How to defend the Mass as not being "dead."

[hoodrat]

How should I respond when I’m told that Catholics lack the proper way to worship? My husband’s uncle is a Pentecostal pastor and more than once, if he notices I’m in attendance, will make some comment about churches that don’t dance, clap, or sing. Of course, he means the Catholic Church as he is a former Catholic who has often preached the need to save our lost souls lol. He also frequently quotes verses from Psalms when preaching about how we should praise God. In one service, I believed he looked right at me (either that or I was really paranoid), and said, “if your arms are at your side, stiff, or folding your arms, then you’re not letting the Holy Spirit come through you. Show God you love Him and raise your hands up.” In another service, he wanted everyone to dance around the church. I sat down for all that, tho.

Well, this past week, after attending mass with my son, and then driving over to pick up the hubby from his church, one of his cousins asked if I had just come back from standing up, sitting down, kneeling, standing up, and sitting back down again, at Mass, and went on to say that if my church needed help learning how to worship, then to call him. The cousin was just joking, but I really wanted to say something, but didn’t know what to say.

any advice?

 

[janman55]

Our Lord said that unless you eat the Son of Man and drink His Blood you have no life within you… I’m curious what he thinks about that. All the clapping and dancing in the world can’t replace that.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

11 Then the LORD said, “Go outside and stand on the mountain before the LORD; the LORD will be passing by.” A strong and heavy wind was rending the mountains and crushing rocks before the LORD–but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake–but the LORD was not in the earthquake.
12 After the earthquake there was fire–but the LORD was not in the fire. After the fire there was a tiny whispering sound.
13 When he heard this, Elijah hid his face in his cloak … (1 Kings 19:11-13)

Noise does not signify the presence of God. If there is constant activity and noise in a church service, how can we hear the “tiny whispering sound” or the “still small voice”?

Sometimes I think all the hubbub in some churches is a substitute for reverence and awe at the Real Presence we have in the Catholic Church.

We Catholics should do a better job of singing and participating, but loud praise and singing is not the focal point of our liturgy. The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is.

 

[Lizziebel]

There are many ways to be alive in faith. It doesn’t have to be expressed so outwardly by clapping and dancing. It can also be expressed in a much more quietly reverent way, but that certainly does not have to equal dead faith.

 

[benedictgal]

First of all, the Church is the New Israel. If you were to examine the cultic worship of Ancient Israel, you will note that many things are similar. There is the sacrificial element. There are the vestments, the use of incense, the readings and the chant.

Second, the Holy Sacrifice dates back to the Last Supper. The Last Supper anticipates the Passion, Death and Resurrection of the Lord. You cannot separate the Last Supper from the Passion and the Death and the Resurrection. One cannot be without the others. They all point towards each other.

Here is a link to a homily preached by Pope Benedict XVI on Holy Thursday 2007:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20070405_coena-domini_en.html

Here is a snippet:

Israel was never to forget that God had personally taken the history of his People in hand and that this history was based permanently on communion with God. Israel must not forget God.

The words of the commemoration were surrounded by words of praise and thanksgiving taken from the Psalms. Thanking and blessing God reached its culmination in the berakah, which in Greek is eulogia or eucaristia: praising God becomes a blessing for those who bless him. The offering given to God comes back blessed to man.

All this built a bridge from the past to the present and toward the future: Israel had not yet been liberated. The nation was still suffering, like a small people, in the sphere of tension between the great powers.

Thus, remembering with gratitude God’s past action became at the same time supplication and hope: Bring to completion what you have begun! Grant us freedom once and for all!

It was on the eve of his Passion that Jesus together with his disciples celebrated this meal with its multiple meanings. This is the context in which we must understand the new Passover which he has given to us in the Blessed Eucharist.

This homily is rich in its interpetation of the Mass and it uses scriptural references. I hope you find it helpful.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

hoodrat;

any advice?

Don’t try to convince them through debate. Such moves only tend to cause each side to dig in their heels, in order to defend their positions. Keep in mind, that such people are comfortable in their beliefs, even as distorted as they may be.

Instead, learn about the Mass yourself.

I highly recommend, “The Lamb’s Supper,” by Scott Hahn.

Scott Hahn is a convert to Catholicism and a scholar. In this book, he shows that what St. John described in the first part of the Book Of Revelation, was actually the Catholic Mass being said in heaven. The Holy, Holy, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, etc. Sound familiar?

I think once you read it, you’ll want to share it with your husband, if he’s open to it. But don’t force it on him.

Jim

 

[MeganLizbeth80]

I read your message today and couldn’t help but respond. I was raised Pentecostal - my father is a Pentecostal pastor - but my fiance and I have discussed converting to Catholicism after we are married. We have attended Mass many times with our Catholic friends. I have even been blessed by a priest.

I apologize that this is how a Pentecostal Protestant has treated you, because his behavior does not reflect Christ. This is NOT how I was raised. Furthermore, I have been very aware of God’s spirit when I have attended Mass. Anyone who has attended Mass knows that there is a special reverence and impartation of God’s spirit, especially during the sacraments.

I do know many Pentecostals that feel the way your husband’s uncle does, but I want to clarify that those who are educated and study God’s word with an open heart do not follow the belief that one must “show” God’s spirit through physical manifestations.

I believe your husband’s uncle has good intentions but is misguided. Many Pentecostals are uncomfortable with services that differ from the charismatic style they are accustomed to. This still does not excuse his statements.

As someone who has experience this, I recommend that you pray for him. Ask God to show him that he is dividing the Body of Christ with his comments. Perhaps you could also invite him to attend Mass, so he can experience it for himself. I know that attending Mass corrected many of my misconceptions about Catholicism.

I encourage you to be patient and kind, and don’t participate in something at his church that makes you uncomfortable. If you attend, ask God for his guidance and discernment throughout the service.

For the record, I would not dance around the church, either.

 

[Cat]

My husband was raised in the Assemblies of God.

Much of the worship service in the A of God is emotions. I’m not saying it’s insincere or evil. But the Christians in these churches have learned how to stir up their “happy” emotions.

My husband’s family has broken with the Assemblies of God denomination. The reason was this: when an event(s) occurred in their lives that conflicted with the “happy” emotions in the church, they realized that they could no longer worship because they were no longer happy. That helped them to realize that the worship had very little “real substance” in it, since it vanished when troubles appeared.

They couldn’t reconcile their worship with their misery. They couldn’t laugh, dance, raise their hands, pray out loud, sing. It’s just like Psalm 137–“How can we sing the Lord’s song in a foreign land?”

The happy emotions just weren’t there to do “Pentecostal worship,” and that meant no worship at all, and THAT’S when my relatives broke off with the A of God and looked for something that was real even in the midst of sorrow and misery.

I hope that your husband’s relatives will not have to undergo suffering to learn that their “undead” worship is really quite shallow. But perhaps this is what will eventually bring them to a place where they can see the value of a liturgical worship that is, like Jesus, eternal and unchanging in substance.

Just make sure to keep the doors of communication open between you and them. When the bottom falls out and they realize that they can no longer clap and shout and sing, they will be able to come to you and ask, “Show me Jesus.”

My parents-in-law are not Catholic. But two years ago, their 2-year-old grandson was diagnosed with cancer. Interestingly, they had no problem at all with visiting the Shrine of Our Lady of the Snows and praying at the Shrine for the healing of their grandson, AND asking the priest to pray for him, too! I think that sorrows and suffering have a way of helping a Christian to find their way back to the Catholic Church. Somehow, when you are in misery, it’s more comforting to contemplate a crucifix than it is to sing and dance.