How to go about seeking priests to celebrate TLM

[bardegaulois]

Good evening.

I’m a member of an Una Voce chapter that sponsors one TLM a month, but we’re seeking to have Mass more often. In order to do that, we need more priests.

In our area is a house of religious, most of whom are priests. We’ve been hoping to connect with them to see if any say the TLM or are interested in learning it, and would be willing to say Mass for our chapter occasionally. The question is, how do I go about this? I’m inclined to think I should write the provincial. However, I’m not sure what the best way to do this is.

Also, there is a neighbouring diocese that has a weekly TLM, and I usually travel there on those weeks that the Mass near me is not taking place. One of the priests upon whom they relied for this cannot continue saying Mass there any longer, leaving the other priests stretched thin. So no doubt, we’re looking for another priest to say Mass there as well. As these are religious, I don’t believe the rules regarding diocesan jurisdiction apply, but correct me if I’m wrong.

I’m hoping to mention this opportunity to say the TLM as well, in the case that a priest there might occasionally be willing to take the hour’s drive to help out that community once a month. Is this advisable, or is this too much?

To recapitulate: Shall I write to the provincial? And if not, to whom? To an individual priest in the order?

And is it wise to mention the opportunity to say the TLM in the neighbouring diocese?

And please keep these communities in your prayers. Thank you.

 

[GangGreen]

I wish I had an answer for you, however, are there any younger priests in any nearby parishes? Possibly befriend one and see if he’s interested in learning TLM. I find younger priests to be more open to tradition. If you can get younger priests to learn the traditional rite then you’ll have someone who will keep it going for many years into the future.

 

[tawny]

Good evening.

I’m a member of an Una Voce chapter that sponsors one TLM a month, but we’re seeking to have Mass more often. In order to do that, we need more priests.

In our area is a house of religious, most of whom are priests. We’ve been hoping to connect with them to see if any say the TLM or are interested in learning it, and would be willing to say Mass for our chapter occasionally. The question is, how do I go about this? I’m inclined to think I should write the provincial. However, I’m not sure what the best way to do this is.

Also, there is a neighbouring diocese that has a weekly TLM, and I usually travel there on those weeks that the Mass near me is not taking place. One of the priests upon whom they relied for this cannot continue saying Mass there any longer, leaving the other priests stretched thin. So no doubt, we’re looking for another priest to say Mass there as well. As these are religious, I don’t believe the rules regarding diocesan jurisdiction apply, but correct me if I’m wrong.

I’m hoping to mention this opportunity to say the TLM as well, in the case that a priest there might occasionally be willing to take the hour’s drive to help out that community once a month. Is this advisable, or is this too much?

To recapitulate: Shall I write to the provincial? And if not, to whom? To an individual priest in the order?

And is it wise to mention the opportunity to say the TLM in the neighbouring diocese?

And please keep these communities in your prayers. Thank you.

Have you checked to see if your Dioscese/Archdioscese has a Latin Liturgy Association? They will have information regarding the Priests who are able to celebrate TLM & if any are being celebrated. Your Chancery should be able to tell you if one exists.

 

[bardegaulois]

Tawny, the troubling thing is that we are the Latin Liturgy Association in this diocese, and the group I’m helping in the neighbouring diocese is the Latin Liturgy Association there as well. GangGreen, we both are canvassing young priests where they can be found also. Alas, where we are, we can’t find too many.

 

[rben20]

OP

The best thing to do is to simply talk to the priests in the area. Setup an appointment to talk to them in person. Talk to priests who know Latin obviously. Priests ordained before Vatican II would be the ideal candidates just because they know Latin and have at one point celebrated the traditional Mass. They could be rusty but if they are willing to brush up and say the Mass it should be no problem.

If you are able to find a priest who knows Latin and also is willing to say the traditional Mass, you will need to have a large enough group that is interested to make the Priest’s time worthwhile. Get a group that has serious interest and will help you.

If a priest is not available in your area, you could go to the Bishop…but that is a much harder road to go down as Bishops tend to be really hard to get a hold of. The easier way is to simply find a priest.

I talked to two priests ordained before V2 in my hometown who knew Latin. One told me why would I want a Mass in Latin if I have a Mass in English and another told me he would do it but on a limited basis (once a month). There was simply no point in my eyes to do so much planning to only have a TLM once a month. You could also do what I did and just move to a place that has a FSSP parish to join .

 

[OraLabora]

Good evening.

