How to Increase Mass Attendance/Grow a Parish?

[Bull]

Bull, you say that you had a great 4 months…and so what exactly is the problem? Are the newcomers not staying? Are the number of newcomers waning?

Also, why don’t you send a survey to the newcomers. Ask them what drew them to your parish, ask them what they are looking for in a parish and ask them if they found it in yours.

We have been blessed with a HUGE number of visitors. That has translated into a very respectable number of actual sign-ups with the parish.

The problem is that few want to share in shouldering the responsibility (and to a lessor degree the cost) of publicising the parish. For example the core group (including the pastor) have staffed a table each week on Saturdays at something local called the “Coastal Walk.” That effort has led to new people entering the parish. The problem is that the people who have been staffing the table are tried and need and break and no one really wants to take their place. We’re only four months into it and people are already showing they aren’t willing to step-up. So the Coastal Walk will be done beginning next week.

We do a lot of things like the Coastal Walk but my guess is, it won’t be for long.

 

[Bull]

Well I’ll use my parent’s parish as an example. They have 24-hour adoration every 17th of the month as well as additional periods specified for adoration throughout the month. They have Benediction every First Friday and a precession. In addition to what I see for the Vietnamese parishioners, they have benediction for Spanish and English speaking parishioners. In addition to this they offer regular Station of the Cross and weekly confessions every weekend. During the First Fridays, the pews are only half full but there’s still a great number of people. During Benediction, a great deal of people are there, probably a third to a half of the active parishioners. And reconciliation with four priests and the Vietnamese lines stays between 10-20 people during the full hour of reconciliation.

With all this active reverence and soul searching, every Sunday Mass done in Vietnamese are packed with people in the pews and standing along the walls and at the various entrances.

I could be totally wrong but I see Reconciliation and Adoration with Benediction have this trickling down effect. Souls that are washed are proud to be near Christ. The Adoration reminds and reteaches each one of us the difference between God and man so that we know who we need to worship. It’s not going to be your husband, or your wife, or your cool ideas you have, or your work, or your kids, or your money, or your luxuries. It’s going to be God who we exult with both our body (through community prayer and adoration) and in our minds (through the confessing of our sins and adoration).

In addition to frequent reconciliation and Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, they have over 44+ adult and youth groups to simulate and satisfy the yearning of the soul. Below is the website and most of the groups are parishioner started groups with the approval of the Pastor. Also I should make it clear it is not a physically large church and does not look impressive. It is a very average looking church.

blessedsacramentparish.com/

You’re in OC? If you are you have the luxury (I guess?) of being in a diocese with a shortage of pew space. It’s been that way for quite some time and it’s due largely to growth from people moving into your diocese and what some would consider insufficient investment in new churches.

That aside, was the Mass attendance/size of your parish a great deal smaller before you began all the activities you have listed? That would be interesting to know along with a timeframe. Thank you.

 

[Cat]

We have been blessed with a HUGE number of visitors. That has translated into a very respectable number of actual sign-ups with the parish.

The problem is that few want to share in shouldering the responsibility (and to a lessor degree the cost) of publicising the parish. For example the core group (including the pastor) have staffed a table each week on Saturdays at something local called the “Coastal Walk.” That effort has led to new people entering the parish. The problem is that the people who have been staffing the table are tried and need and break and no one really wants to take their place. We’re only four months into it and people are already showing they aren’t willing to step-up. So the Coastal Walk will be done beginning next week.

We do a lot of things like the Coastal Walk but my guess is, it won’t be for long.

You need a break after only FOUR MONTHS!!!



That is the wimpiest thing I’ve ever heard. That is shameful.

Evangelical Protestants who heard that Catholics need a break from ministry after only four months would laugh their heads off! It’s been ten minutes since I read the post, and I’m still chuckling about it.

Four months?!

If other people won’t help you, do it alone. **In four years you can take a break, OK? **

That’s how long Christian and MIssionary Alliance missionaries spend on the mission field before earning a furlough back to the U.S. And they spend several months of their furlough going “on tour,” speaking at hundreds of churches and presenting slides, power points, and lectures about their missionary work.

I spent 40 years working my butt off in the evangelical Protestant churches!

I actually did 30 straight years of Vacation Bible school, including the years that I had babies–I have a picture of my 2-month old baby daughter sitting in a babyseat in the VBS nursery next to a 3-month old baby of a friend of mine! We didn’t take a break even for our babies.

My husband and I even did VBS the WEEK BEFORE our wedding!

I have stated in other posts that as an evangelical, I (and many others) routinely spent 5-6 days/evenings a week in the church or preparing for a ministry in the church.

The list of my various ministries and involvements in the evangelical Protestant churches would break the memory capacity of this online board. And I did all this with babies! (They just came along with me, or stayed with Daddy.)

I know a lot of older evangelical Protestant women who don’t ever take a break from ministry. They are still teaching Sunday school, Ladies Bible study, youth group, VBS, working in the church as a deaconness, attending a weekly prayer meeting or two, protesting the abortion clinic, counselling at the pregnancy care center, raising foster children, helping raise funds for a Safe House for abused women–and that’s just one woman’s work, a real woman.

