How to discern the devil

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someperson555

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So I think I’ve figured out how to know the works of Satan. You see the devil works in opposites. Sin and virtue is like light and dark and heat and cold. Dark and cold are not things in themselves but rather absence of things. I believe the devil caused sin in such a way He never created anything since he has no power to do so. Rather he twists nature or he negates it. SI here are some examples
The opposite of life is death
The opposite of truth is lies
The opposite of love is hate
The opposite of pleasure is pain
The opposite of sex is celibacy
The opposite of heterosexuality is homosexuality
The opposite of joy is sorrow
The opposite of health is sickness.

So I think the works of the devil include but are not limited to murder, lies, celibacy, homosexuality, pain, sickness, hate, etc.
This is why I think many Christian practices are the devils attacks on the church. Monasticism for example is a demonic deception in my opinion.

The glorification of sickness, pain, and suffering as well as the shunning of the material world is not good. You CANNOT make yourself holy or garner favor from God by afflicting yourself. Adam and eve were holy and upright and they were commanded to have sex. They didn’t have to Labour or suffer in any way. So I don’t think monasticism is a good thing. It is totally unbiblical.
 
The opposite of pleasure is pain
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That is somewhat misleading; pleasure is perfected through pain, just as the body is perfected through physical exertion, and virtue through self-denial.

The greatest pleasures are spiritual.
Spiritual joys exceed bodily pleasures because the soul is more noble than the body, and because God is the Object of the former.
We are united to God by charity.
Charity reigns in suffering (it is perfected by sacrifice).
Therefore suffering is necessary to perfect joy (esp. considering our fallen nature).
The opposite of sex is celibacy
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Jesus was celibate. So was Our Lady, St. Joseph and the greater number of the Saints.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_cclergy_doc_01011993_theol_en.html
The opposite of joy is sorrow
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Not all sorrow is bad. Sorrow at the suffering of our loved ones, for example.
Monasticism for example is a demonic deception in my opinion.
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Tell that to St. Benedict.

7 Signs of the Evil Spirit (words of Our Lady to St. Bridget, Bk 4, Ch 23)

"First, it makes the world seem sweet, and heaven distasteful.

Second, it makes a man seek honors and forget about the meaning of his life.

Third, it arouses hatred and impatience in the heart.

Fourth, it makes him bold toward God and obstinate in his own plans.

Fifth, it leads him to make light of his sins and to make excuses for them.

Sixth, it inspires in him frivolity of mind and every carnal impurity.

Seventh, it inspires in him the hope of a long life and a feeling a shame about going to confession.

Guard your thoughts carefully, then, so that you do not get deceived by this spirit.”
 
someperson555 said:
The opposite of truth is lies
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Sort of. The opposite of truth is falsehood. Lies are falsehoods spread as truth with deliberate intent to deceive. It is possible for a person to sincerely believe that something false is actually true, and then spread this falsehood as truth. That is not a lie. It is unintentional misinformation by someone who means well but is him- or herself misinformed.
someperson555 said:
The opposite of love is hate
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This is a common misunderstanding. The opposite of love is indifference. You have to care an awful lot about something or someone to rise to the level of hatred.
someperson555 said:
So I think the works of the devil include but are not limited to murder, lies, celibacy, homosexuality, pain, sickness, hate, etc.
This is why I think many Christian practices are the devils attacks on the church. Monasticism for example is a demonic deception in my opinion.

The glorification of sickness, pain, and suffering as well as the shunning of the material world is not good. You CANNOT make yourself holy or garner favor from God by afflicting yourself. Adam and eve were holy and upright and they were commanded to have sex. They didn’t have to Labour or suffer in any way. So I don’t think monasticism is a good thing. It is totally unbiblical.
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Good can come from sickness, pain, suffering and deprivation. Some of us are sanctified chiefly through trials. I’ve learned more through the difficulties in life than through its joys.

I once heard someone say that summer is an easy season to like. Everyone enjoys being warm and comfortable, having the sun on his or her face, being surrounded by the lush greenery that comes with the season. Winter, however, is a challenge. Winter builds character. It is during winter that we find out what we’re really made of. So it is with the challenges of monastic life, but this is not to say there is no happiness to be found in it.

