How to detirmine your Diocese's Orthodoxy

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Simply…is there some organization which evaluates how conservative/liberal and or how orthodox a diocese is? I’d love to know where my diocese falls in the mix. Anyone know the three most conservative dioceses? Three most liberal?
 
I don’t know of any rating system for the liberal and conservative dioceses. There might be one, I just don’t know. I get my information through reading a variety of Catholic magazines, talking to people on the internet, and traveling.

I can name three very liberal dioceses. They are Los Angeles, Rochester, N.Y. and Richmond, Va. Honestly, I think that Richmond is worse than L.A. but they just got a new bishop who seems to be cleaning house. Rochester is a whole other can of worms, from what I understand and hear from people on the internet.

As far as conservative dioceses go, it looks like St. Louis, Atlanta, and Philadelphia are pretty conservative. I am sure there are others here with lots more information than I can give you.
 
A (semi) useful barometer is how many vocations to the priesthood your diocese has.

Madison WI, had I think 1 in 2002 (Pretty liberal)
Omaha NE, had I think 6 or 7 in 2002 (Pretty orthodox)

I know there are other factors, but in terms of the bishops’ duties, ordaining good men to the priesthood is a pretty high up there on the list.
 
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aquinasadmirer:
A (semi) useful barometer is how many vocations to the priesthood your diocese has.
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How do I count that? Please define the words. I’m starting RCIA soon. I’ve been told my parrish is pretty good. Thanks.
 
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jmm08:
How do I count that? Please define the words. I’m starting RCIA soon. I’ve been told my parrish is pretty good. Thanks.
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You are in Northern, Virginia? If so you are probably OK. It’s known for being Orthodox. As far as I know they have a lot of vocations.
 
The “vocation” barometer is a bad indicator. A number of bishops have for a very long time had agreements among themselves to send young men to larger archdioceses for training and to get older, seasoned priests (aka nearing retirement) in exchange…until the younger priests are through the seminary and have served a length of time in parishes. The cost of educating a seminarian is very prohibitive to several dioceses…and their need for priests is immediate, not 7-10 years from now. My own bishop sent away 3 young men from one parish and got 5 older priests in return. For him that was a phenomenal deal…and for the young men it meant they were getting the best education possible and got to serve as associates rather than becoming pastors right out of the seminary.

As for how to determine how “orthodox” you diocese is, forget it. It’s a moving target and you’ll never get an accurate answer. Know that your faith is sculpted by several factors, few of them imparted by the diocese…most imparted by your own curiosity and intellectual quest.
 
I remember an issue of the *New Oxford Review *about a year-and-a-half or two years ago that listed all US dioceses and classified them as either conservative or liberal. I’m in the Los Angeles Archdiocese (Archbishop Roger Cardinal Mahony) which was designated liberal. This designation was correct. I believe that Lincoln, NE, was designated as conservative (Bishop Fabian Bruskewicz). I seem to remember that there were many more liberal dioceses than conservative. I know that *New Oxford Review *has a website.
 
I don’t think this is the same article you are talking about, but this one ranks dioceses by the number of seminarians or new priests per population, I think for 1999, so a little outdated. For example, the best, Fargo, has a seminarian for every 2,025 people, while Hartford, the worst, has one for every 371,479 people. I agree with the comments above, it isn’t the most accurate indicator, maybe not even good, but it is interesting how the list confirms my biases. I’m not an expert on small town American geography, but it seems there are precious few left coast or new england diosces at the top, but they sure are at the bottom. Along with big texan cities 😦 I don’t think this really tells you one way or the other how conservative your diocese is in all cases, but its kind of interesting all the same.

newoxfordreview.org/2001/apr01/dougtattershall.html
 
I really don’t worry about the orthodoxy of my diocese. I am more concerned about coping with my own problems about the faith.
 
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PilgrimJWT:
I really don’t worry about the orthodoxy of my diocese. I am more concerned about coping with my own problems about the faith.
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And how would one determine the answer to such a question anyway ?​

 
My diocese ordained 3 priests this year; we currently have 18 seminarians. Since we’re a young (est. 1972) diocese rather than a large archdiocese, I don’t think that we would be in a position to trade in the way Loyola Rambler describes, although I don’t know that for sure.

