How to explain Marian Intercession to a non-Catholic

[Louman127]

When our earthy life is ended in this short life of 70, 80, 90 years. It is a short battle zone we go through.

We are baptized and taken into Christ’s Mystical Body. When one excepts Christ and obeys Him and His laws and when one loves God above all else, we stay in His mystical body as ALIVE. This is the spiritual language we use.

The physical body has a certain amount of weakness and it deteriorates due to original sin and dies because of it. Yes we will die and be burried. But our soul however, is still in Christ. Death will then have no hold over us. We will be truly alive. (May need to make a trip to purgatory). The mind unlocked and free from depression and stress. Yes I tell you the Saints are truly alive more than we are. Because they are fully free and in complete accord with God.

So pray with a Saint interceding for you and ask Jesus also yourself. Then there will be two witnesses asking for the same thing. One who is purified and in complete union with Him and you the sinner in need of help. But if you’re in grace then you are also looked at as a righteous one on their way to Sainthood. And God likes to see His children trying to be a Saint.

 

[mattp0625]

Many non Catholic Christians believe that we do not go directly to heaven or hell right after we die. For them, it does not happen until the last day. Therefore, according to this doctrine, one cannot ask for intercession.

Some will also point to the fact that there is “one mediator”. Intercession of the saints is also erroneously equated to “worship”.

When you point to scriptures about intercession and communion of saints (on earth and in heaven)…often it will not matter.

Some say the development of doctrine such as this was aimed at directly contradicting our church. The history seems to suggest this as well.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

In thinking about this concern that many non-Catholics have about Mary and the Saints (and when I listen to Catholic Answers call in shows, it clearly IS a disconnect for a goodly number of people), there isn’t a right way or wrong way to look at this spiritual practice. It is just two very different understandings of the communion of saints. Catholics can try to explain things until they are blue in the face, but a good Calvinist isn’t going to be persuaded to go there. Now if a person is wanting to convert and take on all the culture and practices of the Catholic tradition, that is a different story. My experience, however, is that many converts still struggle with it, especially if they come from a reformed background.

For the OP, I would just say, tell your girlfriend, ‘This is what we do and why we do it.’ Let her see rather than try to take it on. It may be easier that way.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I came from a protestant background and had a very limited understanding of Our Lady, her role or intercession. Previously I didn’t think about her much. All I understood was Jesus obeyed the commandment to “honor thy parents” and if Jesus honored them so could I… so I was open to them but I never prayed to them and certainly had no understanding of Saintly intercessions.

During the period between deciding to convert and waiting for the next RCIA classes to start a friend sent me the clip below. All my questions about her were answered, I had to rewatch several times because there are boom moments I never realised were there…the New Eve… the Ark of the New Covenant…

It is still my favorite clip because it explains a lot in simple language in a short time.

youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA

 

[GLam8833]

The Rosary is such a powerful prayer, it
pleads w/ Mary, our spiritual Mother to
break into our daily lives and transform
them into service for Christ, that is why
I pray the Rosary daily!!

 

[Even_So]

James mother was another woman called Mary, not the same Mary that gave birth to Jesus. (refer below)

“There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him; among who were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” (Matt. 27:56; see also Mark 15:40)

James and Jesus were not biological brothers but were brothers in every other sense of the word.

“The earliest explanation of the “brothers” of the Lord is found in a document known as the Protoevangelium of James, which was written around A.D. 150. It speaks of Mary as a consecrated virgin since her youth, and of St. Joseph as an elderly widower with children who was chosen to be Mary’s spouse for the purposes of guarding and protecting her while respecting her vow of virginity. Though this document is not on the level of Sacred Scripture, it was written very early, and it may contain accurate historical traditions.” catholic.com

Does anyone here refute this, or do all agree on this? Hmmm. New thread maybe? Merry Christmas !

 

[The_Apostolate]

Please tell your girlfriend ,that Mary was choose by God ,and and an appeared ,she accept the Angel,s word,s and said I,am the hand maiden, let it bee n too his will, if Mary did n,t said yes, Jesus won,t be born and we would have no need off Catholic church,s, priest or the season off Christmas ,which Mary gave birth too Jesus and Joseph was her spouse . I hope you let her read this and I hope it will touch her Heart.Amen

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Does anyone here refute this, or do all agree on this? Hmmm. New thread maybe? Merry Christmas !

