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Captain_America
Guest
. . . simply get the mainline Protestants to start going to church on a regular basis!
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Ne_OrangeKnight
Guest
C
Captain_America
Guest
Not quite fixed. Catholic views are disregarded as extreme; not so the views of mainline Protestants.
R
Redratfish
Guest
They are considered extreme because casual Catholis do not go to mass to learn about why the Church teaches as they do. It comes down to Catholics not going to mass.
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Mark01
Guest
Hmmn, interesting thread. What problems are we facing in America today that could be fixed by religion?
The key Founding Fathers of America or those who would be considered to have played pivotal roles in it’s founding were all Christians. Four signers of the Declaration of Independence where either full time ministers or had been full time ministers. Many more were the son’s of clergymen and all would be what we consider to be professionals i.e doctors, lawyers, merchants and educators. Most were active church goers and contributed to there churches with contributions as well as served as lay-leaders. They would for the most part be considered religious men.
They are admired both by our religious society and our secular society for their views put forth in the Declaration of Independence as well as our Constitution. They were advocates of religious freedom and the separation of church and state.
They were also 98.1% Protestant with the most being Episcopalian/Anglican. Their views and works largely held a reserved position of religious authority and several had an open hostility toward the Catholic Church.
Many of the original colonies banned Catholics from residence or at least had laws that restricted Catholics from serving in any form of policy making or positions of authority.
It is this Protestant disregard of religious authority that has slowly but ever so surely caused the secularization of America we have today. Though inadvertently as it has been the idea of religious freedom has been turned into and idea of moral freedom. Separation of church and state has been turned into government without God.
Without an authoritative religious guide and a Christian unity in faith and morals we are slowly becoming a nation of pagans. Freedom to choose only goes to the extent to where it does not harm society, physically and morally. After that it becomes a destructive force that damages the society entrusted to it’s protection.
The Founding Fathers never intended this to be a Nation without a Christian God, but sadly the simple fact of this is being erased by revisionist history and secular thinking.
Secular thinking is and has been creeping into the American Catholic Church for decades, we see in many parishes today the lose of reverence and piety in favor of a less aesthetic church, one in which the tabernacle has been removed from the sanctuary and placed in a side chapel, crucifixes have been modernized, statues have been removed and the baptismal font is used in lieu of holy water fonts located at the entrance to church.
We are fast becoming a church much like our Protestant brothers and American Catholics are starting to think and worship like Protestants, without any regard of the Church’s Authority or teaching. We think Ecumenism means we should change our beliefs so that we can get along and ask the question" Is there really that much difference?"
Frankly many American Catholics want to pick and choose, because they are influenced by Protestant beliefs and here someone say " all you need to do is ask Jesus into your life and have a personnal relationship with him" and they let this carry over into believing “hey I don’t need to go to confession and just mosey on up and receive communion regardles of what state thier soul is in.”
Many blame the clergy for this, I blame the individual for not studing/understanding thier professed faith. We as Catholics have a responcibility to know what the Church teaches and not always hide behind “well I didn’t know.”
Clergy also have a responcibility to reprimand their flock, and to gently correct those who are in error and if they refuse that correction they should be excomunicated until they repent. Does this sound harsh? It may from a Protestant view but to me it shows concern and love for my immortal soul and everytime I have fallen short in my walk I have always found the Catholic Church there to guide me back into the fold and to provide the healing I so desperately needed. I have never found that anywhere else, because it does not exist anywhere else.
Can religion fix America? I don’t think it is up to religion to fix America, but I do think it is up to America to keep God.
The key Founding Fathers of America or those who would be considered to have played pivotal roles in it’s founding were all Christians. Four signers of the Declaration of Independence where either full time ministers or had been full time ministers. Many more were the son’s of clergymen and all would be what we consider to be professionals i.e doctors, lawyers, merchants and educators. Most were active church goers and contributed to there churches with contributions as well as served as lay-leaders. They would for the most part be considered religious men.
They are admired both by our religious society and our secular society for their views put forth in the Declaration of Independence as well as our Constitution. They were advocates of religious freedom and the separation of church and state.
They were also 98.1% Protestant with the most being Episcopalian/Anglican. Their views and works largely held a reserved position of religious authority and several had an open hostility toward the Catholic Church.
Many of the original colonies banned Catholics from residence or at least had laws that restricted Catholics from serving in any form of policy making or positions of authority.
It is this Protestant disregard of religious authority that has slowly but ever so surely caused the secularization of America we have today. Though inadvertently as it has been the idea of religious freedom has been turned into and idea of moral freedom. Separation of church and state has been turned into government without God.
Without an authoritative religious guide and a Christian unity in faith and morals we are slowly becoming a nation of pagans. Freedom to choose only goes to the extent to where it does not harm society, physically and morally. After that it becomes a destructive force that damages the society entrusted to it’s protection.
The Founding Fathers never intended this to be a Nation without a Christian God, but sadly the simple fact of this is being erased by revisionist history and secular thinking.
Secular thinking is and has been creeping into the American Catholic Church for decades, we see in many parishes today the lose of reverence and piety in favor of a less aesthetic church, one in which the tabernacle has been removed from the sanctuary and placed in a side chapel, crucifixes have been modernized, statues have been removed and the baptismal font is used in lieu of holy water fonts located at the entrance to church.
We are fast becoming a church much like our Protestant brothers and American Catholics are starting to think and worship like Protestants, without any regard of the Church’s Authority or teaching. We think Ecumenism means we should change our beliefs so that we can get along and ask the question" Is there really that much difference?"
