How to defend John14:13-14?

[Anthony_V]

The question that arises is: how do you get someone to see spiritually when they won’t look at it as a possibility?

For starters, every person experiences an immaterial consciousness. Technically speaking, that shouldn’t be happening. A material brain, though technically it could affect (and is obviously proven to affect) an immaterial consciousness, shouldn’t elicit it. In other words, there’s no good reason that the different parts of the brain should produce an experience of what is happening. We should simply be highly complex biological robots. But we aren’t, and that points to something deeper.

Second, the universe is intelligible. That is, we can make sense of the universe as if it were a thought. The mind does one thing: it thinks. So to be redundant, the mind can only think thoughts. The mind can think of the universe. We know the the universe to be a tangible thing which exists as well. Therefore, the universe is actually a thought. But because the universe exists before we think of it, it must be thought of first by another thinker. That thinker we know to be God. And indeed, I am a thought as well as you! This entails some sort of spirituality, because it is a shared level of cognition between thinker (God) and thoughts-who-think-about-themselves (us). The fact that we can think about our own thinking (metacognition), the fact that we can think about things that God has thought into being (recognition), and the fact that we are continually thought of (as we are still held into being and existence by the thinker) points to some sort of spirituality.

God also thinks about himself in an eternal and peculiar way, should that question come up. He is, in some sense, also an eternal thought.

 

[Kirk_O]

For starters, every person experiences an immaterial consciousness. Technically speaking, that shouldn’t be happening. A material brain, though technically it could affect (and is obviously proven to affect) an immaterial consciousness, shouldn’t elicit it. In other words, there’s no good reason that the different parts of the brain should produce an experience of what is happening. We should simply be highly complex biological robots. But we aren’t, and that points to something deeper.

Second, the universe is intelligible. That is, we can make sense of the universe as if it were a thought. The mind does one thing: it thinks. So to be redundant, the mind can only think thoughts. The mind can think of the universe. We know the the universe to be a tangible thing which exists as well. Therefore, the universe is actually a thought. But because the universe exists before we think of it, it must be thought of first by another thinker. That thinker we know to be God. And indeed, I am a thought as well as you! This entails some sort of spirituality, because it is a shared level of cognition between thinker (God) and thoughts-who-think-about-themselves (us). The fact that we can think about our own thinking (metacognition), the fact that we can think about things that God has thought into being (recognition), and the fact that we are continually thought of (as we are still held into being and existence by the thinker) points to some sort of spirituality.

God also thinks about himself in an eternal and peculiar way, should that question come up. He is, in some sense, also an eternal thought.

Thanks, I love the deepness of it I will have to take some time a think of a good way to deliver this to him.

 

[Anthony_V]

Thanks, I love the deepness of it I will have to take some time a think of a good way to deliver this to him.

Sure, my friend!

Cheers,
Anthony

 

[John_Martin]

I know but he doesn’t believe the Church is a good source of authority with all of the lies about Her past and the resent sex scandals.

Well, your friend is quoting the Bible, which is the Church’s possession and creation (John wrote as a representative of the Church, and of Jesus. He did not write as some “special person who knows more truth than the Church knows”, but he was a Bishop, writing as a Bishop of the Church). So, if the Church is not a “good source”, then John 14:13-14 is not a good source, for it is the Church speaking in written and official form.

John Martin

 

[TimothyH]

In a discussion with an atheist and he brought up how can God be real if Ge doesn’t answer all of our prayers when according to the Bible He will. I told him that God answers our prayer not like wishes that we receive everything what we ask for but with Grace which truly takes cares of our prayer/need. But he refers to John 14:13-14. Which I could see how that could be a stumbling block for someone trying to believe in God.

I once prayed for a Corvette ZR1. God said, “No, you will sin greatly if I give you that.”

God answered the prayer. His answer was no.

You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions. (James 4:3)

In all the reading and studying of scipture I have done, the most important thing I have learned is that the Bible is a unfied whole. The atheist does not understand this. The Bible is not a newspaper. Everything in it, from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 21:22, tells a story. It is all a unified whole and no part can be understood apart from the rest of it. The atheist does not understand this.

-Tim-

 

[ldeschambault]

Prayer in Jesus’ name is taught in John 14:13-14, “And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.” Some misapply this verse, thinking that saying “in Jesus’ name” at the end of a prayer results in God’s always granting what is asked for. This is essentially treating the words “in Jesus’ name” as a magic formula. This is absolutely unbiblical.

Praying in Jesus’ name means praying with His authority and asking God the Father to act upon our prayers because we come in the name of His Son, Jesus. Praying in Jesus’ name means the same thing as praying according to the will of God, “This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him” (1 John 5:14-15). Praying in Jesus’ name is praying for things that will honor and glorify Jesus.

Saying “in Jesus’ name” at the end of a prayer is not a magic formula. If what we ask for or say in prayer is not for God’s glory and according to His will, saying “in Jesus’ name” is meaningless. Genuinely praying in Jesus’ name and for His glory is what is important, not attaching certain words to the end of a prayer. It is not the words in the prayer that matter, but the purpose behind the prayer. Praying for things that are in agreement with God’s will is the essence of praying in Jesus’ name.

 

[SeekerM]

Prayer in Jesus’ name is taught in John 14:13-14, “And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.” Some misapply this verse, thinking that saying “in Jesus’ name” at the end of a prayer results in God’s always granting what is asked for. This is essentially treating the words “in Jesus’ name” as a magic formula. This is absolutely unbiblical.