Not much to dispute, the verse doesn’t say Mary the mother of James, Jesus and Joseph. This is a different Mary who is the mother of James and Joseph only.

St. Paul writes, “[Jesus] appeared to more than five hundred brothers at the same time” (1 Cor. 15:6), do we infer from this verse that Mary gave birth to more than 500 children?

These “brothers” are never once called the children of Mary, although Jesus himself is (John 2:1; Acts 1:14).

James and Joseph (also called Joses), who are called Jesus’ “brothers” (Mark 6:3) are indeed the children of Mary—Just not Mary, the mother of Jesus.

After St. Matthew’s account of the crucifixion and death of Jesus, he writes:

“There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him; among who were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” (Matt. 27:56; see also Mark 15:40).

Interpreting scripture in a historical, social and cultural context the term brother (Gk. adelphos) has a broader meaning than uterine brothers. It can mean a biological brother, but it can also refer to an extended relative, a adopted or merged family or even a spiritual brother.

Take Genesis 13:8 for example. Here the word brother is being used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot, who were not biological brothers but uncle and nephew:

“So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers” (Gen 13:8, NIV; see also 14:12).

Merry ChristMass to you and yours also. :harp:

 

[The_Apostolate]

Not much to dispute, the verse doesn’t say Mary the mother of James, Jesus and Joseph. This is a different Mary who is the mother of James and Joseph only.

St. Paul writes, “[Jesus] appeared to more than five hundred brothers at the same time” (1 Cor. 15:6), do we infer from this verse that Mary gave birth to more than 500 children?

These “brothers” are never once called the children of Mary, although Jesus himself is (John 2:1; Acts 1:14).

James and Joseph (also called Joses), who are called Jesus’ “brothers” (Mark 6:3) are indeed the children of Mary—Just not Mary, the mother of Jesus.

After St. Matthew’s account of the crucifixion and death of Jesus, he writes:

“There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him; among who were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” (Matt. 27:56; see also Mark 15:40).

Interpreting scripture in a historical, social and cultural context the term brother (Gk. adelphos) has a broader meaning than uterine brothers. It can mean a biological brother, but it can also refer to an extended relative, a adopted or merged family or even a spiritual brother.

Take Genesis 13:8 for example. Here the word brother is being used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot, who were not biological brothers but uncle and nephew:

“So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers” (Gen 13:8, NIV; see also 14:12).

Merry ChristMass to you and yours also. :harp:

You can never change the fact, for Mary was choose, too bring Jesus into the world,and now SHE is Queen of Heaven and Earth,people need too read about Mary roll in our lives.Amen

 

[Louman127]

Does anyone here refute this, or do all agree on this? Hmmm. New thread maybe? Merry Christmas !

The St. Joseph being a widower part isn’t doctrinal but I understand many believe this because there is no definitive teaching on this. However, many also believe this is not accurate at all. I personally think it is not accurate but again can’t really say no either. I will not say DEFINITIVELY either or, unless God and His Church have bestowed upon us and trusted us with that information and it comes into doctrine. If we are made known of that information in the future it will conform perfectly to the faith and will not contradict it in any way and would only shed light on how regal and noble Saint Joseph was.

But everything else is accurate and doctrinal. Mary was a virgin before, during, and after Jesus. And it is also correct that they were not his biological brothers. Mary had only Jesus. Jesus’ brothers were His brothers in Christ (disciples), that would include His cousins who loved Him also. Anyone who truly loves Christ follows Christ therefore making a person His “brother” or “sister” in Christ.

 

[mattp0625]

The St. Joseph being a widower part isn’t doctrinal but I understand many believe this because there is no definitive teaching on this. However, many also believe this is not accurate at all. I personally think it is not accurate but again can’t really say no either. I will not say DEFINITIVELY either or, unless God and His Church have bestowed upon us and trusted us with that information and it comes into doctrine. If we are made known of that information in the future it will conform perfectly to the faith and will not contradict it in any way and would only shed light on how regal and noble Saint Joseph was.

But everything else is accurate and doctrinal. Mary was a virgin before, during, and after Jesus. And it is also correct that they were not his biological brothers. Mary had only Jesus. Jesus’ brothers were His brothers in Christ (disciples), that would include His cousins who loved Him also. Anyone who truly loves Christ follows Christ therefore making a person His “brother” or “sister” in Christ.

