How to explain Marian Intercession to a non-Catholic

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Francis_W28

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Hello again,

My girlfriend and I have had many deep discussions about the Catholic faith recently and while she is willing to adopt many of the beliefs, she can’t quite wrap her mind around praying to Mary or the saints and having them intercede for her.

I have read many of the Catholic Answers articles to her and we have listened to podcasts as well. I am not sure what else to tell her.
Maybe asking her to pray the rosary with me or suggesting that she try praying to Mary or a saint and see how it works out for her.

Any support would be appreciated!

-Francis
 
Let’s just say that she and Jesus were… CLOSE,
she was w/ Him at His first Miracle, the changing
of water into wine, and she was accompanying her
on His missionary journey(Matt. 27:55) and was
there at the Cross. How better to know Jesus than
thru her? How better to reach Jesus than thru her
intercession?
 
Francis_W28 said:
Hello again,

My girlfriend and I have had many deep discussions about the Catholic faith recently and while she is willing to adopt many of the beliefs, she can’t quite wrap her mind around praying to Mary or the saints and having them intercede for her.

I have read many of the Catholic Answers articles to her and we have listened to podcasts as well. I am not sure what else to tell her.
Maybe asking her to pray the rosary with me or suggesting that she try praying to Mary or a saint and see how it works out for her.

Any support would be appreciated!

-Francis
Click to expand...
Don’t throw theology at her right off.

Does she ever ask anyone to pray for her? Or is she all alone in the world?
If she asks others to pray for her, why would she not ask the mother of Jesus to pray for her?
Does she believe the Gospel accounts of the annunciation? Did God choose a woman, or is Mary an accident of history?

I find it hard to fathom that bible-believing Christians would not pray to Mary.
 
the way I explained it to a friend was this:

The fast food cashier takes your order. The cook prepares your order.

The cashier is like Mary, you pray to her, asking for her intercession, but the prayers are taken to Jesus, because who would be closer to Jesus than his own MOTHER?

So, Mary is sort of like the cashier at a fast food restaurant…he takes your order (prayers) to the cook (God).

I know it sounds weird, but the guy I was explaining this to liked to eat Wendys or something…so I was trying to use terms he’d understand.

(he ended up joining the Catholic church about 6or 7 years ago)

If that doesn’t work…we ask people to pray for us, why can’t we ask Mary, JESUS’ MOM, to pray for US?
 
When she was child, most likely she went to her mother at some point to soften something, or smooth something over with daddy.
Same deal.
Our Lady of the Mother of the Most High.
She takes our concerns to her Divine Son. He looks favorably on her requests because of the love HE has for her.
Saint reside in heaven. Why wouldn’t we ask them to put in a good word for us?
Part of the process for becoming a canonized Saint is performing of miracles.
Might as well be us, eh?

Good luck.
 
If she wanted a new dress for the prom, wouldn’t she ask her mom to ask her dad for the money? If you dent the fender on the family car or bring home an ‘F’ grade, don’t you tell your mom first? St. James tells us to pray for one another, who better to pray to than The Mom of Moms?
 
I texted my wife yesterday about this because she was talking to someone that was saying it was wrong to pray to them.

I wrote her this. One cannot pray to them as in adoration/worship. One can pray to them for their intercession asking them to ask Jesus for them. Same as you would tell your grandmother to pray for you who is alive here on earth. We ask the saints who are in heaven and no longer sin at all whatsoever to help us in prayer to God. A saint has more powerful prayers than a current sinner.
 
I agree with all the above and want to add.

I believe that our Lord knew that we needed a mother. In this day and age when there are so many mothers who are abandoning their children, or those of us who have lost our Earthly mother, and even those of us who are mothers who so often make mistakes with our children: we especially need a mother. Who better can mother us than the Mother of God. She said “yes” to God was He was conceived. She said “yes” to Him when He told us through John, “Behold your Mother.” I am so grateful to our Lord Jesus Christ for allowing us to share in the love that Mary gave Him.
 
We can’t pretend to know Jesus if we don’t know his mother.

Jesus is God’s full revelation of himself. How did God reveal Jesus?
*God himself *gave us Christ through Mary.
God himself did that.

And some of us imagine he appeared without benefit of a mother.
 
It might help to clarify the definition of “pray”.

When Catholics pray to God we are using the definition: “worship of or adoration of a deity”.

When Catholics pray to Saints we are using the definition: “to ask/request something” in this context it was used in Old English a lot.

We never “worship” Saints.
 
You don’t say what faith tradition, if any, your girlfriend is from, but if she is from a Reformed Protestant background, you may have more difficulties than you think. All the answers here are about the relationship Mary has to Jesus; no one would dispute you on that. The issue for most Reformed Protestants is that YOU DO NOT PRAY TO THE DEAD. The dead are dead and there is to be NO communication with them, either speaking with them, or asking for prayers.

So of course when that is the bottom line, any prayers to the saints or to Mary are quite out of the question.
 
If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking. But when you ask him, be sure that your faith is in God alone. Do not waver, for a person with divided loyalty is as unsettled as a wave of the sea that is blown and tossed by the wind. (James 1:5-6)

This is from James, JESUS’ real life brother from the same mother. I would follow what he says. He would know as well as or better than anyone.
 
Even_So said:
If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking. But when you ask him, be sure that your faith is in God alone. Do not waver, for a person with divided loyalty is as unsettled as a wave of the sea that is blown and tossed by the wind. (James 1:5-6)

This is from James, JESUS’ real life brother from the same mother. I would follow what he says. He would know as well as or better than anyone.
Click to expand...
James mother was another woman called Mary, not the same Mary that gave birth to Jesus. (refer below)

“There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him; among who were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” (Matt. 27:56; see also Mark 15:40)

James and Jesus were not biological brothers but were brothers in every other sense of the word.

