How to help suicidal people?

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fakename

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I wrote this:

To all those who want to kill themselves or who have a bad life:
  1. there are only a few things you should do that anyone else has to do:
a)offer your sufferings to God -even the saints had disappointing lives.

b)resign yourself to what God has done or allowed in your life -either its disappointments and failures are a punishment or they are measures of redemptive suffering for others.

c) don’t kill yourself since, if willfully done, it will land you in hell (there are no other places for any spirit besides hell or heaven) and that would be your ultimate failure. So don’t kill yourself and perchance you’ll get to heaven -a success at something and a very large something.

But I’m sure it’s not my best work -there has to be a way to help these guys through reason, but the problem is that many people in this age group probably don’t even believe in God so I hardly have any common ground on which to proceed with my help.

any help?
 
I wrote this:

To all those who want to kill themselves or who have a bad life:
  1. there are only a few things you should do that anyone else has to do:
a)offer your sufferings to God -even the saints had disappointing lives.

b)resign yourself to what God has done or allowed in your life -either its disappointments and failures are a punishment or they are measures of redemptive suffering for others.

c) don’t kill yourself since, if willfully done, it will land you in hell (there are no other places for any spirit besides hell or heaven) and that would be your ultimate failure. So don’t kill yourself and perchance you’ll get to heaven -a success at something and a very large something.

But I’m sure it’s not my best work -there has to be a way to help these guys through reason, but the problem is that many people in this age group probably don’t even believe in God so I hardly have any common ground on which to proceed with my help.

any help?
I appreciate your thoughts. But, as someone who has been suicidal for some horrific reasons… A suicidal person is one who might be driven to the furthest point…enough to believe hell is where they belong.

I think the point that saints faced hardship is a good one, but from personal experience of atheism and self-hatred… it is possible for a person to literally want to damn themself. I wish it weren’t true, but it is.

Probably the best thing anyone can offer a suicidal person is love and full acceptance, understanding and the drive to fight back against the darkness… this is from a non-official-catholic… take that for what it is worth.

What I’ve told my atheist friends is that their suffering, and the suffering of others is meaningless without God. If allowed, God will turn the evil in their lives to a purpose, give it meaning, and help prevent the evil they’ve experienced. Giving up allows the evil in themselves and the world to win.

It’s a similar story to your b, but in slightly different wording. Otherwise, I applaud any effort made to salvage those who have declared themselves unsalvagable… 👍
 
My official self-help post:

look people,

Even I have a bad life by your standards but I don’t want to kill myself and plenty of people live bad lives and don’t want to kill themselves (SEE: all of Africa, the Holocaust), so if someone could endure extreme horror like that, much more could any of us endure our failures. Persevere I say!

What’s the worst that can happen in life: torture,execution,slow starvation -and yet the vast majority of persecuted peoples in all history have never offed themselves. So again what do we have to fear from bad/no jobs, bad gaming ability, bad relationships, etc. that we have to kill ourselves? Persevere!

**thoughts?

An anonymous melancholic:**

"i’m 28y/o

i fail at everything i do

relationships

careers

interviews

sports

even video games

i want to end my life so soon!!

i cannot change my fate!

i’m so tired!

life is just so unfair

hell i’ll be there!!!"

My response: **why would you want to go to hell though?

honestly that would be the best failure -an eternity of hell plus a bad life=worse failure, right?

Good luck with life -it always gets better in some way.

Success is overrated anyway.
**
Again thoughts?
 
I appreciate your thoughts. But, as someone who has been suicidal for some horrific reasons… A suicidal person is one who might be driven to the furthest point…enough to believe hell is where they belong.

I think the point that saints faced hardship is a good one, but from personal experience of atheism and self-hatred… it is possible for a person to literally want to damn themself. I wish it weren’t true, but it is.

Probably the best thing anyone can offer a suicidal person is love and full acceptance, understanding and the drive to fight back against the darkness… this is from a non-official-catholic… take that for what it is worth.
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
 
As someone who’s tried to commit suicide twice, I don’t find your OP helpful. At all.
 
I appreciate your thoughts. But, as someone who has been suicidal for some horrific reasons… A suicidal person is one who might be driven to the furthest point…enough to believe hell is where they belong.

I think the point that saints faced hardship is a good one, but from personal experience of atheism and self-hatred… it is possible for a person to literally want to damn themself. I wish it weren’t true, but it is.

Probably the best thing anyone can offer a suicidal person is love and full acceptance, understanding and the drive to fight back against the darkness… this is from a non-official-catholic… take that for what it is worth.

