How to forgive Pope Francis

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This one is troubling to me. Where is God, if man is the center, the King of the Universe?

Before anyone gets upset that I post it, it is from the Vatican website. They published it. If it is taken down because of its content, then perhaps it should be requested that the Vatican remove it.

http://m.vatican.va/content/frances...pa-francesco_20140712_seminario-economia.html

“And when man is not at the centre, another thing is at the centre and man is at the service of this other thing. The aim therefore is to save man, in the sense that he may return to the centre: to the centre of society, to the centre of thought, the centre of reflection. To bring man once again to the centre. …I thank you. I thank you for the help that you give with your work, with your reflection, to restore this unbalanced situation and to recover man and bring him back to the centre of reflection and the centre of life. He is the king of the universe! And this is not theology, it is not philosophy — it is human reality. With this we will go forward. Thank you, thank you truly. Thank you!”
 
I would like to also ask posters to help me create a space here that does not intimidate posters who have genuine resentment toward the Holy Father. We can work through this…

I’m not going to be able to be constantly nursing this thread, so please, posters, be charitable.
 
From noted author Phil Lawler:

“And some of the book’s revelations will be new to any but the most attentive followers of inside Vatican news. The author reminds us, for instance, that Cardinal Bergoglio became prominent when he delivered a speech at the Synod meeting of 2001, after New York’s Cardinal Egan, who was scheduled to give the address, hurried home in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. The Argentine cardinal’s speech was heartily applauded by the prelates who heard it. What they did not know, Colonna tells us, is that Cardinal Bergoglio merely read a text that had been prepared by a Vatican staff member.”

“The Dictator Pope also gives readers samples of a highly critical memo by Father Peter Hans Kolvenbach, then the worldwide leader of the Jesuit order, written in 1991 to explain why, in his opinion, Father Jorge Bergoglio should not be made a bishop. The memo is devastating, pointing to character flaws that are confirmed throughout this book.”

“Indeed the most valuable service provided by the author of The Dictator Pope is the psychological portrait of the Pope: a man who follows in the footsteps of Juan Peron, the demagogic Argentine political leader of young Bergoglio’s formative years. Manipulative, hypersensitive, and often downright vindictive, Pope Francis is certainly not the cheerful populist that his supporters make him out to be. For all the talk about a “reformer pope,” the rhetoric about decentralization, and the promises of reform, the net results of this pontificate to date have been a climate of fear within the Vatican, a tightening of control, and a resurgence of the “old guard” in Rome.”
 
This is where I think we can get ourselves into trouble. In this speech, Pope Francis is not advocating that God is not at the center of the universe. He is giving a speech to people at a conference reflecting on an inclusive economy. He’s saying man needs to be at the center of the economy rather than other things (like making money), otherwise we end up where we are at: with a throwaway culture that doesn’t respect human life. He’s not trying to cut God out of the equation.

This is why context is key, as well as presuming good will and looking at the whole. It is quite clear when looking at the totality of everything Pope Francis says and does that he is not trying to place man in the center in place of God.

So much of the bad press and ill will comes from these misunderstandings.
 
You’re intentions were admirable; however, now the gate is open and it’s gonna be like holding the sea back with a broom.
 
This one is the worst for me. I think. Can anyone explain it?

This time from Vatican Radio. “The voice of the Pope and the Church in dialogue with the world.” (Link below.)

“"He accompanies us and teaches us to pray. And our prayer should be Trinitarian. So often [people ask]: ‘But do you believe?’: 'Yes! Yes! '; ‘What do you believe in?’; ‘In God!’; ‘But what is God for you?’; ‘God, God’. But God does not exist: Do not be shocked! So God does not exist! There is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they are persons, they are not some vague idea in the clouds … This God spray does not exist! The three persons exist!”

http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2014/10/09/pope_at_santa_marta_what_we_dare_not_hope_forp/1108212
 
I admit the wording there is a bit hard to follow (could be a translation issue). It seems to me Francis was making the point about God being a Trinity of persons rather than some vague impersonal force.