And they still have time for an hour of prayer and Bible study every single day.

And they love their husbands.

My mother (RIP) was in a nursing home during her last few years of life due to crippling rheumatoid arthritis that had turned her into a twisted gargoyle. She volunteered to serve on the Nursing Home Council (she told me that since she still had a good mind, she should speak up for others who didn’t). TWO DAYS before she died, she couldn’t even swallow food because she was so weak. Yet one of her last questions to me was, “Should I continue working on the Council?”

I’m sorry if I sound like I’m ridiculing you, but I believe a little ridicule is appropriate. The very idea of giving up after only four months is so completely unbelievable to me as a former evangelical Protestant. It’s incomprehensible. Our evangelical lay leaders were generally elected to a one-year term, and in some churches, a four year term of service. Many of these leaders work until the day they die.

One of the Protestant men in our city played the organ and served as a music director at various churches (Protestant and Catholic) for over 60 years. Two weeks before he died, he played the organ at his church.

Like I said, if no one else will help you, do it alone. If it is truly eating up your time with your wife and children or stealing your work time or your spiritual time, then figure out a way to do the work that doesn’t interfere with your other responsibilities. I know a lot of evangelicals who get up at 3 in the morning.

I mentioned in another post that you should make friends with an evangelical in your city. Perhaps that would be dangerous–you might keel over with exhaustion after one day of keeping company with an evangelical Protestant.

Again, I’m sorry to take a ridiculing tone with this post. I’m only trying to make you see that your God is much too small and so is your timeline. You need to think in terms of eternity, not a few months.

 

[StillWondering]

You’re in OC? If you are you have the luxury (I guess?) of being in a diocese with a shortage of pew space. It’s been that way for quite some time and it’s due largely to growth from people moving into your diocese and what some would consider insufficient investment in new churches.

That aside, was the Mass attendance/size of your parish a great deal smaller before you began all the activities you have listed? That would be interesting to know along with a timeframe. Thank you.

I started in this parish when I was 5 and slept in Church most of the time as a child next to my father. Not my whole family was able to come to the States at this time. So my recollection as a child may not be as detailed as above. I do remember there being a great deal less groups, and the pews had enough space for a child like myself. There were some more immigration since 1988, however, the bulk of the immigration was before 1990 in that parish.

In general the number of families grew, but not significantly in relation to the number of active participants. After about 3 or 4 yours into my stay at the parish, a new Vietnamese priest joined and then I noticed things picked up quite a bit. He regularly visited the already existing groups to give them encouragement, blessings, and short prayer sessions. His homily’s stuck closely to the Gospel and Readings as it always did, but he had a knack of connecting that back with the family unit. This encourage people to go to Church as a family. After this he emphasized registration and while families who did not know about registration went to the tables to register, people from the various groups were there as witnesses of active participation. They did not need to have booths as in a fair, but they had banners, their group attire, and lapel pins to greet those who are registering. During the announcements he regularly talked about the individual families, and parish family. This encourage parents and kids to be active within the community. So while we did get many new members, we really got most of our active participants from fallen away, inactive, and catechized Catholics.

While the priest was a big help, he was definitely not the only one. There are a great deal of community structure to offer him as a new priest. We have parish meetings every week where the leaders of non-prayer only groups meet and discussed budget and planning. There is a parish board like other parishes I see here in San Francisco, but the representatives of all the group came together and met. These meetings were separate from administrative meetings belonging to each group. While very active the parish is still quite poor with the average donation being 70 cents per person per week at the time when I was a rep attending the board meetings. This meant that we had to be frugal and offered every group an opportunity to present their urgent needs. The meetings also offer opportunities for prayers to the parish and group. And lastly the meetings helps the parish know which leaders are poor fits and which groups are struggling as well as which ones doing well and how they did so.

All this structure, prayer, and blessings were supportive and worked around the schedules of the adoration with benediction and reconciliation. There were no time conflicts with those individual days and groups were encourage to be active in those activities as a unit as well as individuals. There were time conflicts between the groups, such as Legion of Mary Youth prayer group hours were the same as the Legion of Mary Adult and Senior. Their was a mother only group that cooked and prayed for the other groups, particularly the youth group that met in the member homes. There were a large alter server group with over 100 boys when I administered it where the members are encouraged to also be in the Vietnamese Scouts, attend CCD or Catholic school, and introduced to older groups as they age. These are the day to day of the groups and how they kept a sense of we are one community together.

