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StevieD
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I believe in ONE, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
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Indifferently
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Yes, as do I, as do all Christians. It is the mystical Body of Christ, into which we are all incorporate through Baptism.
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StevieD
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Not quite, as you no doubt, know, many Christians don’t regard Catholics as Christians let alone part of the One catholic church of the creed and they, and you, have the truth ‘on its head’. God’s Church accepts ONE authority in the interpretation of Scripture and tradition. That is THE Catholic Church presided over by the successor of Peter, no-one not in Communion with Peter’s successor is a member of His Church.
For example, how can those who deny the validity of infant baptism and those who do believe that adult baptism is essential to be saved and those who don’t believe that baptism is necessary for anyone, all be members of the ONE Catholic Church. They can’t.
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GKC
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Circumspice.Indeed. You have your view, we have ours, they aren’t the same.
Tell me about it.
GKC
That’s Cardinal Ratzinger or Pope Benedict. I’m not accusing you of anything but “Mr.” Ratzinger is just objectively disrespectful to say the least.
You cannot stop them. They call themselves Catholic because the affirm the Catholic heritage of the Anglican church rather than the Protestant (as the Evangelical Anglicans are more likely to do.) They’re really referring more to practice and belief over actual visible communion with the Holy Father.
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GKC
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Peter_J
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I wouldn’t say that they “affirm the Catholic heritage of the Anglican church **rather **than the Protestant”. Rather, they see it as a “both and” rather than an “either or”.
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Peter_J
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ECs aren’t Roman-Rite Catholics.So even though Eastern Catholics are in communion with Rome, they are not Roman Catholic?
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GKC
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Actually, from speaking with the former Anglo-Catholics here in Calgary, it appears that it is indeed a “rather than” instead of “both/and”. They affirmed Catholic doctrines that would drive Protestants crazy. They were Catholic in every way except for visible communion with Rome.
It was also a reason they decided to join the Catholic Church via the Ordinariate.
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GKC
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BVMFatima
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So when the Church calls itself the Roman Catholic Church, or the Holy Roman Church Christ established, or even says the Roman Catholic Church is the truth, I guess it only means the Roman Rite?
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Peter_J
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Personally, I try not to use the term “Roman Catholic Church”. I would say “the Catholic Church” or “the Roman Communion”.
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GKC
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Oh. Them.That was the convenient them.
But seriously, I mean those who don’t see “catholic” and “protestant” as contradictory adjectives.
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Azygos
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If Anglicans are baptized and believe in the basic fundamentals of Christianity then they are part of the Body of Christ which is the Catholic (Universal) Church (Unless they spiritually excommunicate themselves). This is why we call them our separated brethren. Is the Physical Church they attend Catholic? Absolutely NOT, because they do not have Valid Holy Orders (It is man-made, Not Of God). All Protestant denominations including all Anglicans do not have Valid Holy Orders therefore the sacraments of confession and the Eucharist are Not Valid. They have tried to claim them Valid but the Catholic Church says they lost Validity in the Protestant Reformation as did all Protestant sects. Since the Catholic Church has put together a council and declared it so then it must be true, after all it is the pillar and foundation of the truth. I don’t see them reversing this decision, ever…
Anglicans cannot (normally) receive complete sanctification outside of one holy, catholic, and apostolic church. They need confession and the Eucharist to achieve this. The Church Fathers were not kidding when they said there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church (The Body of Christ). Although they are partial members and they may enter heaven it will not be because they are saved (achieved complete sanctification). It will be because they were sanctified in purgatory…
I suppose their are exceptions to this rule as an Anglican could baptize someone on their death bed making that person an Anglican worthy of heaven, thus skipping purgatory (See Matthew 20:1-16, helps to understand deathbed conversions). The problem with protestants sects is that they receive the grace needed for heaven when they are baptized but how do they maintain this free gift of grace? It is through the sacraments especially confession and the Eucharist, which are invalid in their physical church.
Anglicans cannot (normally) receive complete sanctification outside of one holy, catholic, and apostolic church. They need confession and the Eucharist to achieve this. The Church Fathers were not kidding when they said there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church (The Body of Christ). Although they are partial members and they may enter heaven it will not be because they are saved (achieved complete sanctification). It will be because they were sanctified in purgatory…
I suppose their are exceptions to this rule as an Anglican could baptize someone on their death bed making that person an Anglican worthy of heaven, thus skipping purgatory (See Matthew 20:1-16, helps to understand deathbed conversions). The problem with protestants sects is that they receive the grace needed for heaven when they are baptized but how do they maintain this free gift of grace? It is through the sacraments especially confession and the Eucharist, which are invalid in their physical church.
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Peter_J
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And yet, a great many non-Catholics (including plenty of Orthodox) use the term “the Catholic Church” the same way we do, i.e. referring to the Roman Communion.
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Indifferently
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Roman Communion is a good phrase. I tend often to think of Rome as a rather large Diocese, because often her bishops seem more like Papal delegates than apostolic successors. With there only being one bona fide Bishop in the old fashioned sense, the Bishop of Rome.
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