Do you really imagine that Pope Francis was declaring to the world that he believes God does not exist?
 
Just this past Monday, I had breakfast with a friend of mine who is a staunch conservative Catholic, who does not like Pope Francis.

As he met me in the parking lot, he showed me a photo of then Bishop Bergoglio, aka Pope Francis, as a Grand Master Free Mason from some radical traditionalists sight claiming that Poe Francis is a Free Mason.

He then had a link to the fraudulent letter of 64 Catholic Bishops and Priests, declaring Pope Francis in teaching heresy. It turned out, many of the names on the letter, were not signed by the Bishops and priests, but added by the originators. My friend defended them for adding those names, as following God’s will. Serving the cause justifies lying and God is pleased with them.

Jim
 
Edward, please, I did line out how to post comments in this thread. Do you have a question? If so, let’s address it. You are quoting what one author said about what someone else wrote about something he read,etc.

Do you hold anything against Pope Francis? If so, are you ready to forgive?
 
If you’re confused with what Pope Francis says, perhaps the real problem is yourself and not the Pope.

I’m not confused over what he has said, when it’s reported from a valid Catholic source.

Jim
 
Joe_5859 said:
He’s saying man needs to be at the center of the economy rather than other things (like making money),
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I’m not sure you can make that claim.

His words:

in the sense that he may return to the centre:
to the centre of society,
to the centre of thought,
the centre of reflection.

to recover man and bring him back
to the centre of reflection
the centre of life.
He is the king of the universe!
Joe_5859 said:
This is why context is key, as well as presuming good will and looking at the whole. It is quite clear when looking at the totality of everything Pope Francis says and does that he is not trying to place man in the center in place of God.
Click to expand...
I sure hope you are right.
Joe_5859 said:
So much of the bad press and ill will comes from these misunderstandings.
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No. So much of the bad press and “ill will” come from direct quotes of what he says taken in context. Not once in that speech did he mention God.

God is the King of the Universe.
 
Divorced who want to receive Eucharist will be an issue in the church and is right now with some people .

I have nothing against the Pope - I like him and trust him to do what is right - but it will be a controversial issue like it or not because of what the catechism says. That would be the only one that I can think of that will cause some problems. But i don’t know what direction that has gone because it does not affect me I leave it to the Church and the guidance of the holy spirit - it also seems to of quieted down over the last few months.
 
Did you give Pope Benedict XVI the same criticism when what he said resulted in the deaths of four nuns ?

Jim
 
Pope Francis doesn’t need anyone’s forgiveness. Except God’s? He didn’t want to be Pope. I’m to understand he pleaded with the conclave when Benedict was elected to NOT make him pope that go-round. But he was still elected, with the full knowledge of what kind of man he was.

The anger thrown at Pope Francis is politically motivated. I can’t imagine anyone who reads what Pope Francis has said or taught without the lens of their politics could find what he says bad or wrong. It just chaps their political views. What Pope Francis needs is to pull out the strap and lay some tough love on his children.
 
It is what HE SAID. If my quoting and discussing what he actually really said is serious sin—there is your sign.
 
Precisely. Translating every tiny comment he makes is absurd. He’s obviously making a theological statement on the Trinity. The wording is a bit off.
 
I think that he is addressing people who think of God as something “out there” and impersonal. That is why I would say it.

Why would you say it, and have good intentions?
 
Waiting for the Holy Father to find the way to calm and unify his children. Things have only gotten more confusing, more heated, more divided, and it is owed to his way. That’s an ongoing problem, not some past event. Go deeper into this.

Your set up post presents a false choice. Those aren’t the only two options. Should be clear, but you try to force a false choice.

Do you forgive a careless person who endangers others around him, while he is still carrying on unmoved by his effects?
 
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