Once again the anchor is that we all were emphasized on Christ in the Eucharist and the opportunities to have private as well as communal confessions. During Lent, we have at least two communal confession with about 12 priests at the small parish. One year near the end of the term by that particular Vietnamese priest mentioned, Mai Khai Hoang, we had 18 priests. It was really great to see half of the pews filled up and have so much time with the priests after the group prayers. How we got that many priest was due to borrowing priests from other parishes. In exchange our priests would go to theres to support any communal confessions as well. We often had visiting priests from other parishes at Mass as well. In addition to the two large communial confessions there were the weekday confessions as well as the bonus confessions on Holy Saturday. (I think I got the date right). That day we did the Marian Stations of the Cross (I’m not sure if that is the correct name.) And we have a very large reenactment of the Passion of Christ with Statues and a life size Christ to be cruxified and taken down. This was for the whole family but mostly elders attended. I served here as well and it was very moving. And we had medications over the Passion. This really nets in all the people who missed the previous communal confessions into the morning confessions on Holy Saturday. Oh yeah, we had a lot of very old and kind retired priests to come do these confessions. They were comforting to be with.

Okay, enough of me talking about a Church I attended during my youth. While I do feel nostalgic, my descriptions are very accurate at the time span. There was a slight hit to participation when one priest came by and began shutting down some of the activities. He was orthodox and conservative at the same time. He took out activities that I believe are permitted but not what he wanted to happen. He also gave us a directive to add in female alterservers which was not an issue with previous priests. This was nice in that we had the cutest 9-12 year old girls join us. The down side was the group had to be reduced to only 40 according to the priest’s directive and so older kids like myself and many of the leaders that took us to retreats had to resign. He was a great priest but there were changes still.

Sorry I have to go and sorry if I this info is not helpful or derailing the tread.

In addition to the bac

 

[benedictgal]

I would like to hear practical examples from people here where greater use of “Reconciliation and Adoration/Benediction of the Eucharist” were the two main elements in increasing Mass attendance and growing a parish?

I’m curious as to why I see on EWTN and here that adoration is often upheld as being a primary way to grow a parish and vocations yet I rarely hear (for example) the exhortation to celebrate more Masses in a given parish?

First of all, we need to ask ourselves, why do we go to church in the first place? Is it because we want some sort of social activity? The Rotary, Lions, Scouts and a plethora of groups have that. It is because we want to make new friends? We have work, school, kids’ after school activities where we can find them and make them.

Is is it because we yearn to spend time with God? Bingo, that is the answer right there. We don’t go to Mass to hook up with the friends, socialize and eat the donuts. We go because we (I hope) want to be in the presence of God, in all of his Majesty and glory and to join the unseen cloud of witnesses in offering Him the acceptable Sacrifice. We are there because God, for His part, yearns to see us.

Bull, it all boils down to the question that Jesus asked the 12 in the Gospel two weeks ago: “Who do you say that I am?” Or, to paraphrase: “why do you come to church?”

 

[Bull]

I started in this parish when I was 5 and slept in Church most of the time as a child next to my father. Not my whole family was able to come to the States at this time. So my recollection as a child may not be as detailed as above. I do remember there being a great deal less groups, and the pews had enough space for a child like myself. There were some more immigration since 1988, however, the bulk of the immigration was before 1990 in that parish.

In general the number of families grew, but not significantly in relation to the number of active participants. After about 3 or 4 yours into my stay at the parish, a new Vietnamese priest joined and then I noticed things picked up quite a bit. He regularly visited the already existing groups to give them encouragement, blessings, and short prayer sessions. His homily’s stuck closely to the Gospel and Readings as it always did, but he had a knack of connecting that back with the family unit. This encourage people to go to Church as a family. After this he emphasized registration and while families who did not know about registration went to the tables to register, people from the various groups were there as witnesses of active participation. They did not need to have booths as in a fair, but they had banners, their group attire, and lapel pins to greet those who are registering. During the announcements he regularly talked about the individual families, and parish family. This encourage parents and kids to be active within the community. So while we did get many new members, we really got most of our active participants from fallen away, inactive, and catechized Catholics.

While the priest was a big help, he was definitely not the only one. There are a great deal of community structure to offer him as a new priest. We have parish meetings every week where the leaders of non-prayer only groups meet and discussed budget and planning. There is a parish board like other parishes I see here in San Francisco, but the representatives of all the group came together and met. These meetings were separate from administrative meetings belonging to each group. While very active the parish is still quite poor with the average donation being 70 cents per person per week at the time when I was a rep attending the board meetings. This meant that we had to be frugal and offered every group an opportunity to present their urgent needs. The meetings also offer opportunities for prayers to the parish and group. And lastly the meetings helps the parish know which leaders are poor fits and which groups are struggling as well as which ones doing well and how they did so.

All this structure, prayer, and blessings were supportive and worked around the schedules of the adoration with benediction and reconciliation. There were no time conflicts with those individual days and groups were encourage to be active in those activities as a unit as well as individuals. There were time conflicts between the groups, such as Legion of Mary Youth prayer group hours were the same as the Legion of Mary Adult and Senior. Their was a mother only group that cooked and prayed for the other groups, particularly the youth group that met in the member homes. There were a large alter server group with over 100 boys when I administered it where the members are encouraged to also be in the Vietnamese Scouts, attend CCD or Catholic school, and introduced to older groups as they age. These are the day to day of the groups and how they kept a sense of we are one community together.

