How to have a wedding and keep our parents happy?

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Pickles

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I’m engaged! Yay! I’m also agnostic (baptized and raised Catholic) and my parents are very conservative, traditional Catholics. My fiance is agnostic as well (baptized Catholic, raised Catholic/southern Baptist) His mother and stepfather are Catholic while his father and step-mother are very strong Southern Baptists. Sigh

We want to get married outdoors, somewhere beautiful and scenic. We have a couple of places in mind but we haven’t chosen a venue yet. We also want a secular wedding and officiant. I don’t think any of our families will be happy. At best they’ll probably be upset, at least they may not come. They all want up married in their church with their priest/pastor. We are adults paying for everything ourselves, we don’t have to make anyone happy of course but we want them there enjoying this with us.

We haven’t talked to them too much about it, my mom and his step mother both threw fits that we didn’t want a church wedding. I want my mom involved, dress shopping and other bonding experiences but she hasn’t even talked to me since we mentioned an outdoor venue.

I realize this is a Catholic forum but thought it might be the best place to get advice in this case. I also know the easiest advice is to elope, but we don’t want to. We want the white dress, first dance, and most importantly to share this happy moment with our family and friends. I just don’t know how to get them to accept our choices, even if they don’t agree. I know I don’t have to make them happy but I don’t want them upset or absent from our big day.
 
Pickles said:
I just don’t know how to get them to accept our choices, even if they don’t agree.
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I think you are going to have to come to terms with the fact that you can’t get them to do anything.

Disappointment is all about expectations. So, it is your own expectations that you may have to adjust. Because you can only control you and no one else.
Pickles said:
I know I don’t have to make them happy but I don’t want them upset or absent from our big day.
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Well, again, you are going to have to come to terms with the fact that they might be. I know it is difficult, and hurts, but what you want is for them to change and they may not. You can only change you. It’s reality.

You and your intended are both baptized as Catholics, therefore you are both bound by Church law on marriage, objectively speaking, whether you embrace or reject it. And of course the moral law as well. Your parents know this, and are concerned for you.

Try to see that this is out of concern for you and for your soul, and NOT an attempt to hurt you. It’s genuine concern on their part.

However, it is misplaced to try to force a couple who have rejected religion to have a “church wedding” wherein they are asked to make promises they have no intention of keeping.

You and he are being honest. That is the right thing to do. We all have to face that being honest, and doing what we think is the right thing to do, often comes at a cost and sometimes it’s a high one and it sucks.
 
Given that most people posting on this forum are strong Catholics and believe that a marriage should be done in the Catholic church, which generally means abiding by the Church rules, and in the church building, with a priest presiding, etc., this may not be the best place for you to come for advice.

If you’ve already decided that you want to get married outside and not have a priest and are paying for it yourselves, then that’s your choice. As a Catholic, I’m not going to endorse it or give you some way to better sell your parents on the idea. If I were your mom I’d be upset too and nothing you could do, short of get married in the church, would fix it. Sorry.
 
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Do they know you both are agnostic?

I’m not sure you can be married in the Catholic Church if you are not practicing, and have agnostic beliefs. Marriage is a sacrament, and in the very least you need to believe in sacramental grace.
 
Pickles said:
I just don’t know how to get them to accept our choices, even if they don’t agree.
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You can’t control other people, you can only give them the opportunity to be happy with you if they choose to do so.

My advice would be to do your wedding the way you want it and hope that your parents decide they want to be part of it.
 
I guess you would know better than I would.

Yes they are still Catholic, but would a pastor marry them if they are doing it just to mske the parents happy. Can a person receive a sacrament if they don’t believe it?
 
It’s a difficult situation, OP. I agree with how you’re doing it - don’t marry in a religious ceremony if you’re not going to follow the religion, it’s not fair on any of you. I hope it all works out for you.
 
F_Marturana said:
Yes they are still Catholic, but would a pastor marry them if they are doing it just to mske the parents happy. Can a person receive a sacrament if they don’t believe it?
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As I said, it is misplaced to try to force a couple who have rejected religion to have a “church wedding” wherein they are asked to make promises they have no intention of keeping.

Some priests would marry them, I suppose, even though they really should not.

Also, some priests might marry them unaware of the situation. I know young people who have lied to a priest’s face about living together, their intention to practice the faith, and other things in order to get that church wedding to have mom and dad ease off their backs, to make grandma happy, or to get the beautiful historic church for the pictures, among other reasons.

That’s the wrong thing to do and the OP has the integrity not to go down that path.
 
Can. 1071 §1.4. Except in a case of necessity, a person is not to assist without the permission of the local ordinary at a marriage of a person who has notoriously rejected the Catholic faith;

This is a pastoral decision on the part of the priest.

Notoriously in this context means that it is known publicly and it is more than just “not practicing”. John Paul II talks about it in Familiaris Consortio (68).