The monastic communities I have had contact with do not shun the material world. They forego its pleasures to devote themselves completely to the spiritual life, but they often do so in the material world and not totally shut off from it. Their example serves, among other things, to show the rest of us the beauty of giving everything to God. This is also possible outside of monasticism, and most people are called to find ways of achieving this through life in the world. But it’s not an either-or proposition. Both approaches are valid, and done correctly are both pleasing to the Lord.

A Cistercian monk at the Lérins Abbey in southern France recounted a conversation he had with a man from the mainland (Lérins is on an island) who said what the monks are doing, the way they live their lives, serves no purpose. The monks response is that their goal isn’t to serve a purpose. Their goal is to serve God.

I will let someone more adept than I at Scriptural interpretation address the “unbiblical” allegation.
 
^^^this…and:

You have a partially correct premise which is leading you to error.

It is true that Satan can not create, so must pervert and manipulate those things which are good, or exploit the nature of fallen creation, including fallen man. Tha does not mean your list of examples is correct in any way, because those things don’t necessarily follow causatively. For example, as the above poster notes, celibacy is not evil, else it wouldn’t have been practiced by our Lord and Lady; rather the perversion of holy sex is fornication, incest, and, dare I say, homosexuality. Likewise, if suffering was evil, Holy God wouldn’t have used suffering to redeem a fallen race.

Better to read the saints, the Bible, and the Doctors of the Church on evil; also, Jesus tells us that His sheep hear His voice and know it (John 10), so the key is to be close to God, and you won’t be fooled by a counterfeit.
 
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someperson555:
Dark and cold are not things in themselves but rather absence of things.
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Fair enough. You’ve established a premise. Without light or heat you get darkness and cold.
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someperson555:
The opposite of life is death
The opposite of truth is lies
The opposite of love is hate
The opposite of pleasure is pain
The opposite of sex is celibacy
The opposite of heterosexuality is homosexuality
The opposite of joy is sorrow
The opposite of health is sickness.
Click to expand...
But you haven’t applied your premise correctly in some of your proposed ‘opposites’.
The absence of life is non-life. Death is the end process of life.
The absence of truth is not necessarily lies. Lies can be very creative.
The absence of pleasure is just that, no pleasure. It’s not the same as pain.
The absence of heterosexuality is asexuality.
The absence of joy is not necessarily sorrow. Emotion is not a binary state. There’s a wide spectrum of human emotions between and beyond joy and sorrow.
 
The opposite of sex is celibacy? No. Sex can be good or bad depending on the context. It can be pleasing to God or a sin. Celibacy means being unmarried or abstaining from sex for the kingdom of God.
 
someperson555 said:
So I think I’ve figured out how to know the works of Satan. You see the devil works in opposites. Sin and virtue is like light and dark and heat and cold. Dark and cold are not things in themselves but rather absence of things. I believe the devil caused sin in such a way He never created anything since he has no power to do so. Rather he twists nature or he negates it. SI here are some examples
The opposite of life is death
The opposite of truth is lies
The opposite of love is hate
The opposite of pleasure is pain
The opposite of sex is celibacy
The opposite of heterosexuality is homosexuality
The opposite of joy is sorrow
The opposite of health is sickness.

So I think the works of the devil include but are not limited to murder, lies, celibacy, homosexuality, pain, sickness, hate, etc.
This is why I think many Christian practices are the devils attacks on the church. Monasticism for example is a demonic deception in my opinion.

The glorification of sickness, pain, and suffering as well as the shunning of the material world is not good. You CANNOT make yourself holy or garner favor from God by afflicting yourself. Adam and eve were holy and upright and they were commanded to have sex. They didn’t have to Labour or suffer in any way. So I don’t think monasticism is a good thing. It is totally unbiblical.
Click to expand...
What is “monasticism”?
 