Once again the anchor is that we all were emphasized on Christ in the Eucharist and the opportunities to have private as well as communal confessions. During Lent, we have at least two communal confession with about 12 priests at the small parish. One year near the end of the term by that particular Vietnamese priest mentioned, Mai Khai Hoang, we had 18 priests. It was really great to see half of the pews filled up and have so much time with the priests after the group prayers. How we got that many priest was due to borrowing priests from other parishes. In exchange our priests would go to theres to support any communal confessions as well. We often had visiting priests from other parishes at Mass as well. In addition to the two large communial confessions there were the weekday confessions as well as the bonus confessions on Holy Saturday. (I think I got the date right). That day we did the Marian Stations of the Cross (I’m not sure if that is the correct name.) And we have a very large reenactment of the Passion of Christ with Statues and a life size Christ to be cruxified and taken down. This was for the whole family but mostly elders attended. I served here as well and it was very moving. And we had medications over the Passion. This really nets in all the people who missed the previous communal confessions into the morning confessions on Holy Saturday. Oh yeah, we had a lot of very old and kind retired priests to come do these confessions. They were comforting to be with.

Okay, enough of me talking about a Church I attended during my youth. While I do feel nostalgic, my descriptions are very accurate at the time span. There was a slight hit to participation when one priest came by and began shutting down some of the activities. He was orthodox and conservative at the same time. He took out activities that I believe are permitted but not what he wanted to happen. He also gave us a directive to add in female alterservers which was not an issue with previous priests. This was nice in that we had the cutest 9-12 year old girls join us. The down side was the group had to be reduced to only 40 according to the priest’s directive and so older kids like myself and many of the leaders that took us to retreats had to resign. He was a great priest but there were changes still.

Sorry I have to go and sorry if I this info is not helpful or derailing the tread.

In addition to the bac

I appreciate the information. I’m just curious about the impact of those programs on growing your parish. Many Catholics I run into don’t seem to have a clue as how to grow a parish. I think most would be confused even by the question – why grow a parish, it’s never been an issue before?

A handful would immediately suggest eucharistic adoration because that’s likely what they heard on EWTN yet I have never come across a parish here locally that showed steady growth after implementing perpetual eucharistic adoration.

I think evangelization is very hard, on-going work. I don’t think it’s ever been a big part of being a Catholic in the USA so it foreign to most of us.

 

[Bull]

First of all, we need to ask ourselves, why do we go to church in the first place? Is it because we want some sort of social activity? The Rotary, Lions, Scouts and a plethora of groups have that. It is because we want to make new friends? We have work, school, kids’ after school activities where we can find them and make them.

That’s a fallacious comparison to say the least. Obviously the primary reason most Catholics “go to church” is to satisfy their weekly obligation to attend the Mass. Sadly if it’s limited to that it often become mechanized and minimalist and worst of all people slowly stop attending. Fellowship and evangelization is NOT the Eucharist (and no it’s obviously not nearly as important) but it’s an extremely important part of being a Catholic.

Is is it because we yearn to spend time with God? Bingo, that is the answer right there. We don’t go to Mass to hook up with the friends, socialize and eat the donuts. We go because we (I hope) want to be in the presence of God, in all of his Majesty and glory and to join the unseen cloud of witnesses in offering Him the acceptable Sacrifice. We are there because God, for His part, yearns to see us.

You’re trying to set-up a zero sum game (either we go to Mass --OR-- we go for fellowship) and that’s just silly yet it’s a common excuse for not having any fellowship. We can and should do both. While the Eucharist is clearly paramount (yes by a long way) its gift should not be used as an excuse to ignore fellowship and that’s exactly what you are doing.

Bull, it all boils down to the question that Jesus asked the 12 in the Gospel two weeks ago: “Who do you say that I am?” Or, to paraphrase: “why do you come to church?”

No it does not. See above.

I’m visited too many dying parishes where the (remaining) parishioners lock-step to Mass every Sunday (may God bless them) and that’s it. While having the Church in one’s life 45 minutes/week is certainly better than not having it at all, it could be a whole lot better.

I cannot think of a better setting than one’s parish in which to hang with the friends, socialize and eat the donuts. And no, it need not come at the expense of the Mass. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[benedictgal]

That’s a fallacious comparison to say the least. Obviously the primary reason most Catholics “go to church” is to satisfy their weekly obligation to attend the Mass. Sadly if it’s limited to that it often become mechanized and minimalist and worst of all people slowly stop attending. Fellowship and evangelization is NOT the Eucharist (and no it’s obviously not nearly as important) but it’s an extremely important part of being a Catholic.

You’re trying to set-up a zero sum game (either we go to Mass --OR-- we go for fellowship) and that’s just silly yet it’s a common excuse for not having any fellowship. We can and should do both. While the Eucharist is clearly paramount (yes by a long way) its gift should not be used as an excuse to ignore fellowship and that’s exactly what you are doing.

No it does not. See above.

I’m visited too many dying parishes where the (remaining) parishioners lock-step to Mass every Sunday (may God bless them) and that’s it. While having the Church in one’s life 45 minutes/week is certainly better than not having it at all, it could be a whole lot better.