“The earliest explanation of the “brothers” of the Lord is found in a document known as the Protoevangelium of James, which was written around A.D. 150. It speaks of Mary as a consecrated virgin since her youth, and of St. Joseph as an elderly widower with children who was chosen to be Mary’s spouse for the purposes of guarding and protecting her while respecting her vow of virginity. Though this document is not on the level of Sacred Scripture, it was written very early, and it may contain accurate historical traditions.” catholic.com
 
ComplineSanFran said:
You don’t say what faith tradition, if any, your girlfriend is from, but if she is from a Reformed Protestant background, you may have more difficulties than you think. All the answers here are about the relationship Mary has to Jesus; no one would dispute you on that. The issue for most Reformed Protestants is that YOU DO NOT PRAY TO THE DEAD. The dead are dead and there is to be NO communication with them, either speaking with them, or asking for prayers.

So of course when that is the bottom line, any prayers to the saints or to Mary are quite out of the question.
Click to expand...
The thing is in the Catholic faith not communicating with the dead means something else so, I’ll point to Deuteronomy 18:10-12.

10 Let there not be found among you anyone who causes their son or daughter to pass through the fire,*or practices divination, or is a soothsayer, augur, or sorcerer,11 or who casts spells, consults ghosts and spirits, or seeks oracles from the dead.12 Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, and because of such abominations the LORD, your God, is dispossessing them before you.

In the Catholic faith the Church canonizes saints. Therefore, we believe when that happens that the Holy Spirit has guided the Church into knowing that that person who is canonized is in heaven. So we recognize them as being truly alive and able to pray for us. To us they are truly alive and we simply can’t see them because they have exited the physical and are in the spiritual (in heaven) We all long for the resurrection of the body on the last day so our physical can be rejoined perfectly to our spiritual (body perfectly integrated with the soul).

If you are presented with this Francis I would recommend mentioning Deuteronomy as well. And if you aren’t already doing so, the Rosary daily asking God to flood your girlfriend with grace. Also say a Novena for her so she can “see” this easier.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
You don’t say what faith tradition, if any, your girlfriend is from, but if she is from a Reformed Protestant background, you may have more difficulties than you think. All the answers here are about the relationship Mary has to Jesus; no one would dispute you on that. The issue for most Reformed Protestants is that YOU DO NOT PRAY TO THE DEAD. The dead are dead and there is to be NO communication with them, either speaking with them, or asking for prayers.

So of course when that is the bottom line, any prayers to the saints or to Mary are quite out of the question.
Click to expand...
Because?
The dead no longer exist?
Or because the dead are now in an inferior state?
Or because each of us is separated from those we cannot see?
Or because we are all self sufficient and need help from no one?

Are the dead hopelessly dead, or are they alive in Christ?
 
ComplineSanFran said:
You don’t say what faith tradition, if any, your girlfriend is from, but if she is from a Reformed Protestant background, you may have more difficulties than you think. All the answers here are about the relationship Mary has to Jesus; no one would dispute you on that. The issue for most Reformed Protestants is that YOU DO NOT PRAY TO THE DEAD. The dead are dead and there is to be NO communication with them, either speaking with them, or asking for prayers…

So of course when that is the bottom line, any prayers to the saints or to Mary are quite out of the question.
Click to expand...
I would just like to say that my Anglican friend has no problem with the concept of the intercesstion of the Saints, or calling Mary the Mother of God because she is, or really any traditional objection to Catholicism. And by the way I know some people will argue that Anglicanism is via media while she identifies as Protestant. Though her beliefs are very Catholic so obviously he can’t pigeonhole someone in this group. By the way intersession of the Saint scan’t be necromancy because necromancy is communicating with the dead but people in heaven would not be dead now would they?
By the way the Book of Revelation says that Saints in heaven can hear the prayers of the saints on earth, maybe you should actually read your Bible sometime
 
clem456 said:
Because?
The dead no longer exist?
Or because the dead are now in an inferior state?
Or because each of us is separated from those we cannot see?
Or because we are all self sufficient and need help from no one?

Are the dead hopelessly dead, or are they alive in Christ?
Click to expand...
My guess is that reformed Christians generally believe that there is a distinct separation between the living and the dead, and lean on the prohibitions in Deut, et al, against communication with the dead for support in this belief.

Personally, when I ask friends, colleagues, about family members, etc, who are dead, the response is pretty much ‘Don’t go there.’ Communication/prayer to saints? ‘REALLY don’t go there.’

I would also add that this is (still) push back from the Reformation. Remember that praying for the dead and the cult of the saints was a key issue in the disputes. I think we’re still seeing that today.
 
adamhovey1988 said:
I would just like to say that my Anglican friend has no problem with the concept of the intercesstion of the Saints, or calling Mary the Mother of God because she is, or really any traditional objection to Catholicism. And by the way I know some people will argue that Anglicanism is via media while she identifies as Protestant. Though her beliefs are very Catholic so obviously he can’t pigeonhole someone in this group. By the way intersession of the Saint scan’t be necromancy because necromancy is communicating with the dead but people in heaven would not be dead now would they?
By the way the Book of Revelation says that Saints in heaven can hear the prayers of the saints on earth, maybe you should actually read your Bible sometime
Click to expand...
Anglicans pray to the saints all the time. We have no problem celebrating feast days and naming our churches after them. I believe we were talking about Reformed Christians; well, at least I used that branch of Christianity as an example for this discussion.

You say people in heaven can’t be dead? Ummm. Just a guess but they probably all went through death to get there. And they certainly are considered dead to those of us who are living. I’m not sure what you mean here.

And please, there is no reason to be snarky with such comments as ‘maybe you should actually read your Bible sometime.’

Civility counts for a lot.
 
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