How to discuss Catholicism with a pompous Catholic?

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A friend of mine has shifted to FSSP-style Catholicism from the more common Novus Ordo style.

With his shift, he started trying to “sell” the Tridentine style Mass to me and our friends, and I was the only one who attended that Mass regularly even though I wasn’t even Catholic (literally the rest of our mutual friends are)…don’t worry, I didn’t take Communion! 🙂

Anyway, he and I enjoy discussing religion and such, but with his shift he’s gotten extremely critical of all religions outside of Catholicism, and even with Novus Ordo Catholics he goes on about how they need to “come back to their roots” and celebrate Tridentine style.

He’s also telling me to “come back home” and convert back to Catholicism and extremely dismissive about anything I bring up about the Episcopal Church, my worship practices, my view on the saints, etc. Very pompous, dismissive, critical, and uncharitable too!

Have any of you dealt with someone like this? It’s so frustrating because this haughty pompousness is driving me even further from Catholicism, and putting a wedge between our friendship.
 
Episcopalian said:
this haughty pompousness is driving me even further from Catholicism, and putting a wedge between our friendship.
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It’s obviously difficult to remain on friendly terms with someone whose only subject of conversation is “You’re wrong and I’m right.” But try not to let it put you off the Catholic Church!
 
OK - I am going to answer this later today… kind of swamped at the moment.
 
Episcopalian said:
Have any of you dealt with someone like this? It’s so frustrating because this haughty pompousness is driving me even further from Catholicism, and putting a wedge between our friendship.
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Often. The first thing to try is to tell him outright something along the lines of “I value your friendship, but if you continue to behave this way (specify what behavior is objectionable) I will have no choice but to stop talking with you” and “If you really want me to consider Catholicism then you need to stop trying to bully me into it”. The next of course is to end the friendship and stop interacting.
 
Some people are overbearing. Your friend probably means no harm. But you have a right to your own beliefs.
Whenever discussing religion or politics, arguments may ensue.
 
He is worried about your salvation, extra ecclesiam nulla salus, mate.
You are outside of Jesus’ Church. He has so much fillial love for you that he cares and wants you to have the abilty to be with him in heaven.
 
CarmeliteKnight said:
He has so much fillial love for you
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If that were really true ISTM that he would be using better tactics to accomplish the task. As a general rule, bullying someone into converting doesn’t work, at least not for the long haul.
 
Bonus points for finding a way to look well upon his bad behavior, but how can he have so much love and still be going about it so wrong? If he really wants to convert his friends, he should examine his method and figure out why it’s not working.

Also note that he does not speak well of other Catholics. He wants them to join his club, which has nothing to do with extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
 
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First off, he is human. He isn’t perfect. Secondly, dont attribute to malice what ignorance can explain better.

What OP’s friend needs to do is read “The Old Evangelization” by Eric Sammons (published by CA, of course)
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He has discovered something good and beautiful that has been hidden from him and he wants others to have it too. That’s not pompous unless he’s crediting himself with coming up with it (most people who discover the Church’s traditions love it precisely because it is tradition–something handed on–and not a recent invention). If he didn’t care about you and want your good, he wouldn’t bother.

Be patient with the zeal that comes from the excitement of such a discovery. In Scripture there are those whom the Lord commands to not go tell everyone about Him after they come to know and love Him, but they can’t contain themselves and end up disobeying him, doing so anyway, which actually impedes His movement into certain places. Likewise, such a zeal can certainly annoy and impede the movement of the truth into a heart not totally ready for it.

As other have said, tell him how you feel and ask him for the same patience with you that you are willing to give him.
 
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I sort of feel your pain. There are members of our parish who would love nothing more than to have every Mass in the Tridentine form, and feel that anything else is wrong, along with communion in the hand, and a number of other things they feel as less than Catholic.

My simple remarks to them are, Christ’s first Eucharist was at a kitchen table, most likely in Aramaic or Hebrew, which everyone understood, and involved passing a loaf a bread around. Beyond that, man made changes to the original form.

Changes have been made throughout the centuries by the Church for better or worse, but the Eucharist remains the same.

I don’t understand Latin, have no desire to learn Latin, and can get as much out of going to the Spanish Mass, or Mass in any other language than English as I do when Latin is being used.

I am not praying if I don’t understand the words that I am saying.

Your friend should refrain from telling you what should be done, since in the US Diocese the Novus Ordo is just as valid a Mass as the Tridentine Mass is. Division inside the Catholic Church does no one any good, and taking a negative stance against someone who doesn’t share the same beliefs as he does wins no converts.
 
Were they ordained at the time of the Last Supper or days later when they received the Holy Spirit, and were told about forgiving sins and holding them bound?

Not trying to be argumentative, just don’t know if there is a definitive answer to when they were given all their powers as Priests/Bishops.

The Holy Spirit is instrumental in ordinations, as the means by which the ordination is completed. Correct?
 
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LumineDiei said:
since in the US Diocese the Novus Ordo is just as valid a Mass as the Tridentine Mass is.
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I took the poster as saying that the NO is just as legitimate, just as much allowed, as the TLM. But “valid” is not the word you want to use in that context. “Valid” pertains to whether it is actually a celebration of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in which the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ. In Catholic sacramental theology, “valid” has a very precise meaning.

The NO and the TLM are legitimate and allowed in every diocese in the world. Benedict XVI granted this permission (which some would say existed anyway, from the promulgation of Quo primum in 1570 by Pope St Pius V) in Summorum Pontificium.
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May not should have used valid, but assuming the Priest saying the Mass can legitimately do so, the Eucharist under either type of Mass is the Body and Blood of Christ.

That is what I was trying to get at when using “valid”.
 
whatistrue said:
Often. The first thing to try is to tell him outright something along the lines of “I value your friendship, but if you continue to behave this way (specify what behavior is objectionable) I will have no choice but to stop talking with you” and “If you really want me to consider Catholicism then you need to stop trying to bully me into it”. The next of course is to end the friendship and stop interacting.
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I second this. Firm, but polite.
 
Maybe you should tell your friend to concentrate on his own salvation rather than which is the correct mass…it is by the grace of God and through our baptism and faith in Jesus Christ we are saved…attending a Tridentine mass doesn’t save you anymore than todays mass.
 
Sometimes when someone gets “on fire” for something-- whether its Catholicism or Pampered Chef products-- they can be annoying and myopic.

Pray for your friend.
 
If it is bothering you, you should speak your mind. ‘New converts’ can be somewhat annoying when they try to force their belief onto you - religion, politics, vegetarianism etc; - but he probably doesn’t realise he’s stepping on your toes, so do both of yourselves a favour and speak your mind. He’ll see sense and relax.
 
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