I cannot think of a better setting than one’s parish in which to hang with the friends, socialize and eat the donuts. And no, it need not come at the expense of the Mass. Quite the opposite in fact.

Actually, it is not a fallacious argument. In my brief time on this planet, I have lived in about three different cities, including my own hometown. I have seen things go from one extreme to the other. A lot of folks have great extracurricular activities for the parish, but, lousy liturgies. I have seen parishes with not very many activities, but, fantastic liturgies that are full.

I have even been to Mass at the colonias (unincorporated areas of my county with no running water) that have zilch as far as social activities, and the liturgies are full. The people are prayerful.

My parochial vicar touched on these aspects yesterday during his homily, carrying on the theme from the previous Sunday. He told us that when we come in the pews and chat with our neighbors, we don’t realize that we are in the presence of God. The social stuff is important, but, we need to figure out why we are there in the first place.

Incidentally, in his book, Seeking the Face of God, the former Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, writes that the word “parish” is Greek in origin and it means a community of foreigners. That is actually what we are, since our true homeland is in heaven.

I still maintain that when we put the Liturgy first, (the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, Benediction, the Sacraments), then we will see a growth. It’s not some sort of a silver bullet. Remember, even the mustard seed takes time to grow.

 

[Bull]

Actually, it is not a fallacious argument. In my brief time on this planet, I have lived in about three different cities, including my own hometown. I have seen things go from one extreme to the other. A lot of folks have great extracurricular activities for the parish, but, lousy liturgies. I have seen parishes with not very many activities, but, fantastic liturgies that are full.

I have even been to Mass at the colonias (unincorporated areas of my county with no running water) that have zilch as far as social activities, and the liturgies are full. The people are prayerful.

My parochial vicar touched on these aspects yesterday during his homily, carrying on the theme from the previous Sunday. He told us that when we come in the pews and chat with our neighbors, we don’t realize that we are in the presence of God. The social stuff is important, but, we need to figure out why we are there in the first place.

Incidentally, in his book, Seeking the Face of God, the former Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, writes that the word “parish” is Greek in origin and it means a community of foreigners. That is actually what we are, since our true homeland is in heaven.

I still maintain that when we put the Liturgy first, (the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, Benediction, the Sacraments), then we will see a growth. It’s not some sort of a silver bullet. Remember, even the mustard seed takes time to grow.

It’s terribly fallaciouis. You’re suggesting that fellowship and evangelization need necessarily come at the expense of the sacrificial liturgy and you couldn’t be more wrong.

You are also inferring that because I have mentioned fellowship and evangelization that somehow I am placing it ahead of the sacrament of the Church. While not an uncommon assertion it’s not correct and it’s fairly insulting.

Please talk before Mass largely because they crave fellowship and so many churches have such few opportunities for fellowship (before OR after Mass) and because it’s allowed.

Sadly the great gift of the Sacrament of the Eucharist is often used as an excuse to do nothing more. God did not intend that. God exhorts us to evangelize and engage in fellowship

 

[benedictgal]

It’s terribly fallaciouis. You’re suggesting that fellowship and evangelization need necessarily come at the expense of the sacrificial liturgy and you couldn’t be more wrong.

You are also inferring that because I have mentioned fellowship and evangelization that somehow I am placing it ahead of the sacrament of the Church. While not an uncommon assertion it’s not correct and it’s fairly insulting.

Please talk before Mass largely because they crave fellowship and so many churches have such few opportunities for fellowship (before OR after Mass) and because it’s allowed.

Sadly the great gift of the Sacrament of the Eucharist is often used as an excuse to do nothing more. God did not intend that. God exhorts us to evangelize and engage in fellowship

The first of the two great commandments is love God. The second one is to love your neighbor as yourself. If you botch the first one, then, you really can’t adequately do the second one.

I have not inferred that you are placing one above the other, but, in your references to ETWN, you seem to downplay it. You remind me of another poster who seemed to downplay a lot of what EWTN notes.

Furthermore, when we place first and foremost priority on the manner in which the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the Sacraments are celebrated, I can assure you that everything else will fall into place. Evangelization also comes forth through the Mass. Remember, “Ite Missa est” means go forth. How can you go forth and evanglize if you have not yet first been touched by the Mass?

 

[Cat]

When it comes to attracting people to Christ, the question isn’t, “Why do people come to church?”

The question is, “Why don’t people come to church?”

We can’t expect people who don’t come to Church to think the same way we do. We have to get inside their heads and think the way they do, and then respond, within the limits of rubrics and propriety, with action plans that will appeal to them.

Baby steps! Most people do not come to church because they want to meet the Living Lord Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. Most people who don’t come to church wouldn’t know what that means!

Most people initially come to church for some kind of social reason. A friend invites them. Their boyfriend/girlfriend insists upon their coming to church. The music is good. They’re looking for an hour of peace and quiet, or an hour of praise and joy. There’s a potluck afterwards.