I’m a member of an Una Voce chapter that sponsors one TLM a month, but we’re seeking to have Mass more often. In order to do that, we need more priests.

In our area is a house of religious, most of whom are priests. We’ve been hoping to connect with them to see if any say the TLM or are interested in learning it, and would be willing to say Mass for our chapter occasionally. The question is, how do I go about this? I’m inclined to think I should write the provincial. However, I’m not sure what the best way to do this is.

Also, there is a neighbouring diocese that has a weekly TLM, and I usually travel there on those weeks that the Mass near me is not taking place. One of the priests upon whom they relied for this cannot continue saying Mass there any longer, leaving the other priests stretched thin. So no doubt, we’re looking for another priest to say Mass there as well. As these are religious, I don’t believe the rules regarding diocesan jurisdiction apply, but correct me if I’m wrong.

I’m hoping to mention this opportunity to say the TLM as well, in the case that a priest there might occasionally be willing to take the hour’s drive to help out that community once a month. Is this advisable, or is this too much?

To recapitulate: Shall I write to the provincial? And if not, to whom? To an individual priest in the order?

And is it wise to mention the opportunity to say the TLM in the neighbouring diocese?

And please keep these communities in your prayers. Thank you.

Which order is it?

Basically priests of a religious order cannot do anything without the permission of their superior. If it’s an order of pontifical right (example Benedictines), it’s not subject to the jurisdiction of the diocese.

If you contact a priest he will no doubt tell you that you must address requests to the superior. The superior will place the needs and unity of his community above all else while remaining faithful to the Rule of its founder, so don’t be surprised by a refusal.

 

[ProVobis]

Good evening.

I’m a member of an Una Voce chapter that sponsors one TLM a month, but we’re seeking to have Mass more often. In order to do that, we need more priests.

In our area is a house of religious, most of whom are priests. We’ve been hoping to connect with them to see if any say the TLM or are interested in learning it, and would be willing to say Mass for our chapter occasionally. The question is, how do I go about this? I’m inclined to think I should write the provincial. However, I’m not sure what the best way to do this is.

Also, there is a neighbouring diocese that has a weekly TLM, and I usually travel there on those weeks that the Mass near me is not taking place. One of the priests upon whom they relied for this cannot continue saying Mass there any longer, leaving the other priests stretched thin. So no doubt, we’re looking for another priest to say Mass there as well. As these are religious, I don’t believe the rules regarding diocesan jurisdiction apply, but correct me if I’m wrong.

I’m hoping to mention this opportunity to say the TLM as well, in the case that a priest there might occasionally be willing to take the hour’s drive to help out that community once a month. Is this advisable, or is this too much?

To recapitulate: Shall I write to the provincial? And if not, to whom? To an individual priest in the order?

And is it wise to mention the opportunity to say the TLM in the neighbouring diocese?

And please keep these communities in your prayers. Thank you.

All I can advise you with is to keep looking for as many people as you can. There was talk of getting a “stable” group but realistically you will need a few hundred if you want to make it worthwhile for a priest to say one of his allocated two Sunday Masses in the extraordinary form. Look for some mailing lists you can send information to. Sow some seeds. Most Catholics, especially the younger ones who don’t even attend Mass, aren’t aware of the EF. It takes patience and determination but you’re on the right track. Keep up the good work.

 

[PacoG]

Another possibly is to start with a small goal that grows…Find a priest who will celebrate the Ordinary Form in Latin, form a small scola (which might be the way you get a young priest who is interested in music involved), and as interest and enthusiasm grows, make the transition to the Extraordinary Form. Maybe you get the priest to say the Extraordinary Form on a Solemnity or a Feast (like the Assumption.) and it grows quickly from there.

This is what I think was meant when Pope Benedict talked about the two forms mutually enriching each other. The only way we are going to get the OF in Latin like it was meant to be is if it is said in ordinary occasions like Sundays and weekdays with the EF used at extraordinary occasions (Solemnities,Octaves and Holy Days of Obligation).

This needs to be a grassroots thing that bubbles from the faithful.

 

[GangGreen]

I think the scola idea is definitely on the right track. The Low Mass is scary to people who have never been to one. It’s just spoken prayer for an hour. People are just not used to something like that. I know in a nearby parish where they do the low mass only, not many people make it out (maybe 20 people). In another church where they do a Sung Mass every other week there’s a large crowd that comes out. Granted that second church is in a more populated area. I think when they do the low mass there aren’t as many people. You’re also more likely to get people on board for the EF if you have a scola.

