said:
No. Attempting to ‘force’ a homogenization outside natural law/the law of God is what doesn’t work.

Attempting to individually follow God’s law properly on the part of all humans is not ‘homogenization’ but self-actualization done ‘right.’
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what he said.
 
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