How to Explain...like Miss Manners

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Miserissima

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My conversion is going slowly due to transportation and scheduling issues, but I attend Divine Liturgy at least three out of four weekends / month.

The Director of Liturgy and Music at my former parish (we used to be close friends, separate issue) has made many heartfelt comments along the lines of, “I wish you would be Catholic again,” or, “Divine Liturgy, that’s not Mass,” or any number of misconceptions. A

The pastor understands as my Mission priest used to be one of the pastor’s professors in seminary, and the monsignor who used to be at our parish grew up Ruthenian so when I approached them with my needs, they readily supported me.

The music director isn’t as well versed in a lot of “church stuff,” and would call me with questions, sometimes looking for a reference on behalf of the pastor, so I need a way to explain that Eastern Catholics are fully Catholic without a history lesson.

Any ideas?
 
Catholocism for Dummies has a chapter on the eastern churches in union. It’s been pretty useful for me to shove that at particularly obstinately ignorant Romans.
 
5Loaves said:
Tell me again where we Russian Greek Catholic Church parishes in the US are shown in those stats.
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I think they are not included. From CNEWA we get:

Russian - Five parishes registered in Siberia, and in Moscow there are two parishes and one pastoral center that are not registered with the authorities. There is also one non-registered community in Obninsk and a community in Saint Petersburg. Four Russian Byzantine Catholic worshiping communities in the United States, two each in Argentina, France, and Germany, and one each in Australia, Brazil, and Italy. All of them fall under the jurisdiction of the local Latin bishops.

Belarusan - 2005: 3,000 faithful, 10 priests.

Albanian - a small parish that is associated with a community of Basilian Sisters of St. Macrina located in Elbasan.
 
Miserissima said:
My conversion is going slowly due to transportation and scheduling issues, but I attend Divine Liturgy at least three out of four weekends / month.

The Director of Liturgy and Music at my former parish (we used to be close friends, separate issue) has made many heartfelt comments along the lines of, “I wish you would be Catholic again,” or, “Divine Liturgy, that’s not Mass,” or any number of misconceptions. A

The pastor understands as my Mission priest used to be one of the pastor’s professors in seminary, and the monsignor who used to be at our parish grew up Ruthenian so when I approached them with my needs, they readily supported me.

The music director isn’t as well versed in a lot of “church stuff,” and would call me with questions, sometimes looking for a reference on behalf of the pastor, so I need a way to explain that Eastern Catholics are fully Catholic without a history lesson.

Any ideas?
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This isn’t exactly an answer to your question, but it amazes me (not in a good way) that he/she assumes that *you *have the “burden of proof”, to convince him/her that ECs are really Catholic. 😦
 
Peter_J said:
This isn’t exactly an answer to your question, but it amazes me (not in a good way) that he/she assumes that *you *have the “burden of proof”, to convince him/her that ECs are really Catholic. 😦
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I don’t understand it, i.e., with all the information one has nowadays ignorance should be a non-issue, but if it is ignorance than be humble enough to concede you might be wrong or that you don’t know everything.

p.s. I hope this an opportunity for positive change.
 
Vico said:
I think they are not included. From CNEWA we get:

Russian - Five parishes registered in Siberia, and in Moscow there are two parishes and one pastoral center that are not registered with the authorities. There is also one non-registered community in Obninsk and a community in Saint Petersburg. Four Russian Byzantine Catholic worshiping communities in the United States, two each in Argentina, France, and Germany, and one each in Australia, Brazil, and Italy. All of them fall under the jurisdiction of the local Latin bishops.
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I just find it odd in every publication that uses the stats coming from Fr. Ron Roberson/Annuario Pontificio we never make an appearance.

In “Ordinariates for the Faithful of Various Eastern Catholic Churches Without Their Own Hierarchy” are included Argentina, Austria, Brazil, France, Poland. So are our parishes in Argentina and France included in the stats there or not? 🤷 Who knows…
 
5Loaves said:
I just find it odd in every publication that uses the stats coming from Fr. Ron Roberson/Annuario Pontificio we never make an appearance.

In “Ordinariates for the Faithful of Various Eastern Catholic Churches Without Their Own Hierarchy” are included Argentina, Austria, Brazil, France, Poland. So are our parishes in Argentina and France included in the stats there or not? 🤷 Who knows…
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Russian Catholic under the care of a Latin church hierarch varies with jurisdiction, so in those areas where there are “Ordinariates for the Faithful of Various Eastern Catholic Churches Without Their Own Hierarchy” it includes all the faithful in that category. For the USA, the Latin Church statistics would have to reflect them to make any sense. And there are various Military Ordinariates which are multi-church jurisdiction. It is a practical matter of compiling statistics which has to reply upon reports from dioceses or equivalent, per jurisdiction. There are 8 eastern ordinariates and 32 military ordinatiates, and that does not cover all the easterns. The Latin Church has a particular responsibility outside the ancient Patriarchial jurisdictions to help the eastern faithful.

