How to explain not supporting gay marriges?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Matthewmatt
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Matthewmatt

Guest
I was talking to a lot of friends at school and we were argueing about homosexuality and it seems though that a recurring theme is that they dont understand why we Christians should have the power to pass a law saying that gay men and women cant marry. They say we should just leave it alone and let them make their own choices. I’m Catholic and i understand that God created Marriage for a man and a women but how can i stop others from getting married if thats their choice.

I believe we should be againist gay marriage but how can i explain that i am justified in doing so.

God Bless
 
I liked the site but how i do i explain that i a Believe can tell a non believer what to do.

How can i since i know its wrong force someone else who doesnt believe its wrong to not do it.

How can i tell a homosexual that they cant get married if they believe they can.

I know becuase its the Truth Christ has decllared but how do i explain this to nonbelievers.
 
Well in the middle east they stone homosexuals, needless to say thank God we dont have a society like that. I see nothing wrong with giving the gays the right to be viewed as married by the state, as long as that same state continues to protect our right to reach out to them and preach God’s message of love.

Prohibiting gay people from getting married as a matter of law wont stop many couples from jumping over the broom. Gays will still cohabitate and adopt children, our best chance to combat this alternative lifestyle is just to preach the Gospel at all times and if we must, use words.

IMO merely legislating what a person can or cant do is a lazy and ineffective approach to making this world more Christlike.
 
I liked the site but how i do i explain that i a Believe can tell a non believer what to do.

How can i since i know its wrong force someone else who doesnt believe its wrong to not do it.

How can i tell a homosexual that they cant get married if they believe they can.

I know becuase its the Truth Christ has decllared but how do i explain this to nonbelievers.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m detecting two questions built into one:

First, how do you explain that homosexual acts are wrong (and thus that no one should do them)? I’ll not go into that now, because I think the second part is more pertinent to what you asked:

Why should my belief that homosexual acts are wrong cause me to oppose gay marriage even though (obviously) the people who would be prevented from doing as they like by this don’t hold my view?

The answer I like is this: law is based on moral principal, at least fundamentally. Even something like “don’t park next to a curb that’s painted yellow” comes from a desire to protect people and property.

It may not be the case that all moral principles should be made into law (it should obviously not be illegal to hold a grudge for a no reason, but you still shouldn’t do it). It is the case, however, that whatever moral principles do make it to law should be good ones. It would be bad, for example, to make it legally mandatory to steal your neighbors food once a year.

A governmental marriage license is a declaration that the people involved are participating in something basically good. It is not at all permission for those people to engage in sexual acts (the law does not need to give such permission), but it does say that these acts are good within this context. Therefore, handing out a marriage license to a gay couple is a legal recognition that what they are doing is good.

That is a moral statement. It is incorrect. Therefore it should not make it into law. (And giving out a marriage license is a positive action of the law.)

Two points:
  • This is not the same as outlawing homosexual activity, or saying with the force of law that it is bad, it is merely refusing to say that it is good. Hence, they are not being denied permission to do anything, but being denied recognition that a bad thing is good.
  • The fact that the people involved disagree on the moral part has no effect on how we should behave. This is a democracy, I vote based on what I believe to be moral (taking into account what it is just to impose on people who disagree with me), and you likewise. Should a person wish that different moral principles be used as the foundation of the law, it is that persons’ job to convince voters that he is correct, not to complain that their views aren’t being given equal weight - of course they aren’t, that’s because we think they’re wrong.
 
I do not think you should try to “stop” people from getting married.:confused:

Think about this: in the United States today, most of the marriages performed between a MAN and a WOMAN, and valid under state law, are not recognized by the Catholic church.

One or both of the parties may be divorced, or the marriage may be performed outside the church by a civil officer, or one of the parties may belong to a different rite of the church, or the ceremony may have some other technical canonical defect.

If the state wants to add another class of “marriage” (same sex unions) to the list, what’s the problem? The Catholic church cannot be compelled to perform a same sex marriage, and you do not have to recognize it.

Of course, if the church wishes to receive some form of governmental assistance (aid to a Catholic adoption agency, for example), it may need to recognize the validity of whatever the state calls marriage. But that is true if one of the spouses is divorced and remarried. If a child is a student in a parochial school, and one of the parents is divorced and remarried, the church has to deal with that, and recognize the parental rights.

🤷
 
A governmental marriage license is a declaration that the people involved are participating in something basically good. It is not at all permission for those people to engage in sexual acts (the law does not need to give such permission), but it does say that these acts are good within this context. Therefore, handing out a marriage license to a gay couple is a legal recognition that what they are doing is good.
I hear you up until this part of your post. Just because the govt gives you a license to do something dosent necessarily mean that govt thinks its good. For example: one needs a permit to shoot and distribute porn. It would be one thing if govt just permitted people to own porn but the govt will actually aquiesce to the creation of porn, does that mean that the gov thinks porn is good, probably not. After all porn intrudes on the sanctity of the conjugal act and their is no love between the two actors who are merely being used for their bodies.
 
