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Allegra
Guest
No. I’m thinking the problem is that you don’t express yourself clearly in writing. I’m assuming English isn’t your first language.
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Pleroma
Guest
Yes, I am and I cannot take any spiritual pride for it for the heavenly Father has preordained it like this.So naturally, you are aware of “the correct message of Christ and his gospels”?
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Pleroma
Guest
I have expressed my views in plain simple words and I mean it. Which part of my post that you do not understand?No. I’m thinking the problem is that you don’t express yourself clearly in writing. I’m assuming English isn’t your first language.
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Allegra
Guest
First you criticize Hindus for not being Hindu enough because they don’t follow to the letter (in your opinion) a religion that predates them. But then later you say that they know more about Christ than Catholics do.First of all Hindus don’t know what it means to be a Hindu, no Hindu is following the Vedic Aryan religion and I do not consider them as Hindus.
Stop judging the Gentiles, if you try to evangelize highly intellectual Hindus then you’ll end up being evangelized into their religion yourself because they know more about the mystery of Christ than your fellow orthodox Catholics.
What makes you claim they know so much about Christ while you also claim that they don’t know their own business? That makes no sense and you provide no explaination for this statement. It’s also not a parable in any way. It’s just a critical opinon that you offer and then argue that you don’t have to be able to explain it because no one can understand it except for you.
I’m not sure what you mean by “stop judging the Gentiles” and I suppose you don’t care to elaborate on that either. If you don’t intend to at least attempt to explain yourself (preferably in English that we can understand) then why are you wasting your time criticizing others? Does it make you feel superior? If you feel that God has given you such an important mesage, then why don’t you express it clearly? Or if not, at least keep it to yourself and don’t be a troll.
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SteveVH
Guest
Please enlighten us as to the correct message of Christ. If you have received direct revelation from the Father, should you not be informing all of us? Please demonstrate where the Church has gone off the rails. Thanks.Yes, I am and I cannot take any spiritual pride for it for the heavenly Father has preordained it like this.
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Pleroma
Guest
Yes, I criticized Hindus for having forgotten their roots and for not knowing about things that exists in their own religious scriptures. I never said all Hindus know more about Christ than the Catholics, I said only a few intellectual Hindus who are aware of the traditions of both Hinduism and Christianity know more about Christ than your fellow Catholics.First you criticize Hindus for not being Hindu enough because they don’t follow to the letter (in your opinion) a religion that predates them. But then later you say that they know more about Christ than Catholics do.
What makes you claim they know so much about Christ while you also claim that they don’t know their own business? That makes no sense and you provide no explaination for this statement.
I did not said my post is a parable, I said your(Catholics/orthodox) interpretation of the Bible sucks for none of you in any of your Christian conferences preach truly about the mystery of Christ. You guys interpret the scriptures literally instead of taking it allegorically being ignorant of tradition and are delaying the redemption of others.It’s also not a parable in any way. It’s just a critical opinon that you offer and then argue that you don’t have to be able to explain it because no one can understand it except for you.
Orthodox Catholics will not receive anything from Christ unless and until they live the path of righteousness.
“Those who say they will die first and then rise are in error. If they do not first receive the resurrection while they live, when they die they will receive nothing.”
(Gospel of Philip)
A Gentile is a one who is neither a Jew nor a Christian, as a Gentile Christian I cannot start offending your religion and if the Father has not given such freedom to us then in the same way you should not judge the Gentiles being a psychic Christian yourself for the redemption and salvation of the Gentiles is different from that of yours.I’m not sure what you mean by “stop judging the Gentiles” and I suppose you don’t care to elaborate on that either. If you don’t intend to at least attempt to explain yourself (preferably in English that we can understand) then why are you wasting your time criticizing others?
No, it makes me wise and a higher responsibility on my shoulders to make you guys return to the fullness of Christ.Does it make you feel superior? If you feel that God has given you such an important mesage, then why don’t you express it clearly? Or if not, at least keep it to yourself and don’t be a troll.
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Allegra
Guest
How do you intend to do that without explaining yourself? What do you mean by conferences? Do you have an example of Scripture that you feel we translate too literally? Do you think it is difficult to tell which parts of Scripture are written as an allegory and which parts are meant to be taken literaly? I find it actually near insanity that you accuse the Church of being ignorant of tradition, as it is one of few who actually consider tradition in its interpretation of Scripture. Most others base their theology soley on the interpretations of men who lived a thousand years after Christ, or on their own personal interpretation, which is done with no knowlege of tradition whatsoever. What tradition do you consider when interpreting Scripture?No, it makes me wise and a higher responsibility on my shoulders to make you guys return to the fullness of Christ.
