How to defend against the argument 'religion is the cause of wars'

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Ranklyfrank said:
I understand what you are saying, GT. What I’m trying to get at though, is given all the people in the world, whether they agree with you or not about the above, what is the inevitable and common factor which is even at the root of the ability to detach and pray?

And in your mind, what does “detach” mean? I’m asking because the holiest most Saintly man I ever knew was also very wealthy, business savvy, Had one of the most lovely private art collections I’ve ever seen, and yet was utterly detached from his “belongings.” He was also the most respectful and careful man regarding them. So I’m curious what you mean when you say “detached.”
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Oh for sure, you could easily be in but not of it. I suppose those are the Lords unfinished products. If they don’t destroy themself in the process.

And thats what it is.

Obviously we all didn’t take a vow of poverty. Yet looking at the bigger picture, its all really meaningless to me. And if you can see it for what it is, then you won’t be a slave to it. Thats not say you won’t be tempted. Or you won’t make a mistake. Good and evil are very real and we definately were born into this sin. Not hard to figure that one out. 🙂

In looking at time management, the investment in prayer + church is really small compared to the pay-off. Gods just a Great Investment and the main investment. That effort keeps me grounded in everything else I do.

The belief that Christ is God is an absolute. The church I believe if your heads in the right place you’ll be fine. Now, non-believers who are aware of Christ? I’m convinced thats a major problem with the Lord. 😃 Just reading the works of the Mystics is jaw-dropping, and convinced me of that.

God Bless, GT
 
Ranklyfrank said:
Remember, we are looking for something undeniable by anyone. including atheists, agnostics, idol worshipers, ancestor worshipers, Nature worshipers, any one. What you quoted me is from the Catechism, eh?
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But undeniable by anyone does not preclude the catechism. God is God.

The fact is, God is.

Now if you have somebody (atheist) who simply is not going to grant you that 'God is", well, you can’t just say, ok, we’ll pretend He DOESN’T exist because that’s the only way you’ll listen, you won’t listen if we start talking about God."

Imagine if you had a blind man (blind from birth) who refused to accept that there was a sun. He of course could not ‘see’ it for himself (and indeed, even a sighted man who say lived in a cave underground would not ‘see’ it either). All he would know is what he could ‘feel’ for himself. So if he felt a light bulb go on and experienced heat, he’d keep saying, "yes I feel heat, which you say is from the ‘sun’, some planet hurtling about millions of miles away, but you can’t fool me, it’s just a bigger light bulb’’.

So, do you ‘jettison’ the truth (the fact that the sun exists) and try to argue it does anyway with somebody who won’t ‘accept it’? I don’t think so. . .
 
Tantum_ergo said:
But undeniable by anyone does not preclude the catechism. God is God.

The fact is, God is.

Now if you have somebody (atheist) who simply is not going to grant you that 'God is", well, you can’t just say, ok, we’ll pretend He DOESN’T exist because that’s the only way you’ll listen, you won’t listen if we start talking about God."

Imagine if you had a blind man (blind from birth) who refused to accept that there was a sun. He of course could not ‘see’ it for himself (and indeed, even a sighted man who say lived in a cave underground would not ‘see’ it either). All he would know is what he could ‘feel’ for himself. So if he felt a light bulb go on and experienced heat, he’d keep saying, "yes I feel heat, which you say is from the ‘sun’, some planet hurtling about millions of miles away, but you can’t fool me, it’s just a bigger light bulb’’.

So, do you ‘jettison’ the truth (the fact that the sun exists) and try to argue it does anyway with somebody who won’t ‘accept it’? I don’t think so. . .
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Thanks for your note.

A) The Catechism is not God.

B) I absolutely agree with you that God IS.

C) Nothing needs to be “jettisoned” as all jetsam is irrelevant to the question.

D) The factor I’m asking for is independent of argument; it is a given, even to the blind man.
 