See: gcatholic.org/dioceses/types.htm
 
josie_L said:
I don’t understand it, i.e., with all the information one has nowadays ignorance should be a non-issue, but if it is ignorance than be humble enough to concede you might be wrong or that you don’t know everything.

p.s. I hope this an opportunity for positive change.
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👍
 
🙂
Aramis said:
Catholocism for Dummies has a chapter on the eastern churches in union. It’s been pretty useful for me to shove that at particularly obstinately ignorant Romans.
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Aramis, great minds think alike 😉

I’ve copied the short chapter last year for her, but still get the “snide” remarks. (I can’t think of another word, and I’m petty sure there is no intent to insult me.) Everything I’ve provided so far, even loaning a copy of Light

Is there a leaflet or flyer that is even less…wordy and has some sources cited?

Know what? At this point I’d like to give up but I just can’t. Perhaps I’m not meant to convince anyone, but only plant a seed. Hmm…
 
Peter_J said:
This isn’t exactly an answer to your question, but it amazes me (not in a good way) that he/she assumes that *you *have the “burden of proof”, to convince him/her that ECs are really Catholic. 😦
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It’s not her fault, just poor catechesis. That’s why I was humbled instead of being jealous of I did research for her. That’s another reason, though, why the skepticism grates on me so much.
 
Miserissima said:
It’s not her fault, just poor catechesis. That’s why I was humbled instead of being jealous of I did research for her. That’s another reason, though, why the skepticism grates on me so much.
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Wait…you said the pastor used to be the student of your mission priest? Shouldn’t it be his job to educate the Director of Music and Liturgy?
 
angelic06 said:
Wait…you said the pastor used to be the student of your mission priest?
Shouldn’t it be his job to educate the Director of Music and Liturgy?
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When I first went to my pastor, I went with a clear understanding of what I was looking into and explained things like why I felt drawn to the EC and demonstrated a knowledge of what my responsibilities are in the interim. The director followed up with me and told me his impressions, and it seemed that we were all pleased.

My second visit, I explained that I felt truly called to do this over a very long timeline (due to transportation issues) and would also be attending the parish for HDOs, irregular Sunday Masses, and following the WC’s cycle until my ‘transfer’ was complete.

His support has been fabulous. Because I irregularly go to Mass when I can’t get to Divine Liturgy (and classes), folks don’t see me as much as they were used to.

I’m not going to pull the pastor into this, because I would not go to him about a personal matter about another parishioner, much less a member of staff. There is so much on his radar I can’t imagine how it could help. As far as educating her, well, she is supposed to do research for him on things (which meant, at one time, a lot of calling me). I’m not going to ‘throw her under the bus’ with this.

He is the only priest in the large parish and in the last two years, the parish has been revitalized through his efforts, activities, ministries, etc. it’s not the same parish I joined; it’s vibrant and active now.

I just think that telling him I’m getting a hard time shouldn’t even be on his radar because I don’t want to tattle, I don’t want to take up his time until I’m ready to thank him for his support, and I do believe that the folks who don’t know/understand are acting with good intentions.
 
josie_L said:
I don’t understand it, i.e., with all the information one has nowadays ignorance should be a non-issue, but if it is ignorance than be humble enough to concede you might be wrong or that you don’t know everything.

p.s. I hope this an opportunity for positive change.
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I agree with this, but…there are people who don’t have enough hours in the day to Google, our who do not have the motivation or…what us the word…inclination to look things up due to circumstance, nature of their personalities, level of sincere interest, or…a myriad of things.

The director does not have the mindset of a Google armchair researcher.
I’m not speaking badly of her, but it’s just not part of her nature.

What really, really bothers me is that she not only followed up with Father already (so she knows I have.his blessing, if you will), but I’m getting feedback from other folks as well. Shrug.

I need to find a bottom-line-up-front leaflet to hand off. I would make one, but being emotionally involved, I don’t.know what to put in it.

Wait…when did I turn this into group therapy? Sorry, all. But yes, I appreciate the responses and feedback.
 
Miserissima said:
I need to find a bottom-line-up-front leaflet to hand off. I would make one, but being emotionally involved, I don’t.know what to put in it.

Wait…when did I turn this into group therapy? Sorry, all. But yes, I appreciate the responses and feedback.
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I will make that pamphlet with you if you would like. It would be in this style if I made it.

I offer to create one on Eastern Catholicism. I also offer to assist and edit one for each of the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches. Someone else would need to do the information gathering for the individual church pamphlets. I’ll do the bulk of the work for the general pamphlet.

Please let me know if this interests you.
 
Sorry, CDB. I got so happy I posted the first thing in my head…!

Can you make one up that explains Eastern Catholics are fully Catholic and that Divine Liturgy counts as Mass? That type of pamphlet is perfect.

Is that hosted on your parish site? It’s a great site.
 
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