Unfortunately, I’ve run into this issue myself a few times. I have several Christian friends who are gay and they whole-heartedly believe that God says it’s okay for them to love whoever they want and marry whoever they want. I’ve given up arguing and have taken up praying for them instead. Sometimes that’s all we can do! 🙂
 
It just struck me that a person who says “you have a religious-based belief, and should allow others to have their own belief” are in essence saying that you are not allowed to have a say in anything outside your religion. Thing is, the whole world is our religion, whether another person believes it or not. A truth is a truth no matter how many people don’t believe it, and if we really honestly believe that a thing is true then we must support it no matter how distasteful it may be.

If it comes to voting on these issues, these people are saying that you must either vote against your belief, or that you have no right to vote at all. Ony those who support gay marriage have a right to say what they believe.

They are also saying that you cannot tell someone if you think they are in error, but must, for the sake of their “free will” allow them to continue unchecked. How can we have true free will if we don’t understand all the arguments, but are being influenced only by those who are allowed to speak their mind?

Their eternal souls are at stake and we must speak the truth, and cop the backlash because we love them and want the best for them. We see a better “best” than they can see, but we see a worse “bad” than they see in our resistance to allowing the distortion of an institution that God created.
 
The answer to the OP’s question seems pretty simple to me.

Societies pass laws to protect their members from harm. Homosexuality is counter to the Will of God, unnatural, and harmful to homosexuals and heterosexuals alike.

The problem with many people today is that they equate liberty with licentiousness. They don’t realize that when you allow people to do whatever they want, those under the influence of evil will eventually harm those around them.

Yes, I’m religious, but I also use common sense.
 
I was talking to a lot of friends at school and we were argueing about homosexuality and it seems though that a recurring theme is that they dont understand why we Christians should have the power to pass a law saying that gay men and women cant marry. They say we should just leave it alone and let them make their own choices. I’m Catholic and i understand that God created Marriage for a man and a women but how can i stop others from getting married if thats their choice.

I believe we should be againist gay marriage but how can i explain that i am justified in doing so.

God Bless
There is an entire section on our beliefs in homosexuality in the Bible. I can send you the verse later because i do not know it off the top of my head.
 
Yeah i have to agree with you admosta thats what i said when i was talking to them i said that i am againist gay marriage becuase i care about them and love them and everyone. So i know they may not believe the same as i but no matter who believes the Truth the Truth is still *Truth *and no matter who believes a lie it is still a lie. Yes and i liked your point iron donkey i did have a 2 way question but i think your right that by the gov allowing the marriage their sort of “approving” of it. I know birdpreacher said that they also give licenses for porn distribution but this is something that is wrong. They shouldnt give the license for porn or gay marriage or abortion these things all need to be changed not out of force to stop people from sinning but out of Care and Love to stop them from falling off a cliff because you wouldnt just let your friend jump off the cliff you would stop him. Or at least i would.

God Bless

Pray for me and my Friends!!!
 
I hear you up until this part of your post. Just because the govt gives you a license to do something dosent necessarily mean that govt thinks its good. For example: one needs a permit to shoot and distribute porn. It would be one thing if govt just permitted people to own porn but the govt will actually aquiesce to the creation of porn, does that mean that the gov thinks porn is good, probably not. After all porn intrudes on the sanctity of the conjugal act and their is no love between the two actors who are merely being used for their bodies.
I see your point, however I would maintain that there is something fundamentally different between a business license and a marriage license.

The entire purpose of the business license stuff is to regulate businesses and keep them under control. A specific company seeks a license so that it can legally do something, true, but the license exists to make it difficult to do things - the procedures you must go through to get one are obstacles, and by overcoming them a business owner (theoretically) demonstrates that he is competent to do run the business in accords with public safety issues or whatever other restrictions the law requires.

A marriage license is a whole nother thing. Whereas you seek a business license in order to do things, aside from governmental regulation, whic you would be able to do anyway (sell food or whatever), you seek a marriage license so that the government recognizes that you are in a special state that merits benefits specific to that state.

For example, why should a married couple get tax breaks? Not just because it would be helpful to them - it would be helpful to give an alcoholic tax breaks because he spent lots of money on beer. But not having money because you bought too much beer is not recognized as a good reason to gain special tax privileges, whereas raising a family is.

Why is this? It is because the standard model of the family is considered to be a good and worthy enterprise, and so should be helped, while alcoholism is not.

That is, a marriage license bestows privileges that in the absence of a marriage have no reason to exist, while a business licenses just recognizes that a company is competent to do whatever they are doing and allows them to get on with it (and incidentally, makes it easier for the government to collect taxes). The government does not try to judge and regulate the competency of people to marry.