Praying in Jesus’ name means praying with His authority and asking God the Father to act upon our prayers because we come in the name of His Son, Jesus. Praying in Jesus’ name means the same thing as praying according to the will of God, “This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him” (1 John 5:14-15). Praying in Jesus’ name is praying for things that will honor and glorify Jesus.

Saying “in Jesus’ name” at the end of a prayer is not a magic formula. If what we ask for or say in prayer is not for God’s glory and according to His will, saying “in Jesus’ name” is meaningless. Genuinely praying in Jesus’ name and for His glory is what is important, not attaching certain words to the end of a prayer. It is not the words in the prayer that matter, but the purpose behind the prayer. Praying for things that are in agreement with God’s will is the essence of praying in Jesus’ name.

Did any of the early Church Fathers offer any commentary on what it means to pray in the name of Jesus?

And what is the Catholic interpretation of John 14:13-14?

 

[SoMissCatholic]

In a discussion with an atheist and he brought up how can God be real if Ge doesn’t answer all of our prayers when according to the Bible He will. I told him that God answers our prayer not like wishes that we receive everything what we ask for but with Grace which truly takes cares of our prayer/need. But he refers to John 14:13-14. Which I could see how that could be a stumbling block for someone trying to believe in God.

I know that you said you have tried this somewhat, but maybe the following approach might help. We have to look at that passage in context. John 14:13-14 says:
John 14:13-14:

And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.

In addition to the immediate context of the passage, I would specifically point out the next chapter, John 15. There, we see the discourse on the Vine and the branches.

1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine grower. 2 He takes away every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and every one that does he prunes so that it bears more fruit. 3 You are already pruned because of the word that I spoke to you. 4 Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. 6 Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. 8 By this is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit and become my disciples. 9 As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

Here we see Jesus restate what he said in the verses your friend asked about, i.e. to ask for whatever you want and it will be done so that the Father may be glorified. However, Jesus expands on what he said in chapter 14 and gives it more context. This time the promise is given an explicit qualifier, “If you remain in me and my words remain in you. . . .” Jesus reiterates this qualifier twice more in verses 9 and 10, stating that we must remain in his love and that we do that by keeping his commandments. Therefore, whatever we ask will be given only insofar as we remain in Jesus and Jesus remains in us. In other words, whatever we ask will be given only insofar as our will is in accordance with his will, for it necessarily follows that we cannot remain in Jesus and he in us if we are acting (and/or asking for something) contrary to his will. This is the view expressed by Saint Augustine:
Saint Augustine:

For then may His words be said to abide in us, when we do what He has commanded, and love what He has promised. But when His words abide in the memory and are not found in the life, the branch is not accounted to be in the vine, because it derives no life from its root. So far as we abide in the Savior we cannot will any thing that is foreign to our salvation. We have one will, insofar as we are in Christ, another, insofar as we are in this world And by reason of our abode in this world, it sometimes happens that we ask for that which is not expedient, through ignorance. But never, if we abide in Christ, will He grant it us, Who does not grant except what is expedient for us. And here we are directed to the prayer, Our Father. Let us adhere to the words and the meaning of this prayer in our petitions, and whatever we ask will be done for us.

Continued below.

 

[SoMissCatholic]

Continued from previous post.

That is not the end though. Jesus gives this promise once more in the final part of the vine/branches discourse, again giving the appropriate context for the promise:

11 “I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete. 12 This is my commandment: love one another as I love you. 13 No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command you. 15 I no longer call you slaves, because a slave does not know what his master is doing. I have called you friends, because I have told you everything I have heard from my Father. 16 It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you. 17 This I command you: love one another.”

Note here that the promise is contingent on that which precedes it, namely that we must “go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.” What is “fruit that will remain”? The Catena Aurea provides:

AUG. Observe, He does not choose the good; but those, whom He has chosen, He makes good: And I have ordained you that you should go, and bring forth fruit. This is the fruit which He meant, when He said, Without Me you can do nothing. He Himself is the way in which He has set us to go. GREG. I have set you, i.e., have planted you by grace, that you should go by will: to will being to go in mind, and bring forth fruit, by works. What kind of fruit they should bring forth He then shows: And that your fruit may remain; for worldly labor hardly produces fruit to last our life; and if it does, death comes at last, and deprives us of it all. But the fruit of our spiritual labors endures even after death; and begins to be seen at the very time that the results of our carnal labor begin to disappear. Let us then produce such fruits as may remain, and of which death, which destroys every thing, will be the commencement. AUG. Love then is one fruit, now existing in desire only, not yet in fullness. Yet even with this desire whatever we ask in the name of the Only-Begotten Son, the Father gives us: That whatsoever you shall ask the Father in My name, He may give it you. We ask in the Savior’s name, whatever we ask, that will be profitable to our salvation.

The Catechism provides in paragraph 2614:

Faith bears its fruit in love: it means keeping the word and the commandments of Jesus, it means abiding with him in the Father who, in him, so loves us that he abides with us. In this new covenant the certitude that our petitions will be heard is founded on the prayer of Jesus.

Therefore, as the above makes clear, we see again–as we did when the promise was made in verse 7–that we must be living in accordance with God’s will for us, allowing him to make us good (i.e. sanctify us) by cooperating with the grace given to us, in order that “whatever [we] ask the Father in [Jesus’] name he may give [us].”

Scripture can’t contradict itself. Therefore, only when we view John 14:13-14 together with the verses in chapter 15 that further discuss and explain the same subject, can we arrive at a correct understanding of what is being said.

Remember, a text without context is pretext for a proof text.

 

[SoMissCatholic]

. . . . Aaand I just noticed that the majority of this thread is from almost a year ago. So the OP may not even need this advice/be on CAF anymore. Oh well, hopefully some others may find it helpful.