All who do the will of my Father are my brethren.
That’s a lot of brothers…
It’s an attempt to contradict Catholic doctrine that doesn’t work.

 

[Louman127]

All who do the will of my Father are my brethren.
That’s a lot of brothers…
It’s an attempt to contradict Catholic doctrine that doesn’t work.

Are you saying my post is attempting to contradict Catholic doctrine? If so, which portion of my post is flawed?

 

[mattp0625]

Are you saying my post is attempting to contradict Catholic doctrine? If so, which portion of my post is flawed?

Nope! I was agreeing and adding on.
For example, all who do the will of His Father cannot all be biological brothers.
This clarifies the attempt at contradicting Mary’s virginity (or Catholic doctrine in general)

 

[Louman127]

Nope! I was agreeing and adding on.
For example, all who do the will of His Father cannot all be biological brothers.
This clarifies the attempt at contradicting Mary’s virginity (or Catholic doctrine in general)

Ahhh ok I see.

 

[OraLabora]

Here’s the answer in simple terms: mooooommmm I scratched dad’s new car with my bike!!!

Who hasn’t been in a similar situation and asked his or her mom to intervene with dad to soften the punishment?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Here’s the answer in simple terms: mooooommmm I scratched dad’s new car with my bike!!!

Who hasn’t been in a similar situation and asked his or her mom to intervene with dad to soften the punishment?

That may work for someone who is Catholic, but do you understand it would do absolutely nothing for a reformed Protestant?

 

[OraLabora]

That may work for someone who is Catholic, but do you understand it would do absolutely nothing for a reformed Protestant?

I was being facetious. Sometimes I find we try to overthink and over-analyze our faith, and we would do better to approach it with the heart of a child. I’ve actually given up trying to have doctrinal arguments with non-Catholics, and prefer to explain my faith in simpler terms when asked, and focusing on common ground when not asked.

Given that I have been married to a reformed Protestant for 27 years, I have found that to be a pretty good formula for a happy marriage. Actually, I have been a revert for 18 years. My wife though she joined a reformed church (evangelical Anglican) for about 20 years, was baptized 17 years ago. For our first 10 years or so of marriage mostly I was a non-believer and she was searching.

There was an an awful lot of the zeal of the newly converted on both sides back then that led to a lot of friction and hurt feelings. Since then we’ve both learned to approach faith with more simplicity, more listening, and more searching for common ground rather than points of division. I can honestly say that her simpler approach to faith has helped me become a better Catholic.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I was being facetious. Sometimes I find we try to overthink and over-analyze our faith, and we would do better to approach it with the heart of a child. I’ve actually given up trying to have doctrinal arguments with non-Catholics, and prefer to explain my faith in simpler terms when asked, and focusing on common ground when not asked.

Given that I have been married to a reformed Protestant for 27 years, I have found that to be a pretty good formula for a happy marriage. Actually, I have been a revert for 18 years. My wife though she joined a reformed church (evangelical Anglican) for about 20 years, was baptized 17 years ago. For our first 10 years or so of marriage mostly I was a non-believer and she was searching.

There was an an awful lot of the zeal of the newly converted on both sides back then that led to a lot of friction and hurt feelings. Since then we’ve both learned to approach faith with more simplicity, more listening, and more searching for common ground rather than points of division. I can honestly say that her simpler approach to faith has helped me become a better Catholic.

A whole lot of wisdom in what you’ve said. Thank you for it.

 

[clem456]

Here’s the answer in simple terms: mooooommmm I scratched dad’s new car with my bike!!!

Who hasn’t been in a similar situation and asked his or her mom to intervene with dad to soften the punishment?

Excellent example using common sense to express doctrine .
Anyone can relate.

Everyone is need of God’s mercy. We all fall short in approaching God. We need others to come close to God, to learn about him, to know how he is, how to speak to him, how to ask him.

Christianity was never meant to be a purely personal endeavor, subject to our own personal experience. Christianity is lived as a community. Mary is a unique member of that community. Mary is closer to her son that anyone else, she knows him as only a mother can know someone. It seems like a really good thing to open that gift, appreciate it, and be grateful for it. Intimacy with Christ means being part of a family.