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Darryl_B
Guest
It sounds kind of gnostic. Gnostism was a religion that absorbed other religions and then claimed a better understanding of the knowledge and wisdom of that religion than those who actually adhered to that religion.
The supposed better understanding of knowledge and wisdom does not get shared. It is termed a ‘secret’ that only a gnostic can attain to.
The supposed better understanding of knowledge and wisdom does not get shared. It is termed a ‘secret’ that only a gnostic can attain to.
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Pleroma
Guest
Yes, there is one all important verse which you guys interpret it too literally.How do you intend to do that without explaining yourself? What do you mean by conferences? Do you have an example of Scripture that you feel we translate too literally? Do you think it is difficult to tell which parts of Scripture are written as an allegory and which parts are meant to be taken literaly? I find it actually near insanity that you accuse the Church of being ignorant of tradition, as it is one of few who actually consider tradition in its interpretation of Scripture. Most others base their theology soley on the interpretations of men who lived a thousand years after Christ, or on their own personal interpretation, which is done with no knowlege of tradition whatsoever. What tradition do you consider when interpreting Scripture?
Col 2:9 In Christ dwells all the pleroma of deity in bodily form.
The correct message is that Pleroma has a local existence and forms the body of Christ i.e. all the aeons of the pleroma reside in Christ and form his mystical body and the message of his gospels is that we as Christians need not wait for the second coming and that we can embrace our angel here and now and return back to the fullness of the Pleroma, the body of Christ. This is the fullness of the Gentiles.
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Darryl_B
Guest
I am not quite sure why you are taking a generic word and turning it into a proper noun. Even going so far and to say “return back to the pleroma of the pleroma” or “return back to the fulness of the fulness”. Quantitative generic word. Fulness of the Gentiles is volume, count, not an abstract intangible quality. The earth is the Lords and the fulness (everything in it).Yes, there is one all important verse which you guys interpret it too literally.
Col 2:9 In Christ dwells all the pleroma of deity in bodily form.
The correct message is that Pleroma has a local existence and forms the body of Christ i.e. all the aeons of the pleroma reside in Christ and form his mystical body and the message of his gospels is that we as Christians need not wait for the second coming and that we can embrace our angel here and now and return back to the fullness of the Pleroma, the body of Christ. This is the fullness of the Gentiles.
Do you understand the Catholic teaching on sanctifying grace, we all received grace upon grace. Are you familiar with the Catholic teaching on Holy Spirit confirmation.
In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, which is the guarantee of our inheritance, until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Why have a guarantee now, if we can attain the inheritance now?
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Pleroma
Guest
That’s exactly what my criticism is, for you(Catholics) don’t follow the things that exists in your own scriptures. Either remove the Pauline epistles from the Biblical Canon by saying that we don’t adhere with those epistles or accept that Pleroma has a local existence and forms the body of Christ.I am not quite sure why you are taking a generic word and turning it into a proper noun. Even going so far and to say “return back to the pleroma of the pleroma” or “return back to the fulness of the fulness”. Quantitative generic word. Fulness of the Gentiles is volume, count, not an abstract intangible quality. The earth is the Lords and the fulness (everything in it).
The word Pleroma means the totality of divine powers, Aeons and it has a local existence, a physical existence and forms the mystical body of Christ. Your interpretation of the scriptures truly sucks and don’t try to convince me otherwise for I very well know what I am arguing for.
On the meaning of the word Pleroma by J.B Lightfoot
The early Christians very well knew that Pleroma has a local existence and its just doesn’t simply mean fullness. As it turns out my criticism is quite right, you guys indeed interpret the scriptures too literally having no knowledge of the hidden esoteric meaning behind it.
Do you understand the Catholic teaching on sanctifying grace, we all received grace upon grace. Are you familiar with the Catholic teaching on Holy Spirit confirmation.
In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, which is the guarantee of our inheritance, until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
I am sorry salvation has not been promised to bodies. The body of Christ is not made of flesh instead its made of the totality of the divine powers, Aeons. Salvation is only possible by knowing the Father, Jesus Christ and everything else pales before it.Why have a guarantee now, if we can attain the inheritance now?