Ranklyfrank said:
Remember, we are looking for something undeniable by anyone. …
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This clarifies what you are asking for. Someone once said there are two kinds of people in this world: those who believe there are two kinds of people in this world, and those who do not. So, I think what you are asking for doesn’t exist because of Newton’s Third Law of Social Studies: For every opinion, there is an equal but opposite opinion. Perhaps this is the only thing undeniable by anyone.
 
GaryTaylor said:
All you have to do is forget who is the author of life.🤷
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WHAT are you talking about? Are you claiming that in order to be in this world and not of it “all you have to do is forget who is the author of life?” Isn’t that about the reverse of the case?
 
Eric_Peter said:
As the title suggest, how do you defend against this argument to the atheist?
Just curious how CAF will defend it.
Because in another forum (my local country forum), I’ve seen a lot of argument of the atheist, and one of the most common used argument is
‘Religion is the cause of wars. When two people from different religion disagreeing with each other, they start to force their beliefs on others, and eventually they fight, and then it leads to war’.

They did not specify which war but I don’t think they are ignorant of the Crusades (Christianity vs Muslims), the current on going Israeli-Palestinian war (my country is pro-Palestinian, after all it’s a Muslim country), and even my local country issue where due to the local issue of the word ‘Allah’, eleven churches, a Catholic school, a Sikh temple, two mosques and two Muslim prayer rooms so far have been hit by arson and vandalism attacks, as well as throwing a pig head into a muslim mosque.

These have really convinced the atheist that religion is the source of war and they believed religions should be removed for world peace.

How do you defend against this claim?
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Well to begin with People start wars not Religion. But why lie People have been fighting over Religion since the time of Christ. But it is not Religion that causes war it is evil.

Today I believe that Money causes much more war then what faith you are. We talk about other countries but look at ourself.

Women kill their babies simply because the time is not right, or they don’t want to be tied down, or need that career.

You read every day someone killing another for money.

Even back when people killed Jesus it wasn’t about faith,not really, it was about money. Because Jesus didn’t care about money. or power. Power is another reason. Did you ever realize that once someone has alot of money power comes next. They want control over another. They want to be their own god.

But how I would answer that question about someones faith causing war, I would say simply, not if they practiced what our dear Lord taught. Thou shall not kill. Christ never pushed his faith on anyone, actually I would recite to them the scripture when Christ told his apostles to go into a city, if they refuse to listen to you shake the sand from your feet and move on. (not exact words but I am sure you get my poiint).

But anything that an athiest can blame on God they will try. Even though they claim he does not exist:p.
 
Pretty much sounds about right. I believe that Mary made a similiar comment at Fatima. That the Lord allows this to happen because of mans sin and evil.

If God chose to stop evil, it would stop instantly. It took 1-1/100th of second for lucifers fall. What did Christ say; It was like a flash from East to West.
 
Secular movements have been the greatest killers in history.

Communist Russia, National Socialism (Nazism), Fascism, and Communist China have all killed tens of millions of people which even one of them would have killed more people then all the “religious” wars.

Not to mention the silent war of the womb.

Also those “religious” wars were really political wars by varying princes and nations not the Church.
 
Religion is the cause of many wars, but many things are the causes of many other things. What does this have to do with religion? Human beings are crippled and sinful. Even Baptism does not cut away the selfishness of we sinners. There are occasions to start a war practically every day, on my part, and it is devilishly hard to avoid them. We must absolutely be virtuous, according to the Cardinal and the Theological virtues. The fact that people ignore the natural law and moral law does not mean that these laws do not exist.

Arguing that “religion is the cause of many wars; therefore, religion is bad” misses the huge picture for the tiny dot in the upper left-hand corner! You might as well say that greed causes many wars, so we should destroy greed… well, good luck. God ordained religion to reform as many people as possible, not to make us perfect. Wars are caused by selfishness, pride, lust, gluttony and one million other things that are not religious in nature.

Who cares?
 
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