What I’ve told my atheist friends is that their suffering, and the suffering of others is meaningless without God. If allowed, God will turn the evil in their lives to a purpose, give it meaning, and help prevent the evil they’ve experienced. Giving up allows the evil in themselves and the world to win.

It’s a similar story to your b, but in slightly different wording. Otherwise, I applaud any effort made to salvage those who have declared themselves unsalvagable… 👍
Question: how can someone both want to die and still find life important enough to want love or acceptance?
 
to the OP-

Depression and suicidal epression are illnesses that need medical treatment not platitudes about how people “should” feel. The best thing you can do is be loving, accepting and help the person get to a doctor.
Often when people kill themselves they are in so much emotional and mental pain it is no longer bearable. Their thinking/reasoning is impaired by this. I speak from experience. As my priest said, when people kill themselves in this state, it is really the illness that kills them not simply suicide. When can expect God’s mercy in such situations.

If you know someone who is suicidal you should treat it as a medical emergency, not sit around and debate why or why the condition exists.
 
There is only one appropriate way to help…get medical attention immediately! Once that is in place…then listen…

anything else is irresponsible.
 
to the OP-

Depression and suicidal epression are illnesses that need medical treatment not platitudes about how people “should” feel. The best thing you can do is be loving, accepting and help the person get to a doctor.
Often when people kill themselves they are in so much emotional and mental pain it is no longer bearable. Their thinking/reasoning is impaired by this. I speak from experience. As my priest said, when people kill themselves in this state, it is really the illness that kills them not simply suicide. When can expect God’s mercy in such situations.

If you know someone who is suicidal you should treat it as a medical emergency, not sit around and debate why or why the condition exists.
👍 Totally Agree

I’ve been in this situation before and I’m not proud of it nor do I like it.

People mentally ill don’t need platitudes as you said.

Non-Judgment, Great Compassion and a Big Listening Heart.
Being there for them for support without judging is the best thing anyone can do. Having the guts to call 911 or bring them to the hospital for help when moments are at their dire worse.

Always remain a non-judgmental friend too them. When their mentally stable without being a threat to themselves they will respect you for it even if they don’t tell you in so many words.

Educating oneself about various forms of Mental Illness is very prudent.
All forms of mental Illness are debilitating and make such people very vulnerable.
 
You know, if I say something wrongly and it encourages depressed people to kill themselves am I responsible for their deaths?
 
You know, if I say something wrongly and it encourages depressed people to kill themselves am I responsible for their deaths?
No disrespect; but sometimes its having the wisdom to know when to give advice to someone who is mentally ill. I don’t pretend or boast to have that wisdom which is best left to a professional or a priest who has training.

So as being a unprofessional myself its best to adopt what I tried to articulate earlier,
Non-Judgment, Great Compassion and a Big Listening Heart.

Even having and using these qualities doesn’t guarantee success but it is a good starting point when confronting any person really who’s mentally at the deep end.

Half of the wisdom and humility is knowing and admitting to ourselves that we ourselves are powerless to influence change within others let alone ourselves.

This can be applied to so many facets of life.

Peace
Chris
 
No disrespect; but sometimes its having the wisdom to know when to give advice to someone who is mentally ill. I don’t pretend or boast to have that wisdom which is best left to a professional or a priest who has training.

So as being a unprofessional myself its best to adopt what I tried to articulate earlier,
Non-Judgment, Great Compassion and a Big Listening Heart.

Even having and using these qualities doesn’t guarantee success but it is a good starting point when confronting any person really who’s mentally at the deep end.

Half of the wisdom and humility is knowing and admitting to ourselves that we ourselves are powerless to influence change within others let alone ourselves.

This can be applied to so many facets of life.

Peace
Chris
I do want to say this:

Just know that there are people here who do care enough to listen and see how your problems turn out.

would that help or am I being too mushy?
 
I do want to say this:

Just know that there are people here who do care enough to listen and see how your problems turn out.

would that help or am I being too mushy?
Not at all; I have nothing to hide in my imperfections or my past mental illness.

August 25th, 1979 Gang-Rape and Torture at Gunpoint and diagnosed in early 2003 with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
which i still carry within me in varying degrees. A long story suffice to say I kept it silent for twenty three years telling absolutely nobody not even those closest to me.

I sought psychotherapy in very early January, 2003 after trying to commit suicide several times, thankfully unsuccessfully which I give greater thanks to God and my Catholic Faith.