The nature of the marriage license says that a marriage is a good and worthy enterprise because of what it does and why it is requested. You tell the state that you are married, and they fill out some forms and say “great! you are now entitled to x,y,z because you are now married.” There is no reason to do this for homosexual relationships. That the people involved really want to is not enough.

As an aside, I would hazard that governmental recognition of immoral businesses - even taken as a grudging acceptance of the fact that the government should not stop a specific action - has in some sense given the impression to some people that the things are ok. That is, dirty magazines may be seen as less despicable now than in the past partially because they are visibly tolerated by the government. What we are surrounded by begins to seem normal, and it is hard to argue that such a normal seeming thing is terrible. But that’s another issue, if a tangentially related one.
 
I was talking to a lot of friends at school and we were argueing about homosexuality and it seems though that a recurring theme is that they dont understand why we Christians should have the power to pass a law saying that gay men and women cant marry.
Begin by explaining that we have the same rights and power that anyone else has in regards to passing laws. That is, to make our voices heard on the issue. If a majority in a given jurisdiction changes a given law it is based on the will of the people…We happen to be part of the people.
In short this “power to pass a law” that your friend seems to think we have is illusory.
They say we should just leave it alone and let them make their own choices.
I’m Catholic and i understand that God created Marriage for a man and a women but how can i stop others from getting married if that’s their choice.
People within the Church - including at least one Bishop - has said that the Church would not oppose “civil unions” for the purpose of same sex domestic partners obtaining certain benefits, but that these need to be something separate from “Marriage”.
So as far as leaving them alone to make their own decisions, it really comes down to semantics.
I believe we should be againist gay marriage but how can i explain that i am justified in doing so.
God Bless
I hope the above helps a little.

Peace
James
 
If pro-gay marriage people can make a decision to support gay marriage based on their personal beliefs, how can they tell a christian to not do the exact same thing? I never understand the argument that christians shouldn’t use their faith as basis for voting on issues like this. What am I supposed to use? Am I supposed to support gay marriage because popular culture and media say so? Am I supposed to support it because there are tv shows with happy go lucky and funny gay people as the stars? Am I supposed to support it because everyone else does? What sense does that make? If people can make an uninformed decision to support gay marriage based on all that nonsense, who is anyone to say I can’t make that decision based on my faith? That is a ridiculous argument and totally specious.

I wouldn’t even entertain an argument like that. Why do you have to justify yourself and how you base your decisions, but they don’t?
 
If pro-gay marriage people can make a decision to support gay marriage based on their personal beliefs, how can they tell a christian to not do the exact same thing? I never understand the argument that christians shouldn’t use their faith as basis for voting on issues like this. What am I supposed to use? Am I supposed to support gay marriage because popular culture and media say so? Am I supposed to support it because there are tv shows with happy go lucky and funny gay people as the stars? Am I supposed to support it because everyone else does? What sense does that make? If people can make an uninformed decision to support gay marriage based on all that nonsense, who is anyone to say I can’t make that decision based on my faith? That is a ridiculous argument and totally specious.

I wouldn’t even entertain an argument like that. Why do you have to justify yourself and how you base your decisions, but they don’t?
This is an excellent point and a good way to turn the discussion and force those who support gay ‘marriage’ explain why they do.
I have asked a couple of friends for an explanation of their support and what I got was that it feels like the right thing to do, plus they understood marriage only as a public proclamation of love and commitment. They didn’t offer anything deeper than how they felt about it and how popular culture seeks to define marriage. And they thought this was perfectly acceptable as a basis for their belief, while my belief was seen as irrational and not in step with the times. It makes absolutely no sense and it is therefore crucial to expose such ‘arguments’ for what they are. This may not convince people to change the way they see this issue but it could be a good place to start to get them thinking.
 
I was talking to a lot of friends at school and we were argueing about homosexuality and it seems though that a recurring theme is that they dont understand why we Christians should have the power to pass a law saying that gay men and women cant marry. They say we should just leave it alone and let them make their own choices. I’m Catholic and i understand that God created Marriage for a man and a women but how can i stop others from getting married if thats their choice.
I believe we should be againist gay marriage but how can i explain that i am justified in doing so.

God Bless
You already have the answer. It is not their choice. No matter how much they may want it to be. Marriage is defined by God. So they only get to redefine it if they are greater than God, which they aren’t.

Two men or two women can’t get married. Not shouldn’t. Can’t. It’s impossible. It doesn’t matter whether it is legal or socially accepted, it’s impossible.

Now people can have difficulty understanding that, and there are various ways to try explaining it and increasing their understanding, but it is vital that we always acknowledge the true nature of marriage in these discussion. “Gay marriage” doesn’t and can’t exist. (unless of course you are talking about a happy marriage). Using the appropriate terms: sodomy or “so-called” gay marriage is important.

pax
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top