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LivingWaters7
Guest
What is the correct message?Yes, I am and I cannot take any spiritual pride for it for the heavenly Father has preordained it like this.
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SteveVH
Guest
This is nothing but Gnosticism rearing its ugly head once again. Your arrogance is consistent with your belief that you are enlightened and have received revelation hidden from the rest of the world, even from the Church that Christ founded, while the rest of us remain in darkness. You cannot support any of your assertions, therefore they remain just that; assertions.That’s exactly what my criticism is, for you(Catholics) don’t follow the things that exists in your own scriptures. Either remove the Pauline epistles from the Biblical Canon by saying that we don’t adhere with those epistles or accept that Pleroma has a local existence and forms the body of Christ.
The word Pleroma means the totality of divine powers, Aeons and it has a local existence, a physical existence and forms the mystical body of Christ. Your interpretation of the scriptures truly sucks and don’t try to convince me otherwise for I very well know what I am arguing for.
On the meaning of the word Pleroma by J.B Lightfoot
The early Christians very well knew that Pleroma has a local existence and its just doesn’t simply mean fullness. As it turns out my criticism is quite right, you guys indeed interpret the scriptures too literally having no knowledge of the hidden esoteric meaning behind it.
I am sorry salvation has not been promised to bodies. The body of Christ is not made of flesh instead its made of the totality of the divine powers, Aeons. Salvation is only possible by knowing the Father, Jesus Christ and everything else pales before it.
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Pleroma
Guest
The correct message is this.What is the correct message?
“Christ has each within him, whether human being or angel or mystery” (Gospel of Philip 56:14-15).
“People cannot see anything in the real realm unless they become it…if you have seen the spirit, you have become the spirit; if you have seen Christ, you have become Christ; if you have seen the Father, you will become the Father” (Gospel of Philip 61:20-32 cf. 67:26-27)
Its called as Realized Eschatology.
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SteveVH
Guest
Should the name of this thread be changed to “How to evangelize Gnostics”?
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SteveVH
Guest
Do you think that anyone here really cares what the “Gospel of Phillip” says. Do you think it is somehow authoritative?The correct message is this.
“Christ has each within him, whether human being or angel or mystery” (Gospel of Philip 56:14-15).
“People cannot see anything in the real realm unless they become it…if you have seen the spirit, you have become the spirit; if you have seen Christ, you have become Christ; if you have seen the Father, you will become the Father” (Gospel of Philip 61:20-32 cf. 67:26-27)
Its called as Realized Eschatology.
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Pleroma
Guest
Yeah, the gnosis of the heart is not something which you get it for free, you need to earn it. You have got no idea as to what extent I can defend my views on Christianity and this time its not going to be so easy to suppress us for the evidence is on our side and the glory of Christ will live forever.This is nothing but Gnosticism rearing its ugly head once again. Your arrogance is consistent with your belief that you are enlightened and have received revelation hidden from the rest of the world, even from the Church that Christ founded, while the rest of us remain in darkness. You cannot support any of your assertions, therefore they remain just that; assertions.
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Pleroma
Guest
Just because it is not in your biblical canon doesn’t mean its not worthy of anything, you don’t care but I do and it is for the same reason that I criticize the Chruch for being ignorant of other traditions who revere Christ and know his mysteries more than what the Catholic Chruch knows.Do you think that anyone here really cares what the “Gospel of Phillip” says. Do you think it is somehow authoritative?
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SteveVH
Guest
Then I would suggest that you start a gnostic thread on which you can wow us with your wisdom and knowledge and not derail this one.Yeah, the gnosis of the heart is not something which you get it for free, you need to earn it. You have got no idea as to what extent I can defend my views on Christianity and this time its not going to be so easy to suppress us for the evidence is on our side and the glory of Christ will live forever.
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SteveVH
Guest
If you manage to stay around here for more than 100 posts (which is doubtful, IMO) you just might learn how much we do know about other faith traditions, including the heresy of Gnosticism.Just because it is not in your biblical canon doesn’t mean its not worthy of anything, you don’t care but I do and it is for the same reason that I criticize the Chruch for being ignorant of other traditions who revere Christ and know his mysteries more than what the Catholic Chruch knows.
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