Also, if they move forward, then the party who has notoriously defected is treated as if this is a mixed marriage and the canons of 1125 must be fulfilled.

The canons don’t foresee BOTH parties as being defected from the faith and approaching for marriage. So, that would indeed be difficult to meet the criteria of 1125 since it requires promises of raising children in the Catholic faith.

All in all, in this situation, it is likely a priest would not be able to move forward with the sacrament of marriage-- if the couple is being honest with him.
 
So what is your objection to a Catholic wedding. You don’t have to have a Mass, but you can have a Catholic wedding.
Are you slaying you have zero intention of ever being a practicing Catholic ever again?
Not going to baptize children in the faith?

What?
 
Well, if that is the case, no priest would agree to marry them.
The parents will find that out soon enough.
 
It’s cases like this that make me wish there was still formal defection. If there was the OP may not be bound to Canon Law.

I also doubt it would be possible to be dispensed since they don’t plan on living a Catholic marriage.
 
Well, though I don’t know the odds of it happening on account of both of you being agnostic, you might still consider getting a dispensation from the pastor of the parish you live in to have a wedding outside the Church. If a dispensation was granted, that would probably ease the practicing Catholic side of your family’s concerns about you getting married outside the Church. But the pastor is who you would have to talk to about that.

And of course I want to remind you that you’re always welcome to become a practicing Catholic again. We’re open Saturday evenings and Sunday.
 
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Congratulations on your engagement!

Will some bishops will permit outdoor Catholic ceremonies?

OP, I understand you are disaffected with religion right now. But religious or not, couples need a strong support system to have the best chance of a strong marriage.

I would try very hard to find some way to compromise, in order to get your family on board.

Is there a possibility of having a small church ceremony with the priest and just your closest relatives, followed by a license signing? Followed by an outdoor celebration?
 
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While your parents are likely going to be moderately upset that you aren’t having a Church wedding, what they really are upset at is that you are rejecting the Catholic faith. I suggest before you have any bonding experiences with your mom over white dresses, you talk to her about your agnositicism. Does she have any idea yet? If not, this really isn’t something to spring on her in the form of a Save the Date Card. Your parents will have a hundred feelings about this. They may feel like they’ve failed as parents. They may feel like you are rejecting them by rejecting God. I have to make some assumptions about how you feel, but if these sentiments ring true to you, you might say something along the lines of, “This isn’t about you or your parenting. I love you and respect you and your beliefs. I’ve studied and thought a lot about the teaching of the Church and I just do not believe in God. Because I respect the faith so much, I can’t make a farce of it by standing in a church and proclaiming things I do not believe, nor will I lie to a priest about my intentions in order to have that opportunity.” Perhaps (if you feel this way.) you might also point out that your parent’s example of a Christian marriage has inspired you in many ways and while you don’t believe in God, you do love and respect the example they have given you and it will make a difference in the way you will interact with your husband and children. Keeping in mind that your mom has been dreaming of that white dress just as long as you have, you might suggest that you go together to speak to a priest about the issue of your intended wedding. I’m honestly not sure what advice he with give to you. I highly doubt he would agree to marry you in the Catholic Church if you tell him honestly that you are agnostic. Often they will marry couples who are kind of living like pagens but they claim they still believe in God, kind of, and intend to bring their kids up in the church, we guess. That’s different from straight up saying that you simply don’t believe. However, the priest can explain to your parents why he can’t just give you a fake Catholic wedding. On the other hand, you will have to accept it if he tells them that they can’t participate in your secular wedding. My hope is that is not what you will hear, but at least if it is, you will hear it from the priest and it will come with some sort of explaination.
 
If one of my children had reached adulthood, and was in the situation of the original poster above, my main concern would be with the fact that he has left the Catholic Church and become an agnostic. I would not be so concerned about him not having a church wedding.

Being concerned over a church wedding in this situation would be like putting the cart before the horse. Yes, a wedding in the Catholic Church would be ideal, but a Catholic wedding presupposes that at least one of the prospective spouses believes that Jesus is the Son of God, is a practicing Catholic, and intends to have a Catholic marriage (including raising children in the Catholic faith). But if both prospective spouses are agnostic and presumably are not practicing any faith, then I don’t see how a church wedding makes sense.

I think it makes more sense for a parent to focus on the root issue (my child has rejected the Catholic faith) rather than focusing on a mere symptom (my child does not intend to have a church wedding). However, I can’t guarantee that your parents or your fiance’s parents will look at it that way.
 
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Speak to the Catholic pastor about receiving a dispensation to marry outside in a secular ceremony. It may be granted. The worst that can happen is the Bishop says no.
 
They asked for ways to keep their parents happy.

A dispensation from form would allow them to get married by a JOP at a Theme Park if they wished AND the parents would be able to attend with a clear conscience.
 
I offered an option, they are grown ups, they can consider that option and reject it or make a phone call.
 
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