There’s nothing gained in the stupidity of suicide. Such cowardice in mental affliction resolves nothing. I can boast nothing but humility in Gods Love and submission to His Will. I’m inexplicably far from perfection. And I have great need to grow spiritually and humble myself far more still in sight of my Faith in God.

Friend; I do not know what kind of suffering you yourself carry. But please know that people do care as I too care. Your Never alone.

Peace
Chris
 
Not at all; I have nothing to hide in my imperfections or my past mental illness.

August 25th, 1979 Gang-Rape and Torture at Gunpoint and diagnosed in early 2003 with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
which i still carry within me in varying degrees. A long story suffice to say I kept it silent for twenty three years telling absolutely nobody not even those closest to me.

I sought psychotherapy in very early January, 2003 after trying to commit suicide several times, thankfully unsuccessfully which I give greater thanks to God and my Catholic Faith.

There’s nothing gained in the stupidity of suicide. Such cowardice in mental affliction resolves nothing. I can boast nothing but humility in Gods Love and submission to His Will. I’m inexplicably far from perfection. And I have great need to grow spiritually and humble myself far more still in sight of my Faith in God.

Friend; I do not know what kind of suffering you yourself carry. But please know that people do care as I too care. Your Never alone.

Peace
Chris
do you think just saying what I said would be appropriate for speaking to someone in a suicidal state of mind? (yes I do know to also get medical advice but still I do need to speak to them).
 
Hello fakename:

Many years ago I was a window cleaner, and I called on a lady whom I had known for a number of years. She said, if I tell you something, will you promise not to tell anyone else, having known her for some time, I thought I was going to hear some gossip, and agreed.

She said she was in the process of ending her life, she was taking too many tablets on a daily basis, over time this would destroy her liver. The damage would be irreversible at some point; and she would suffer a painful death. ( I do not want to name the tablets on a public forum )

She told me her story, some of which I already knew, she was an elderly lady, and said that everyone who was important to her in her life had used her and left. Her husband ran of with her assets and another woman, her business partner bankrupted her fraudulently, her children only came to see her when they wanted something from her.

It was only her elderly dog that loved her, and stayed loyal to her. She had a lodger in the house, and one day the lodger kicked the dog, either accidentally, or on purpose. The dog died a painful death over the following month, being sick and howling at night. She kicked the lodger out and decided to end her life.

My response was to say that dying is not the problem, rather leaving this world a bitter and angry woman is not the way to leave this Earth. I talked about finding some way to forgive this person, even if you continue on your chosen path, I talked for some time about forgiveness.

There came a point when she had said all she could, and there was no more I could say, other than its pointless coming back next month to clean your windows.
She said come back.

I did phone her a couple of days later, and came back the following month, she’d had her kitchen decorated and was planning to landscape her garden. She never mentioned taking her life again.

I had left her with a terrible burden, every day she would have to live with the memory of the painful death of the only thing that loved her, and strive to overcome her anger.

letting go of anger, and striving to forgive, helped this lady find a purpose in life. At the time nether she or I had a faith in God, but this is one of the things that has brought me closer to God.

Blessings

Eric
 
do you think just saying what I said would be appropriate for speaking to someone in a suicidal state of mind? (yes I do know to also get medical advice but still I do need to speak to them).
do you think just saying what I said would be appropriate for speaking to someone in a suicidal state of mind?
I really can’t say given the little information you’ve implied in your statement.
Respectfully; I’m at a loss to draw on conclusions. Only you can answer that truly.
I was only offering you advice to consider in my experiences of speaking with others who have gone through similar experiences I have.

But I can say that not everybody with a host of different sufferings, least those who are suicidal prone is ready mentally to have someone offering them help. Much of this is derived from how tactful those speaking and offering help believe they are even with the best of intentions. Again; only you can answer this.

I would say too it largely depends on your relationship with this individual.
 
I really can’t say given the little information you’ve implied in your statement.
Respectfully; I’m at a loss to draw on conclusions. Only you can answer that truly.
I was only offering you advice to consider in my experiences of speaking with others who have gone through similar experiences I have.

But I can say that not everybody with a host of different sufferings, least those who are suicidal prone is ready mentally to have someone offering them help. Much of this is derived from how tactful those speaking and offering help believe they are even with the best of intentions. Again; only you can answer this.

I would say too it largely depends on your relationship with this individual.
I don’t think that I mentioned this but I’m randomly helping them on an online forum -just giving my 2 cents. Am I obligated to continue to help them until I’m sure they didn’t commit suicide?
 
