How to forgive Pope Francis

[OneSheep]

“The Father doesn’t hold a grudge.” You misunderstand what happens at Confession, terribly.

What happens at confession is that God’s forgiveness is made real for the penitent person. All sacraments are signs of what has happened, is happening in the moment, or what will happen in the future, as explained by our priest. In this case, as long as the confessing person is sincere, then he will truly realize that God forgives him.

This also has to do with one’s image of God.

So, I ask again. Do you hold anything against Pope Francis? if so, are you ready to forgive?

 

[OneSheep]

It sounds like you love the Holy Father at least as much as I do.

In this thread, I would like people who do hold something against Pope Francis to feel free to express their concerns in a way that is sincere, and we can work towards some kind of understanding that leads to forgiveness.

I hold nothing against those who hold something against him. I am a bit concerned about Catholic media giving voice to those who accuse and demean our Holy Father, ignoring the Gospel and the CCC in regards to charitable protocol.

 

[OneSheep]

This one is the worst for me. I think. Can anyone explain it?

This time from Vatican Radio. “The voice of the Pope and the Church in dialogue with the world.” (Link below.)

“"He accompanies us and teaches us to pray. And our prayer should be Trinitarian. So often [people ask]: ‘But do you believe?’: 'Yes! Yes! '; ‘What do you believe in?’; ‘In God!’; ‘But what is God for you?’; ‘God, God’. But God does not exist: Do not be shocked! So God does not exist! There is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they are persons, they are not some vague idea in the clouds … This God spray does not exist! The three persons exist!”

I think that he is addressing people who think of God as something “out there” and impersonal. That is why I would say it.

Why would you say it, and have good intentions?

 

[SuperLuigi]

Of course @OneSheep did not. This is about an Amercian political agenda.

You can see for yourself all of the accounts who fall so easily for it.

This thread is a picture-perfect example why people are on the verge of leaving the Catholic Church in droves.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Don’t listen to them, Teek. They’re trying to use Pope Francis as a deflector shield to implement a liberal agenda. Their agenda cannot stand on its own merit and fails, so that’s why they have to use these gimmicks.

 

[Hope_Philomena]

Sources please? Out of context quotes are great for pushing an agenda.

I object to that. No political lens. No agenda.

Only faith. Strong Catholic faith.

Three persons—one God.

You’re more inclined to not look charitably upon a statement and be quick to judge when you have a political agenda.

They’re trying to use Pope Francis as a deflector shield to implement a liberal agenda.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[pnewton]

Did you ask this of those that voted for pro abortion, redefining marriage Obama?

I am confused as to how this relates to Pope Francis, or forgiveness. It seems a little like what-about-ism.

If you want, you could start a new topic instead of suggesting some false dichotomy, but the answer on how to forgive is pretty universal.

This is about an Amercian political agenda.

The OP did not mention or even hint at American politics. Yankeesouth brought that up.

 

[SuperLuigi]

The OP did not mention or even hint at American politics. Yankeesouth brought that up.

On a scale of 1-10, how stupid do you think we are?

 

[pnewton]

Since I have no idea who the “we” is the question is meaningless, and rather rhetorical.

 

[Spyridon]

I do love the Holy Father like my biological father.

I’d take a bullet for His Holiness.

I think that’s the correct attitude Catholics should have for the Pope.

And I also hold nothing against Pope-haters. I pity them, if anything. If they can’t see the love and see Christ in very holy Popes like Francis and Benedict, then there hearts must be very hard.

 

[vincentleo]

I do not hold any personal grudge against Pope Francis. But the way I see it, his pontificate is troubling.

For example, the issue of the divorced and civily remarried receiving communion. He has not responded to the dubia but rather has continued to uphold an ambiguous position. This creates confusion and conflict among the faithful…but part of the job of the pope is to be the source of unity in the Church, and this is done through doctrinal clarity. It is a question of tremendous importance since it pertains to mortal sin, and yet he has not clarified his teaching. This is a serious problem.

 

[OneSheep]

I do love the Holy Father like my biological father.

I’d take a bullet for His Holiness.

I think that’s the correct attitude Catholics should have for the Pope.

Good Morning,

Well, there is a range of attitudes, but when I say that there is a “correct” way to love someone, it kinda takes the spontaneity out of it, right? I agree that we Catholics have a discipline to love, but hopefully that discipline develops into a charity and compassion that simply flows from within, without having a “correctness” discipline.

Doesn’t the mature person simply love everyone, except those he holds something against? This is my observation…

Blessings

 

[OneSheep]

Don’t listen to them, Teek. They’re trying to use Pope Francis as a deflector shield to implement a liberal agenda. Their agenda cannot stand on its own merit and fails, so that’s why they have to use these gimmicks.