Does anyone know whether we seem to have an average number of vocations for a diocese of our size (app. 54,000 households, 91 parishes/missions)? It may not be an “orthodoxy barometer,” but it would still be interesting to know how we compare.

We don’t seem to be short on priests (our 2003 report said we had 128 priests and 76 deacons). All our parishes have a pastor, and many have assistants as well. Also, on the whole, most of the priests I see in our diocese seem to be on the youngish side.
 
If the following things happen in your diocese then it is probably orthodox.
  1. The diocesean website contains orthodox Catholic material.
  2. No ‘looney tune’ conferences are hosted in your diocese.
  3. The bishop writes regularly on orthodox matters.
  4. The bishop is helpful if you write to him about concerns re your parish.
I am very lucky here in Melbourne Australia, Archbishop Hart is 100% orthodox. He has a lot of work to do , following on from Cardinal Pell’s wondership stewardship, such as fixing up the seminary and getting more Faithful priests out into the parishes. Our deanery though is very liberal 😦 and is very active in scandalising the “little ones” through Spirituality in the Pub meetings. :mad: The retreat centres are very liberal also.

We must remember to pray for our priests, the dissident and the Faithful, every day.
 
Having grown up in the diocese of Rochester I have unfortunate experience here.

First of all - check out the diocesan newsletter. If it features Richard McBrien’s weekly column - you’ve got a hint right there.

This diocese is saturated - from the way masses are celebrated all they way to RCIA, catechism, and the order of sacraments (first eucharist is given prior to first reconciliation in violation of canon law)

If you notice that the word “he” and “man” or “men” is wiped clean from the liturgy - that’s another hint.

ex: Glory to God in the highest, and peace to God’s people on earth.

You see - “his people” must be changed because we apparantly are changing the notion of God as Father.

I could go on but I’ll stop there for now :rolleyes:
 
Here I am In the heart of the Diocese of Rochester (just nominated as one of the three most liberal dioceses in the universe) and yet the Lord has been so good to me and my friends. He has led us to find each other, and so in the midst of it all, we have orthodox Roman Catholic bible study, parishes, Franciscan group, Focolare group and fellowship.

It breaks my heart to see my beloved Rochester’s name on that list and I guess I just wanted to let you know, in spite of all that goes on, that our Lord is still at work here.

These words keep coming to me “A return to devotion.” I think we are all being asked to pray for this, for all those who have lost the meaning and the joy of what it is to be truly Catholic.
 
That’s encouraging to hear!
I think if that were to happen in my particular parish - it would simply have to take place in individual homes without participation from most of the church’s staff.

It seems when someone wants to start anything - they are told they must have “certification” - which means earning credits - or possibly a certain degree - in order to be “qualified” to lead a group.
All these courses are either at St. Bernard’s or St. Bernard’s sends people out to give presentations.

From what I have seen -anyone I know who has gone off to St. Bernard’s has returned speaking the same anti-Rome language.
 
In contrast to several in this thread, I do think it makes a difference whether one’s diocese is orthodox. I’ve spoken to this in other threads on similar topics.

Why is it that the liberals want to change the mass, change the scripture, change the priesthood, etc.? The mindset among protestants is worth mentioning. There, if you don’t like your church, you quit and go join another or form your own. Like it or not, that’s their mindset. Example: The Anglican/Episcopal churches are threatening a split over the ordination of that openly gay bishop. (That may be an indication of where we are headed.)
If you’re protestant, that’s just what you do.

but, in the Catholic Church in the U.S. there is more of a tendency to hijack the church from within. You get a liberal bishop who spreads his opinion (characteristically) of ordaining women [like the late Bishop Kenneth Untener of Saginaw Mich.] and simultaneously spreads the opinion that the Popes have been wrong on contraception, women priests, and just about everything.

The hijacking is also evident in ways that Jimmy Breslin describes in his book “the church that forgot Christ” about the priest sex scandal. A diocese with lawsuits recent past or present may well be out of control.

And, then there are dioceses where abuses of liturgy are fairly common. That’s a hijacked diocese.