UpUpAndAway said:
Sort of. The opposite of truth is falsehood. Lies are falsehoods spread as truth with deliberate intent to deceive. It is possible for a person to sincerely believe that something false is actually true, and then spread this falsehood as truth. That is not a lie. It is unintentional misinformation by someone who means well but is him- or herself misinformed.

This is a common misunderstanding. The opposite of love is indifference. You have to care an awful lot about something or someone to rise to the level of hatred.

Good can come from sickness, pain, suffering and deprivation. Some of us are sanctified chiefly through trials. I’ve learned more through the difficulties in life than through its joys.

I once heard someone say that summer is an easy season to like. Everyone enjoys being warm and comfortable, having the sun on his or her face, being surrounded by the lush greenery that comes with the season. Winter, however, is a challenge. Winter builds character. It is during winter that we find out what we’re really made of. So it is with the challenges of monastic life, but this is not to say there is no happiness to be found in it.

The monastic communities I have had contact with do not shun the material world. They forego its pleasures to devote themselves completely to the spiritual life, but they often do so in the material world and not totally shut off from it. Their example serves, among other things, to show the rest of us the beauty of giving everything to God. This is also possible outside of monasticism, and most people are called to find ways of achieving this through life in the world. But it’s not an either-or proposition. Both approaches are valid, and done correctly are both pleasing to the Lord.

A Cistercian monk at the Lérins Abbey in southern France recounted a conversation he had with a man from the mainland (Lérins is on an island) who said what the monks are doing, the way they live their lives, serves no purpose. The monks response is that their goal isn’t to serve a purpose. Their goal is to serve God.

I will let someone more adept than I at Scriptural interpretation address the “unbiblical” allegation.
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You are correct on your first two replies. I was thinking of falsehoods. I just used the wrong word.
Also I was aware of the love thing when I composed this. I. I thought since love is willing the good for another human being (pure empathy) the opposite must be I’ll will or spite. But I concede that the opposite of love is apathy.

I acknowledge that hardship and suffering can serve a purpose but only when it is used as a means to an end. But what I see on religious forums is that many religious ( not just Christians) view it as an end in itself.
Remember suffering was not originally a part of God’s plan. It’s true that.after the fall he incorporated it into his plan. But that suffering is still evil and meant to be fought against. Not to be seeked out.
I think part of the devils tactics is to repulse people from God and his path. Celibacy and asceticism are unbiblical according to my studies. I study the most authentic version of the bible. I reject Paul’s letters and all apocrypha except revelation. If you study just the original old testament and only the gospels you will find that it is really not that extreme. My Point is as long as you don’t fall into lawlessness, every pleasure is allowed. For even Paul says " everything that comes from God is good"
 
nuntym said:
+JMJ+

Wow, uhm, probably time to remove “orthodox Christian” from your Religion field then.
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Actually I don’t totally reject Paul’s letters and apocrypha. But I do take it with a heavy grain of salt. These documents contain false teachings which are even pointed out in the footnotes of normal bibles. I’m just saying that it’s beneficial to study the original bible. The nsrv is a good place to.start.
But as I pointed out, even Paul doesn’t teach us to be so negative about the material world.
 
someperson555 said:
My Point is as long as you don’t fall into lawlessness, every pleasure is allowed. For even Paul says " everything that comes from God is good"
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He didn’t say, “everything that comes from God feels good.”
 
+JMJ+
someperson555 said:
Actually I don’t totally reject Paul’s letters and apocrypha. But I do take it with a heavy grain of salt. These documents contain false teachings which are even pointed out in the footnotes of normal bibles. I’m just saying that it’s beneficial to study the original bible. The nsrv is a good place to.start.
But as I pointed out, even Paul doesn’t teach us to be so negative about the material world.
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Well OK I understand sometimes it can be hard to be clear with what you want to say.

But I never did also find anything in Scripture nor in Catholic teaching that says we have to be negative about the material world. In fact, it is just because the material world is so good that, for one, it is easy for man to abuse everything in this world, and the ascetic practices correct that with proper guidance.

Secondly, without the inherent goodness of the material world the Catholic practices of clerical celibacy and monasticism, among others, would lose their meanings. We esteem the goods of this world so much that it is appropriate for us to sacrifice them for an even greater good: God.