If that scola starts out singing in the OF this is still a good thing. You just need to work with a priest who will get on board with it. It gets people exposed to chant/polyphony and adds beauty to that Mass. Eventually, if a priest has interest it can lead into the transition to the EF.

Even here, it’s good to have people who know the Mass really well who can offer help to the priest who is learning it.

I still believe your best bet is to work with younger priests although I’m sure there are quite a few pre-VII priests out there who would love to say the Mass they grew up with. However, in terms of a long term investment, getting younger priests into the EF is a very important thing.

 

[zab]

I think that you need to inspire as many priests as you can and inform them of the need for priests to celebrate the TLM. Using beautiful pictures, videos and whatever it takes to increase the love for the TLM as well as to give information on how those priests with any interest can get the training they need. It is the younger priests who seem to be more interested in learning to celebrate the Latin Mass and that is understandable being that it is often more difficult for aging priests to learn something new. Our pastor is a rather young diocesan priest who went through training when he was still in his 30’s so that he could bring the TLM to our parish.

I’m not certain of this, but I believe that a priest from another diocese needs permission from the bishop to celebrate Mass in his diocese. I know that our pastor needs to get permission from the bishop, for example, for the military chaplains and visiting priests from outside the state to celebrate Mass in our parish.

 

[OraLabora]

I sing in a schola that does Gregorian chant for OF Masses. We chant Mass once a month, we do solemn Vespers in Gregorian chant during Advent and Lent, and Lauds on Holy Saturday. In addition we chant at funerals upon request.

I don’t think that there’s much chance of it ever progressing to the EF however.

My experience has been that when the OF is properly carried out as Sacrosanctum Concilium spelled out, the demand for the EF is very low as the degree of beauty and solemnity is very close to the EF and probably indistinguishable for the majority of folks in the pews. Between our schola, the Benedictine abbey I’m associated with which is a 35 minute drive away and within 35 minutes has a population draw of about 100,000, a Benedictine abbey (women) on the outskirts of Montreal, and two large basilicas and a cathedral doing sacred polyphony every Sunday (all in the OF), it’s generally pretty easy to find an OF Mass that is solemn, reverent and with beautiful music, at least on Sunday.

Hence our demand for EF seems low. There’s only one parish in Montreal that does it regularly, as well as a two SSPX chapels that I know of and which I avoid at all costs.

Personally I think it is of equal importance to make sure chant stays alive in the OF and that the OF be celebrated as SC intended, as it is to preserve the EF.

 

[zab]

I sing in a schola that does Gregorian chant for OF Masses. We chant Mass once a month, we do solemn Vespers in Gregorian chant during Advent and Lent, and Lauds on Holy Saturday. In addition we chant at funerals upon request.

I don’t think that there’s much chance of it ever progressing to the EF however.

My experience has been that when the OF is properly carried out as Sacrosanctum Concilium spelled out, the demand for the EF is very low as the degree of beauty and solemnity is very close to the EF and probably indistinguishable for the majority of folks in the pews. Between our schola, the Benedictine abbey I’m associated with which is a 35 minute drive away and within 35 minutes has a population draw of about 100,000, a Benedictine abbey (women) on the outskirts of Montreal, and two large basilicas and a cathedral doing sacred polyphony every Sunday (all in the OF), it’s generally pretty easy to find an OF Mass that is solemn, reverent and with beautiful music, at least on Sunday.

Hence our demand for EF seems low. There’s only one parish in Montreal that does it regularly, as well as a two SSPX chapels that I know of and which I avoid at all costs.

Personally I think it is of equal importance to make sure chant stays alive in the OF and that the OF be celebrated as SC intended, as it is to preserve the EF.

I tend to agree. While we do have the EF at our parish, usually twice a month as well as one on All Souls Day, I have only attended a very few of these both low and high Masses. But our pastor has also hired a Choir Master and Director of Music and all of our choirs even the girls choir and the children’s choir have seen much improvement. Our Easter Vigil was the most beautiful yet. And the reason that I prefer the OF and have not turned to the EF more is probably because there is nothing wrong with our Masses in the OF. They are free of liturgical abuses, beautiful traditional music with some Latin and chant, nice vestments, appropriate decorations etc. But I understand that we still have a sufficient number of people who attend the EF and some come from other parishes.

 

[bardegaulois]

Hi, thanks all for your replies. I should stress that we already do have a regular monthly EF mass, so we’re not starting from square one. We also have a schola, moreover. The neighbouring diocese, moreover, has a large weekly group, as their regular celebration started back when the indult was necessary.

