How to explain sin?

[seagal]

I have a family member in her 80’s, born and raised Catholic and still practicing, who does not believe in sin. She says sin is simply “missing the mark”, which of course it is. But anything outside murder or something atrocious she says is not sinning. This includes original sin, she doesn’t understand how a baby could be born with sin. This comes from the “feel good about yourself” types of workshops she takes from other good, practicing Catholics who are all reading questionable material. She thinks that to acknowledge yourself as a sinner is equivalent to calling yourself names and putting yourself down. My question is, how would you approach this?

Edit:
I have tried to point out that the Bible is full of sin, but she says that there are other ways to interpret the Bible. I’ve also asked her if we are not sinners why did Jesus come to us, and she says it was to teach us how to live. So Jesus I guess is the Love Guru I didn’t get a chance to ask her why he had to die but I’m guessing she’d have a handy brush off for that as well.

 

[JamalChristophr]

*** If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us***

1 John 1:8

Pray the rosary for her.

 

[Beryllos]

You are talking about what she professes in words, but it might be more important how she expresses her faith in action. Does she follow the commandments? Does she love God? Does she love (in the sense of willing the good of) those around her? If she does, then she and you are not that far apart and I wouldn’t worry too much.

 

[JRKH]

Just a real quick thought…
Start with her idea of “missing the mark” and build from there…
Ask her what is the mark that we are suppose hit?

Also suggest that calling one’s self a sinner need not be negative. Rather it is a recognition of the fact that we all miss the mark at times…sometimes a little, sometimes a lot.

These might be ways to open a real dialogue where you can both investigate.

Since she is 80, she may well have been raised in a much more strict “sinner” style of upbringing. Her current views can be a reaction to that.

Try to bring her to the recognition that one can go too far in either direction…despair or presumption.

OK that is more than one thought…

Hope it helps.

Peace
James

 

[Joe_5859]

Just a real quick thought…
Start with her idea of “missing the mark” and build from there…
Ask her what is the mark that we are suppose hit?

Also suggest that calling one’s self a sinner need not be negative. Rather it is a recognition of the fact that we all miss the mark at times…sometimes a little, sometimes a lot.

These might be ways to open a real dialogue where you can both investigate.

Since she is 80, she may well have been raised in a much more strict “sinner” style of upbringing. Her current views can be a reaction to that.

Try to bring her to the recognition that one can go too far in either direction…despair or presumption.

OK that is more than one thought…

Hope it helps.

Peace
James

I was going to say almost the same thing. Start with “missing the mark” because it really is a good definition of sin (I recall reading a book on sin for a theology course that went into great detail on that image…can’t remember the book, though). Sometimes we miss the bulls-eye by just a little bit. Sometimes we miss the target altogether. And there’s a lot of space between those two extremes.

For me, sin is just the natural corollary of the fact that I am not perfect. Unless I am willing to state that I am perfect (and I’m definitely not), I am not prepared to say that I am without sin. Now maybe I might say I am not in a state of serious sin. Well, that’s a good thing. We all strive to be in that state of grace for worthy reception of the Eucharist. But again, there is a lot of middle ground between the two extremes. It is not a choice between either I am a murderous scoundrel in a state of mortal sin or I am immaculately sinless.

As the Catechism states, Original Sin is a state not an act. It is a sin that is contracted, not committed. So, yes, a little baby didn’t commit any heinous sin. But – as part of the one interconnected human family – that baby contracted Original Sin. And if we are not all implicated in Adam’s sin, then neither can we all be redeemed by Christ’s Paschal Mystery. It is that unity of the human family that makes it possible.

I’d definitely be careful about how you go about it, though. As James said, it could be a reaction to an overly strict upbringing that laid the guilt on very strong. If you push too much about sin, it will just come across as that very same overly harsh attitude that she could be running from in the first place. If you must talk to her about sin, always talk about it in connection with the salvation won for us by Christ. It is not a matter of persuading her that she must accept this very bad news about sin otherwise, well, things will be very bad for her. Rather, it is about showing how very good the Good News is because it makes escaping that bad news possible.

 

[JRKH]

Just a real quick thought…
Start with her idea of “missing the mark” and build from there…
Ask her what is the mark that we are suppose hit?

Also suggest that calling one’s self a sinner need not be negative. Rather it is a recognition of the fact that we all miss the mark at times…sometimes a little, sometimes a lot.

These might be ways to open a real dialogue where you can both investigate.

Since she is 80, she may well have been raised in a much more strict “sinner” style of upbringing. Her current views can be a reaction to that.

Try to bring her to the recognition that one can go too far in either direction…despair or presumption.

OK that is more than one thought…

Hope it helps.

Peace
James

I’m back - Got a bit more time so I thought I’d elaborate a bit on missing the mark.

I absolutely like this view much better than the (seemingly) more common understanding of sin as “breaking rules”.

But taking that “missing the mark” idea and running with it, one must ask how far off the mark can one be (consistently) and still enter heaven?
I like Sports analogies for these…
Heaven is the Majors…How good does a pitcher have to be to play in the majors?
Heaven is the Olympics…How far off the mark can an archer be and still make the Olympic team?

Mt 5:43-48 which speaks of love, ends with the statement, “You must be perfect (in Agape) as your heavenly Father is perfect”.
Obviously Jesus sets the bar for hitting the mark very high…So it is obvious that we will miss the mark from time to time.

That said, I like what Beryllos said above about looking at how she lives. Does she live a loving Christian life?

One other thing - on the matter of “Scripture can be interpreted differently”. This is true, but we are not free to just interpret it in isolation. The Church serves as the arbiter of whether an interpretation is correct or not. Therefore we always need to interpret Scripture within the teachings of the Church.

Hope some of this is helpful.

Peace
James

 

[seagal]

*** If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us***

1 John 1:8

Pray the rosary for her.

Yes, I thought of that verse after our conversation. There hasn’t been another opportunity to talk yet, but I’m hoping. And yes, I’m praying for her

 

[seagal]

You are talking about what she professes in words, but it might be more important how she expresses her faith in action. Does she follow the commandments? Does she love God? Does she love (in the sense of willing the good of) those around her? If she does, then she and you are not that far apart and I wouldn’t worry too much.

Yes, she’s a very loving and prayerful person. She never misses mass if her health permits. Maybe you’re right and I’m making a mountain out of molehill. I worries me because she sees no need to go to confession. Granted she probably hasn’t committed any mortal sins, but still…

 

[seagal]

Thanks to you all, you’ve given me a lot of food for thought and I appreciate it very much. I do hope to have another, non-confrontational chat with her about it. You’re right Joe, she did come from a stricter upbringing and I think guilt was a large part of it. This line of thinking on her part seems to be the pendulum swinging back a little too far. As long as it doesn’t endanger her immortal soul, which is my biggest worry. I think I’ll talk with my pastor about it as well.

Thanks again

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Sounds like your family member is spiritually mature.

“Miss the mark,” has been a traditional definition for sin. The analogy of an archer shooting his arrow at a target, but missing it has been used by Jewish and Catholic teachers.

Original sin is our fallen state which we’re born into. It’s not the act of the will which sin requires, but the consequence which original sin committed by the first human beings brought the human race into. We are in a fallen state until we are redeemed through Jesus Christ. This is the mercy of God.

Too many Catholics are so focused on sin, they have completely missed the mercy of God.

Even the idea of God punishing the sinner for eternity, was given a different perspective by St John Paul II when he said that God doesn’t send anyone to hell, but rather, they go their on their own. They do this by rejecting God and separating themselves from His love.

So, there is another way to look at sin and the consequences of sin, where the harm is done to ourselves, and not by God.

Jim