We shouldn’t criticize these reasons. BABY STEPS. People have to start somewhere. They have to walk in the door. The Bible says, “Precept upon precept.” You don’t teach a baby to talk by quoting Shakespeare at him/her! You start one word at a time, usually something familiar like “Mama” or “Daddy.” It’s all precept upon precept.

I see nothing wrong with making church more “user-friendly” to first-time drop-ins. That doesn’t mean messing with the liturgy. But it could mean having a concert after Mass, or some kind of class, or definitely refreshments.

Earlier a poster wrote that they dislike the “greeters.” I think this is not the normal reaction. Yes, we all dislike in-your-face “salespeople” who smile all over their face and who sound fake and who get too close to you and “touch” you. Eugh. But most people like to have a warm greeting or at least a hospitable smile from a real human being. I would say to train the greeters to be warm and helpful, but not effusive.

Another alternative to greeters is a Visitor’s Table, with tracts and pamphlets about the parish and about Catholicism, and a real person or two behind the table ready to answer questions and give directions (bathroom, fellowship hall, etc.). This allows the person to decide if they want to talk to anyone, or just be quiet.

What we all have to do is put ourselves in the shoes of the visitors and ask “What can WE do to welcome them and let them know that we care?” Just because WE like peace and quiet and being alone when we come into a church doesn’t mean that others, especially visitors, feel the same way. We have to think about others, not ourselves.

 

[Tepeyac]

I don’t think the “smells & bells” are a product of being more serious. While I personally like them I do not like the severity (something altogether different) that often accompanies them.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I’m not saying “smells & bells” are product of being more serious. I’m not saying “smells & bells” are the same as being serious. I’m saying you have to take everything you do at the parish seriously, the way you would with any important task whether it’s your job or it’s a hobby that you’re passionate about. In the case of Mass whether you have music or no music, guitar or organ, it’s important to do things carefully and with devotion. That shows people that what you’re doing is important.

My observation is that the great majority of my parish was all for the efforts and changes that were made. That great majority shifted gears once they were pressed (they had been asked to be involved from the beginning) a bit to get involved and shoulder some of the responsibility.

It was only when we began to hear ridiculous comments that promoting the parish was demeaning, that we weren’t going to attract anyone anyway because Catholicism is “too hard”, that most people are divorced and will not attend Mass and that ultimately we cannot compete with the music/feel-good atmosphere of other groups that my opinion of these people changed. Those were nothing but excuses.

I think Catholic parishes are a little different from other churches because we get all sorts of people, for many of them being Catholic is part of their heritage and our Church doesn’t ask for much of people from day to day. I think that’s actually a good thing. I feel in other churches you’re starting with a group of poeple who are motivated to begin with and it makes it a lot easier to get things done with more people involved.

But what you describe really isn’t all that different from any other organization. At work, in school clubs, etc, there’s always a core group of motivated members that often do a lot or most of the work. That this happens in a regular parish isn’t surprising.

They are simply not willing to make the effort in terms of their time, talent and treasure required to increase Mass attendance and grow the parish. My question here was “why” and some people have provided a bit of insight.

I still think you should be very careful about how you view other parishioners as a result of this. There are often very good reasons why people can’t get involved. Maybe a survey of parishioners that asks “what’s keeping you from becoming more involved?” is in order.

Besides, just because your calling is to work for parish growth does not mean that everyone else’s calling is the same. Maybe someone’s calling is for prayer and adoration. Maybe someone’s else’s calling is to teach First Communion classes. Maybe someone else’s calling is to sweep the church steps. Maybe you’re a hand in the Body of Christ but other people need to be the ears, eyes, or feet.

This has actually been a good experience for me. I now know what it takes to increase Mass attendance and grow a parish and I’m slowly learning why some people/parishes will do what it takes and some will not.

If my parish does not grow and I have to face the bishop along with the pastor and others, I will be very much at ease.

I hope that whatever you learn on the thread or in you parish you can share it hear so that it leads to useful discussion.

 

[StillWondering]

It’s terribly fallaciouis. You’re suggesting that fellowship and evangelization need necessarily come at the expense of the sacrificial liturgy and you couldn’t be more wrong.

You are also inferring that because I have mentioned fellowship and evangelization that somehow I am placing it ahead of the sacrament of the Church. While not an uncommon assertion it’s not correct and it’s fairly insulting.

Please talk before Mass largely because they crave fellowship and so many churches have such few opportunities for fellowship (before OR after Mass) and because it’s allowed.

Sadly the great gift of the Sacrament of the Eucharist is often used as an excuse to do nothing more. God did not intend that. God exhorts us to evangelize and engage in fellowship

This is how I see it. The fellowship that arises from going to Mass flows form the Blessed Sacrament and Christ’s teachings. The parish I mentioned before do have time for people to chat and get to know each other. Those are done outside of the naive and in the invidual group meetings. The parish do have social activies, for youth it involves, retreats, scouts, prayer sessions, and field trips. Those are done after opening prayers outside of the naive as well, particularly at the local park for routine activities and a bus trip away for more expensive and exotic activities.