Regarding priests celebrating in multiple dioceses, I know that there are numerous issues regarding diocesan priests, who are incardinated into one particular jurisdiction (and military chaplains are all, temporarily at least, incardinated into the Archdiocese for Military Services). However, I’m wondering if these issues necessarily apply to religious priests, who hold their faculties from their superior and not from a territorial bishop. I know quite a few religious priests who travel about quite a bit.

 

[zab]

Hi, thanks all for your replies. I should stress that we already do have a regular monthly EF mass, so we’re not starting from square one. We also have a schola, moreover. The neighbouring diocese, moreover, has a large weekly group, as their regular celebration started back when the indult was necessary.

Regarding priests celebrating in multiple dioceses, I know that there are numerous issues regarding diocesan priests, who are incardinated into one particular jurisdiction (and military chaplains are all, temporarily at least, incardinated into the Archdiocese for Military Services). However, I’m wondering if these issues necessarily apply to religious priests, who hold their faculties from their superior and not from a territorial bishop. I know quite a few religious priests who travel about quite a bit.

Maybe you should ask your bishop.

 

[TimothyH]

Which order is it?

Basically priests of a religious order cannot do anything without the permission of their superior. If it’s an order of pontifical right (example Benedictines), it’s not subject to the jurisdiction of the diocese.

If you contact a priest he will no doubt tell you that you must address requests to the superior. The superior will place the needs and unity of his community above all else while remaining faithful to the Rule of its founder, so don’t be surprised by a refusal.

This is what I was going to say.

The OP should be prepared for a no answer without explanation. If it doesn’t fit the order’s purpose nor comply with the rule, that will be the answer.

-Tim-

 

[Ave_Maria_1]

Yes, I would ask the Provincial if one of the priests of the Order might be able to offer the TLM. The FSSP is again offering a week long training for the TLM coming up soon and if you and some others pool your funds perhaps you could send an interested priest for the training.

We are blessed here! The FSSP did send a priest for a couple of years but then stopped. Now we have a young priest who offers the weekly TLM at noon at a nearby parish. I can go about half of the time. He also will offer it on some of the Holy Days and I got to go on Holy Thursday which was wonderful. We only have low Masses and they can take a bit of getting used to as we all are used to the noise of the Novus Ordo but once one falls in love with the prayers of this Mass and the quiet and the reverence, it becomes quite dear to the heart.

Ave Maria!

 

[OraLabora]

Yes, I would ask the Provincial if one of the priests of the Order might be able to offer the TLM.

But again don’t be surprised by a refusal. I don’t know which order it is but if it isn’t the FSSP or ICKSP (which aren’t in fact “orders”), then its primary purpose is not the provision of priests to celebrate the EF Mass. It is to live in community under the Rule of its founder and fulfill the mission of that community.

The provincial may say yes, it’s his prerogative, but he most likely would say no. There are times when at the request of the local bishop, an order may provide priests to help out in the diocese. Again the Superior is free to refuse.

My guess is that unless the bishop is the one doing the asking, you’ll be out of luck.

 

[glendab]

I think your best bet is to contact the FSSP closest to you and let them know your needs. They in turn can either supply a priest to your group or at least give you information regarding any EF Priests they know of in your area. I imagine they are quite up to date on all things EF including those who celebrate it, so they’d probably be able to provide answers ordinary priests obviously cannot. It is after all their Call within the Call to minister in this regard.

Here is the link: fssp.org/en/coordonnees.htm

That will take you to the list of places that have them, addresses and phone numbers included.

Glenda

 

[ProVobis]

But again don’t be surprised by a refusal. I don’t know which order it is but if it isn’t the FSSP or ICKSP (which aren’t in fact “orders”), then its primary purpose is not the provision of priests to celebrate the EF Mass. It is to live in community under the Rule of its founder and fulfill the mission of that community.

The provincial may say yes, it’s his prerogative, but he most likely would say no. There are times when at the request of the local bishop, an order may provide priests to help out in the diocese. Again the Superior is free to refuse.

My guess is that unless the bishop is the one doing the asking, you’ll be out of luck.

One does need to maintain a positive attitude though, no? A negative one would be self-defeating and only reinforce the status quo IMO.

 

[sjays]

I would make an enquiry at the religious communities you mentioned.

But be aware that although they are outside diocesan control, they would need the permission of the local ordinary to celebrate mass outside of their abbey/community.