Frankly many American Catholics want to pick and choose, because they are influenced by Protestant beliefs and here someone say " all you need to do is ask Jesus into your life and have a personnal relationship with him" and they let this carry over into believing “hey I don’t need to go to confession and just mosey on up and receive communion regardles of what state thier soul is in.”
Many blame the clergy for this, I blame the individual for not studing/understanding thier professed faith. We as Catholics have a responcibility to know what the Church teaches and not always hide behind “well I didn’t know.”
Clergy also have a responcibility to reprimand their flock, and to gently correct those who are in error and if they refuse that correction they should be excomunicated until they repent. Does this sound harsh? It may from a Protestant view but to me it shows concern and love for my immortal soul and everytime I have fallen short in my walk I have always found the Catholic Church there to guide me back into the fold and to provide the healing I so desperately needed. I have never found that anywhere else, because it does not exist anywhere else.
Can religion fix America? I don’t think it is up to religion to fix America, but I do think it is up to America to keep God.
T
Todd520
Guest
There is just one answer, and that is proper education/catechism of members
Regardless of denomination, if Christians don’t know and live their faith, their belief in God withers as does their obedience to his laws.
I’m thinking of a book called “The Tipping Point” If more people were Christlike in their lives, many wonderous things could unfold.
Regardless of denomination, if Christians don’t know and live their faith, their belief in God withers as does their obedience to his laws.
I’m thinking of a book called “The Tipping Point” If more people were Christlike in their lives, many wonderous things could unfold.
J
JHow
Guest
I disagree somewhat on the second part of this. They did not advocate an official state church (establishment of religion) as federal policy - and some of them did not advocate any state church (there were established state churches early on), but the modern understanding of “separation of church and state” was not a founding principle.
I don’t think we can tag this as a Catholic-Protestant thing, either. The protestant hinterlands are still very religious and god-fearing, as you probably have noticed if you have driven west from Richmond down 64 into the Shenandoah valley. Northern Virginia and Richmond are part of the northern-urban-modern moloch, but by the time you get to Fluvanna, or Rockingham, or Augusta you have started to reach Flannery O’Connor’s “Christ-Haunted South”. You can tell you are there by the “Jesus Saves” billboards, the people who will post the 10-Commandents in their yards, and graffiti like I once saw in Mennonite country: “Sin is Torment”.
I think what we have going on has more to do with social class than anything else.
A
algebra
Guest
LETS ALL CONVERT TO ISLAM!!!
just trolling
just trolling
I suspect it has less to do with certain views being “Catholic”, and more to do with those views being contrary to progressive ideology. For example, abortion. The Catholic view is no more extreme than the Missouri Synod Lutheran view.
But to your point regarding church attendance, point well taken. I would say the first thing Americans need to recognize is what the founders knew- that all of our rights anticede government. We often here politicans claim they have established a new right - a right to healthcare, an airline customers “bill of rights”. These are false claims that stand the American model of governance on its head - rights come from God to people, people choose to place certain powers in the hands of government. Government has no rights, and cannot grant rights, but can only protect (or destroy) them.
Knowing where our rights come from ought to make us thankful to God, the author of our rights, to honor and worship Him, and follow His commands.
Jon
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nhylan
Guest
Firstly, to blame Protestantism in general for any percieved problems you have with America is rediculous. Secondly, mainline Protestants don’t have a problem with authority, our founders had a problem with corrupt authority, we still have leadership and authority structures. Just because you don’t like them or agree with them doesn’t mean they aren’t there.
As a general comment for this thread I doubt the conservatives who vastly outnumber moderates on this board would really like the outcome of mainline Protestants showing up in droves to their churches. For the most part mainline Protestantism is a great deal more liberal than people like to see. Sure, you have your conservative Lutheran synods and ACNA(which is still liberal by many of your own standards) but for every conservative off shoot there is the liberal majority they fled from.
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kimon
Guest
Why is everyone so keen on making religion part of government? It’s a BAD idea
Let’s assume religion and the state are one. Which religion?
Christianity? Which version of Christianity? What does that mean for the others?
If a “non-denominational” version of Christianity is adopted, what’s the impact on the established denominations and Churches?
If there’s no separation, then the influence goes both ways and not just from religion to government/politics. Put another way, do you want Washington DC (for Americans) to influence your religion?
Finally, has anybody that’s espousing this view ever lived in a country where there the state is not secular but rather intimately linked with religion? I have and it’s not pretty
Let’s assume religion and the state are one. Which religion?
Christianity? Which version of Christianity? What does that mean for the others?
If a “non-denominational” version of Christianity is adopted, what’s the impact on the established denominations and Churches?
If there’s no separation, then the influence goes both ways and not just from religion to government/politics. Put another way, do you want Washington DC (for Americans) to influence your religion?
Finally, has anybody that’s espousing this view ever lived in a country where there the state is not secular but rather intimately linked with religion? I have and it’s not pretty
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Todd520
Guest
kimon is right, we don’t want an offical single religion
We want lots of vibrant and active denominations of many faiths, that have active members who participate in their community
We want lots of vibrant and active denominations of many faiths, that have active members who participate in their community
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cooterhein
Guest
Bunch of questions.
What’s the problem, and how does regular church membership solve it?
There’s more ex-Catholics in America than there are mainline Protestants, and that number’s dropping fast enough that Protestants who used to be Catholic may soon outnumber them, too. So why mainline Protestants?
Is it more about the mainline Protestant churches? What if the mainline Protestants showed up at independent churches instead? What difference would that make?
I guess they wouldn’t be mainline Protestants anymore, though. So it must be the actual churches.
Why those churches? What’s special about them? What can they do that other churches can’t do?
Is it the leaders of those churches? Who are those leaders, anyway, and what do you know about them? What can they do that other church leaders can’t do? What do they say they can do? What are they offering?
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