The old example of the cart before the horse. The horse that drives a parish is the Mass which is where we see the Blessed Sacrament. That’s the only thing that is different between going to church versus going to the supermarket, Jet’s game, or to violin practices. You can pray at the other activities too, but Christ is the most fully present this side of Heaven. Then after that all the fellowship, community support, friendships, relationships, dating, growing old together, or chatting fits into the cart.

If you only move with the horse and do not attach the cart then you have a very light load. Works for a few, but a horse by itself can only carry so much. Not everyone can be carried by the horse. Now the cart has more room but requires the horse to power it. So parishes that do exceedingly well have the cart and horse going in step. If you want a larger cart, focus more on the horse so there’s enough power to pull that cart. If you focus on the cart only and not support the horse, you are stuck standing.

Yeah, it is not one or the other. It is both on connection. But one has long lasting power and that needs to be steady before looking at the other. If that is steady already then great. When I first join here, I said “before anything”. If Adoration with Benediction and Reconciliation is already emphasized then great. I just conclude that they need to be emphasized first. Then the next steps come afterward.

 

[StillWondering]

I appreciate the information. I’m just curious about the impact of those programs on growing your parish. Many Catholics I run into don’t seem to have a clue as how to grow a parish. I think most would be confused even by the question – why grow a parish, it’s never been an issue before?

A handful would immediately suggest eucharistic adoration because that’s likely what they heard on EWTN yet I have never come across a parish here locally that showed steady growth after implementing perpetual eucharistic adoration.

I think evangelization is very hard, on-going work. I don’t think it’s ever been a big part of being a Catholic in the USA so it foreign to most of us.

The parish mostly grew in strength as opposed to registered members (though a lot of families began registering officially from this). The pews filled up overtime with lapsing Catholics. this fulfills your bishop’s call for parish growth and more parishioners to support the parishes and encourage fellowship.

It’s like how Christ would spend all that time to seek out the one lost sheep. Each parish has plenty of lost sheep. We choose to heal and bring them home before worrying numbers from the outside. This did slowly brought in outside members who were friends with the returning Catholics.

 

[rochejaune]

Has anybody considered that half of marriages end up in divorce and the Catholic church doesn’t exactly make divorced people very welcome at Mass? There’s a lot of people who simply don’t go back to church after they are divorced. I know many people who have left our church and now attend other churches that are more welcoming. Just a thought.

 

[StillWondering]

Has anybody considered that half of marriages end up in divorce and the Catholic church doesn’t exactly make divorced people very welcome at Mass? There’s a lot of people who simply don’t go back to church after they are divorced. I know many people who have left our church and now attend other churches that are more welcoming. Just a thought.

I think it is part of the Catholic way of life to welcome people, no matter their suffering, wealth, or state of sin if they wish healing through the Church. However, while I do not know how others are treated, those in sin and are not suffering from mental disorders or extreme stress need to remember to go to confession with a repentant heart before being able to fully participate in the sacraments. This is why I promote Reconciliation so much. This is such a wonderful give from Christ I would imagine I could not be fully Catholic without it. We commit vinial sins all the time, which is why regular prayer is so important. To clean ourselves up, change our hearts, and plea for God’s graces. And on top of this, we commit a great deal of mortal sins. While living here in San Francisco, it was imperative that I found a Catholic church that has priests who can offer appointments for reconciliation as well as weekly confessions. I do not intend to sin all the time; in fact, I am not allowed to have such intentions if I understand the sin of presumption correctly. What the regular confessions offer is a chance for me to grow in my faith. We are all called to be saints after all. And nearly all of us, this process to becoming a saint requires repenting and repenting often.

Many who choose not to repent or go to reconciliation and then go to other communities that allows for non Catholic teachings (such as contraceptive, the solubility of marriage, abortion, or faulty and selfish social justice) are doing so by their own choice. We are ultimately responsible for our own intentions and our final judgment will be Christ. Of course we all have the responsibility to help each other go to heaven and evangelist to give others a path as well as guidance for such a journey. However, we cannot walk the journey for them. Which is why I am re-emphasizing that Adoration with Benediction and Reconciliation needs to be well supported before substantial revitalization and growth can happen.

This does not mean neglect social time, social groups, having a wider selection of liturgy’s and music that is appropriate, nor ignoring the call for movie nights, the call for consoling, or any such important pastoral activities. However, neglecting Adoration and especially Reconciliation or even not providing enough can drastically harm a community a great deal more than the lack of funding and depth of pastoral care through social involvement over the long term. Over a short term, social involvement will probably provide more for your time. But we are not a Church meant for 3-7 years of attendance. This is for fathers, mothers, their children, and grandchildren. The Catholic Church is meant to provide for generations after generations of families. Social activities change over time, but not Christ’s sacraments.

 

[jmcrae]

Has anybody considered that half of marriages end up in divorce and the Catholic church doesn’t exactly make divorced people very welcome at Mass? There’s a lot of people who simply don’t go back to church after they are divorced. I know many people who have left our church and now attend other churches that are more welcoming. Just a thought.