“They”?

On a scale of 1-10, how stupid do you think we are?

“We”?

I want to thank you for bringing up the ingroup/outgroup dimension of the whole picture. As you may remember, Jesus addressed this whole dimension in not-so-subtle ways.

In the time of His ministry, the Jews had many “outgroups”, like we all naturally develop. Their most resented outgroup were the Roman occupiers, of course. Jesus broke through this boundary by eating with some of them. Another outgroup were the Samaritans, who considered themselves Jewish but had a different “mountain”, a different holy/political center, and they were more “liberal” in that they supposedly incorporated some aspects of other religions (this is from what I remember). Jesus used a Samaritan as an example of a person who behaved in a merciful way, as opposed to people of status in His own ingroup (the good Samaritan story).

Tax collectors were also a sub-outgroup, sort of grouped with “sinners” in general, but they were particularly hated (for understandable reasons), yet Jesus did not exclude them from His circle.

I apologize if this sounds like a lecture, but please have the patience to hear me out on this.

One purpose of Eucharist is that we form a Body that worships together and can trust one another. Because so much of modern life is found “outside the Church” for people, they naturally come to form other other trust groups, and though those trust groups in the past were based more on race or ethnicity, in our multicultural society people have come to form trust groups (ingroups) around political/ideological affiliations. (As well as sports teams!)

One error occurs when one group claims that people of one particular political/ideological affiliation are themselves more worthy of the Eucharist than the other. Do you agree with this?

And then we have the other issue of those who consider Eucharist (in the context of the community of believers, a shared meal) less important than political ideology. Would you agree, also, that this runs contrary to Jesus’ ministry, as I described His words and actions above?

So, before we go any further, I extend my hand to you, SuperLuigi. Can we be “we”?

 

[goout]

How to forgive Pope Francis

Doesn’t the Pope already have a confessor?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Doesn’t the Pope already have a confessor?

I remember being taught growing up that the Pope goes to confession every day.

 

[OneSheep]

Good Morning, Vincentleo

For example, the issue of the divorced and civily remarried receiving communion. He has not responded to the dubia but rather has continued to uphold an ambiguous position. This creates confusion and conflict among the faithful…

I scratch my head about this “conflict”, actually. Please help me on this. How does a conflict actually arise? Could you describe a situation in a parish, perhaps? I do not mean to put down your concerns, I need to be informed.

but part of the job of the pope is to be the source of unity in the Church, and this is done through doctrinal clarity.

Even when the hierarchy makes doctrine as clear as possible for people, every single human reads it with a different vocabulary, vocabularies based on completely different sets of life experiences. Doctrine can never take the place of Eucharist, right? It cannot ever take the place of acknowledging that we are the Body of Christ.

Note: I did not negate the importance of doctrinal clarity, but it needs to be put into perspective. The Truth is in relationship with God and others, right? More clarity will come in time, I think. The Holy Spirit guides us.

It is a question of tremendous importance since it pertains to mortal sin, and yet he has not clarified his teaching. This is a serious problem.

Again, this is where I fail to understand the problem, as I wrote above. Is there something happening in parishes?

 

[OneSheep]

Goout, did you read the whole OP? Please note that Mark 11:25 is core to the discussion.

Thanks

 

[Boler]

Just to clarify: the invitation is not for people who have criticisms of some of the pope’s actions but rather for people who are holding them against the pope in a personal, resentful, or even vindictive way?

Am I the only one who sees such an “invitation to forgive” as a bit oblivious, condescending, disingenuous?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I’m seeing that you really don’t understand that Pope Francis did not open the door for divorce and remarried Catholics to receive Holy Communion without going through the annulment process.

He stated such last week in making the letter by the Argentine Bishops an official document as he stated, divorced and remarried Catholics should not feel that they can receive the Sacraments without going through the process.

What Amoris Laetitia addresses, which really doesn’t need interpretation, is that the Bishop is the authority in granting an annulment, and they must use pastoral guidance for those Catholics who have been divorced and remarried, seeking to return to full union in the Church. It goes further to state that in rare cases, a Bishop who is providing pastoral care for a couple who can not obtain an annulment because of extenuating circumstances, could possibly be allowed to receive Holy Communion. This is a are situation, just as the Pope stated.

The goal is to help those couples trying to come back into the Church, who are filled with faith in Jesus Christ, to do so

Heaven forbid huh ?

Jim

 

[ChunkMonk]

This thread seems very dishonest and divisive. What was the real purpose in making this?