I used to volunteer answering the phones of a Youth Crisis Hotline, so I have training and experience at this type of thing. Once I taught my daughter about suicide intervention when she was only in seventh grade, and she was able to talk a friend into quitting “cutting” herself, and to quit wanting to kill herself – it isn’t complicated, but you have to know what you are doing.

Recently I thought I might go back to it, but turns out they don’t use volunteers anymore; you have to be certified. 🤷

First, realize that the person you are dealing with may have had problems for years – maybe even their whole lives. Chances are, in an Internet post or two, or in a ten minute phone conversation, you cannot fix their problems. And you have to be mentally prepared to accept that they just might go ahead and do it, and if that happens you cannot blame yourself – such blame is destructive. One counselor actually saw an article in the newspaper a few days after she talked to a child in trouble. They call this the “Superman Complex.” You think it is Your Solemn Duty to save this child, and if you don’t then you have failed.

Second, realize that you may be the first person ever that is willing and able to hear them out. Telling you their story, in and of itself, may go a long way in helping them cope with their problems. Maybe you can’t fix their problems, but you might help reframe them. Understand their problems and how they feel about them, and then see if you can offer some different ways of looking at the situation.

DO NOT tell them that things will be OK, because that’s garbage to them. DO NOT tell them that it isn’t as bad as they think, or that suicide is a silly or a Bad Idea, or basically you are now calling them an idiot – and if they had confided in anyone before, chances are they’ve already heard this and if it worked they wouldn’t be calling you. They are looking for more than to be scolded or told they would be stupid to go through with it. Also, I almost never said things like, “don’t you think your family will miss you” UNLESS they brought it up first and I was just asking for clarification. They may have in their mind that if they kill themselves and the family misses them, it would actually make them realize what they have lost. Some of them go so far as to imagine what their epitaphs would be – besides, others’ loss serves them (and the rest of the world) right for whatever it is that is driving them to despair.

EMPATHY is the biggest tool you have. Notice I did NOT say sympathy. There is a huge difference. Empathy is that you feel their pain, or understand their feelings at least. Sympathy is if you feel sorry for them. Save the sympathy. There may be plenty of people who feel sorry for them already, and if they like the sympathy, you are rewarding them for being suicidal. Until we get into the conversation, I try to stay emotionally neutral, but actively listening. Here’s how to have empathy: when they tell you this or that happened, ask them questions about it. In some cases it might be useful to ask them to clarify details, but if you understand what they are telling you, the next step is to get how they feel about it on the table. Chances are, they’ve never talked to anyone who gets them to that point because most untrained people, when they hear a person is going to kill themselves, they get emotional or tell them what to do – and if they get so far as to hear the details of the problem, then at that point they will start jumping to conclusions, but if you don’t know how they feel about it (and don’t assume you do because you’ve never been in their shoes) then you may say just the opposite thing they need to hear.

So when they tell you, “my father/mother/brother/uncle/whatever said/did this and that, then this happened and I said that, and then this, blah blah blah.” When they stop to take a breath, OPTIONALLY if you don’t understand what they have said you might say, “I’m sorry, I wasn’t sure if it was your brother or your sister who said that you were stupid because of your bad report card?” Make it specific, so they know you were paying attention, or they have no reason to even talk to you. I put “optionally” in capital letters because you don’t necessarily have to understand and remember all the details. The most important thing is that they tell you enough for you to make a good “guess” as to how they feel. This is where the empathy comes in.

Once you understand enough about their situation, use your guess to find out if you “felt” their story. This is critical. It’s not enough to understand it. They want to know that you felt it. So here’s how you empathize. You say, “wow. When your dad said he was ashamed of you, did you feel angry at him?” Now they know you were listening, and that you’re trying to understand, and that you care enough to make sure that you do. They might say, “yes. I was angry, but I knew if I said anything he would hit me, so I pretended to be ashamed,” or, “not really. I just felt terrible because I knew what I did was stupid/wrong/dangerous and when he said that it made me even more ashamed of myself.” It doesn’t matter if you are right, just that whatever you ask has to have some logical connection to the story they just told and that you now understand. For example, you could just as well have asked, “when your dad said he was ashamed of you, did you feel ashamed of yourself?” Same thing. Maybe you were right, maybe you were wrong. But once they confirm or clarify it, NOW you can say something like, “I can see how you might be ashamed/angry/lonely/depressed in a situation like that.”

(continued in next post)
 
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