Overall, when the focus is on hijacking power in the church, then you’ve got a diocese that’s not focused on evangelization, which is the mission of the church, plain and simple.

Vatican II said the mission of the priest was to urgently bring men to Jesus Christ. If you don’t see that, then you’ve got a hijacked parish at the least, and probably a hijacked diocese as well.

If you don’t have a diocese that focuses attention on the documents of Vatican II, then you’ve got a hijacked diocese.

If you don’t have a parish or diocese that teaches about abortion and contraception, then you probably have a hijacked diocese.

If your parish and diocese doesn’t put some emphasis on adult formation, then you probably have a hijacked diocese.

If your parish and diocese doesn’t implement paragraph 131 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on “free access” to scripture study, then for SURE you have a hijacked diocese.

Four years ago I moved from Peoria (conservative, like 1970) to Saginaw (off scale liberal, change everything). Untener’s supporters say his critics didn’t understand him. Believe me, not everybody was not fooled. Why couldn’t they bury him without backhanded remarks about his critics? Make up your own mind.

God bless us and help us.
 
<And, then there are dioceses where abuses of liturgy are fairly common. That’s a hijacked diocese.

Overall, when the focus is on hijacking power in the church, then you’ve got a diocese that’s not focused on evangelization, which is the mission of the church, plain and simple.

Vatican II said the mission of the priest was to urgently bring men to Jesus Christ. If you don’t see that, then you’ve got a hijacked parish at the least, and probably a hijacked diocese as well.

If you don’t have a diocese that focuses attention on the documents of Vatican II, then you’ve got a hijacked diocese.

If you don’t have a parish or diocese that teaches about abortion and contraception, then you probably have a hijacked diocese.

If your parish and diocese doesn’t put some emphasis on adult formation, then you probably have a hijacked diocese.

If your parish and diocese doesn’t implement paragraph 131 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on “free access” to scripture study, then for SURE you have a hijacked diocese.>
I’ve got a hijacked diocese.
 
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BayCityRickL:
In contrast to several in this thread, I do think it makes a difference whether one’s diocese is orthodox. I’ve spoken to this in other threads on similar topics.

Why is it that the liberals want to change the mass, change the scripture, change the priesthood, etc.? The mindset among protestants is worth mentioning. There, if you don’t like your church, you quit and go join another or form your own. Like it or not, that’s their mindset. Example: The Anglican/Episcopal churches are threatening a split over the ordination of that openly gay bishop. (That may be an indication of where we are headed.)
If you’re protestant, that’s just what you do.

but, in the Catholic Church in the U.S. there is more of a tendency to hijack the church from within. You get a liberal bishop who spreads his opinion (characteristically) of ordaining women [like the late Bishop Kenneth Untener of Saginaw Mich.] and simultaneously spreads the opinion that the Popes have been wrong on contraception, women priests, and just about everything.

The hijacking is also evident in ways that Jimmy Breslin describes in his book “the church that forgot Christ” about the priest sex scandal. A diocese with lawsuits recent past or present may well be out of control.

And, then there are dioceses where abuses of liturgy are fairly common. That’s a hijacked diocese.

Overall, when the focus is on hijacking power in the church, then you’ve got a diocese that’s not focused on evangelization, which is the mission of the church, plain and simple.

Vatican II said the mission of the priest was to urgently bring men to Jesus Christ. If you don’t see that, then you’ve got a hijacked parish at the least, and probably a hijacked diocese as well.

If you don’t have a diocese that focuses attention on the documents of Vatican II, then you’ve got a hijacked diocese.

If you don’t have a parish or diocese that teaches about abortion and contraception, then you probably have a hijacked diocese.

If your parish and diocese doesn’t put some emphasis on adult formation, then you probably have a hijacked diocese.

If your parish and diocese doesn’t implement paragraph 131 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on “free access” to scripture study, then for SURE you have a hijacked diocese.

Four years ago I moved from Peoria (conservative, like 1970) to Saginaw (off scale liberal, change everything). Untener’s supporters say his critics didn’t understand him. Believe me, not everybody was not fooled. Why couldn’t they bury him without backhanded remarks about his critics? Make up your own mind.

God bless us and help us.
Click to expand...
A really excellent reply. Good show!
 
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