Finally, the healthy attitude when it comes to studying Scripture is not to judge whether this or that part of Scripture is correct or not, but to be wary of one’s ability to understand it.
 
Ever read “The Screwtape Letters” by C. S. Lewis?

I think there is some similar thinking mentioned in there…
 
nuntym said:
+JMJ+

Well OK I understand sometimes it can be hard to be clear with what you want to say.

But I never did also find anything in that says we have to be negative about the material world. In fact, it is just because the material world is so good that, for one, it is easy for man to abuse everything in this world, and the ascetic practices correct that with proper guidance.

Secondly, without the inherent goodness of the material world the Catholic practices of clerical celibacy and monasticism, among others, would lose their meanings. We esteem the goods of this world so much that it is appropriate for us to sacrifice them for an even greater good: God.

Finally, the healthy attitude when it comes to studying Scripture is not to judge whether this or that part of Scripture is correct or not, but to be wary of one’s ability to understand it.
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It’s my fault. Sometimes I’m not clear.
I see what you’re.saying. You are right there is the danger of falling into lawlessness, but that is what we have the law for. Handed down by Moses and confirmed by Jesus. I’m sorry but Clerical celibacy is a grave mistake which I think the church needs to correct as soon as possible. It’s one thing to have a section of people who renounce worldly pleasures to seek God in private. But to create an impediment for the dispensers of graces is very dangerous! I have reverted to christianity, and I even accept the need of sacraments. Still don’t consider myself catholic. But I do understand the need of sacraments.
 
CatholicRaven said:
Ever read “The Screwtape Letters” by C. S. Lewis?

I think there is some similar thinking mentioned in there…
Click to expand...
I have never read it unfortunately, but I plan to one day. You know, vs Lewis would probably agree with me on monasticism.😃
 
someperson555 said:
Actually I don’t totally reject Paul’s letters and apocrypha. But I do take it with a heavy grain of salt. These documents contain false teachings which are even pointed out in the footnotes of normal bibles. I’m just saying that it’s beneficial to study the original bible. The nsrv is a good place to.start.
But as I pointed out, even Paul doesn’t teach us to be so negative about the material world.
Click to expand...
I think it’s safe to say it’s wiser to trust Scripture–which is God-inspired–and the Church that was entrusted with it, more than scholarly footnotes. I am not anti-intellectual by any stretch, but I can’t imagine basing one’s view of scripture in less than infallible teaching.
 
someperson555 said:
Code: 
   Celibacy and asceticism are unbiblical according to my studies.  I study the most authentic version of the bible.  I reject Paul's letters and all apocrypha except revelation.  If you study just the original old testament and only the gospels you will find that  it is really not that extreme.    My Point is as long as you don't fall into lawlessness, every pleasure is allowed.  For even Paul says " everything that comes from God is good"
Click to expand...
How did you come to determine the version you use is the most authentic?

How can you use Something Paul wrote in his letter to defend your position, when you have ruled out his letters as inspired Scripture?
 
someperson555 said:
It’s my fault. Sometimes I’m not clear.
I see what you’re.saying. You are right there is the danger of falling into lawlessness, but that is what we have the law for. Handed down by Moses and confirmed by Jesus. I’m sorry but Clerical celibacy is a grave mistake which I think the church needs to correct as soon as possible. It’s one thing to have a section of people who renounce worldly pleasures to seek God in private. But to create an impediment for the dispensers of graces is very dangerous! I have reverted to christianity, and I even accept the need of sacraments. Still don’t consider myself catholic. But I do understand the need of sacraments.
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You seem to have a very bent perspective on celibacy. Have you told Jesus that He was engaged in evil while on earth?

Why do you reject His teaching about celibacy?

Catholics accept both His word and His example that celibacy is a gift. The Latin Rite prefers to choose from among those who have received this gift to serve as priests.
someperson555 said:
Code: 
 You know, vs Lewis would probably agree with me on monasticism.:D
Click to expand...
What is “monastaicism”?
 
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