Anyone can come to Mass. Divorced people, as long as they don’t remarry, can go to Confession and receive Holy Communion just like the rest of us sinners.

Remarriage is a whole other ball game, of course, and people need to be extra careful to ensure that they receive (not merely apply for) their Declaration of Nullity before getting back into the dating scene. Hopefully someone going through a divorce would be getting counseling from their priest, and would be receiving this information at the appropriate time.

 

[EasterJoy]

Has anybody considered that half of marriages end up in divorce and the Catholic church doesn’t exactly make divorced people very welcome at Mass? There’s a lot of people who simply don’t go back to church after they are divorced. I know many people who have left our church and now attend other churches that are more welcoming. Just a thought.

Divorced people can come to Mass, and if they haven’t re-married, they can come to Holy Communion.

It is possible, too, that people leave the Church for the some of the same reasons that they leave their spouses…that is, I wouldn’t be too sure if I were the “welcoming church” that all those folks will still be there when we get a new pastor who isn’t quite so charimatic, or the music director is replaced, etc. In other words, I don’t think the Church is always to blame for those who leave her, any more than the jilted spouse is to blame when her husband leaves her for someone younger and flashier, and with the time to hang on his every word. It is not as if people are flocking off to some other one great church and staying there. Some are flitting around like they’re in the faith equivalent of a singles bar. That’s a thought, too.

But you are right about this: the parishes with up-front ministeries aimed at divorced Catholics are doing an excellent and much-needed thing. When the marriage you were sure would last for ever doesn’t, the comfort of knowing that you aren’t rejected by the Church needs to come from the Church. Divorced people are vulnerable and hurting, and they need to have someone reach out to them. They need someone who will bend over backwards not to judge them or nose into what isn’t anyone else’s business. Some marriages end out of faithlessness, but a lot don’t, and even those who do have victims that need healing left afterward, and I mean parties both guilty and innocent…because we’re all guilty parties, in some way.

 

[Malkin71]

When it comes to attracting people to Christ, the question isn’t, “Why do people come to church?”

The question is, “Why don’t people come to church?”

We can’t expect people who don’t come to Church to think the same way we do. We have to get inside their heads and think the way they do, and then respond, within the limits of rubrics and propriety, with action plans that will appeal to them.

Baby steps! Most people do not come to church because they want to meet the Living Lord Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. Most people who don’t come to church wouldn’t know what that means!

Most people initially come to church for some kind of social reason. A friend invites them. Their boyfriend/girlfriend insists upon their coming to church. The music is good. They’re looking for an hour of peace and quiet, or an hour of praise and joy. There’s a potluck afterwards.

We shouldn’t criticize these reasons. BABY STEPS. People have to start somewhere. They have to walk in the door. The Bible says, “Precept upon precept.” You don’t teach a baby to talk by quoting Shakespeare at him/her! You start one word at a time, usually something familiar like “Mama” or “Daddy.” It’s all precept upon precept.

I see nothing wrong with making church more “user-friendly” to first-time drop-ins. That doesn’t mean messing with the liturgy. But it could mean having a concert after Mass, or some kind of class, or definitely refreshments.

Earlier a poster wrote that they dislike the “greeters.” I think this is not the normal reaction. Yes, we all dislike in-your-face “salespeople” who smile all over their face and who sound fake and who get too close to you and “touch” you. Eugh. But most people like to have a warm greeting or at least a hospitable smile from a real human being. I would say to train the greeters to be warm and helpful, but not effusive.

Another alternative to greeters is a Visitor’s Table, with tracts and pamphlets about the parish and about Catholicism, and a real person or two behind the table ready to answer questions and give directions (bathroom, fellowship hall, etc.). This allows the person to decide if they want to talk to anyone, or just be quiet.

What we all have to do is put ourselves in the shoes of the visitors and ask “What can WE do to welcome them and let them know that we care?” Just because WE like peace and quiet and being alone when we come into a church doesn’t mean that others, especially visitors, feel the same way. We have to think about others, not ourselves.

In the back of our Church we have a “Magazine Rack” were prayer cards, religious magazine are kept. I bring in and place there all the religious, phamplets, cards, catalogs, Rosarys, medals, etc. I receive in the mail from various religious organizations. I do this to share information about the church that people do not know, eg. Information about shelters for women who suffer from domestic abuse, "Sever Sources Shelters, a organization that helps mothers save their babies from abortion. Religious catalogs so that people can find information about the church and purchase religious artwork, medals and Crucifixes. Also prayer cards with prayers to the Saints.

I feel good when I see people picking up the information about it.

I disagree with your last sentence . When going into a church silence is the norm. You are walking into the House of God. People are trying to pray. Have respect for them. We say the Rosary before Mass in our Parish. It has a great effect on the chatter before Mass. If someone is chattering or talking before Mass or during Holy Communion I will go over to them and ask them to be quiet.

 

[Malkin71]

Divorced people can come to Mass, and if they haven’t re-married, they can come to Holy Communion.

It is possible, too, that people leave the Church for the some of the same reasons that they leave their spouses…that is, I wouldn’t be too sure if I were the “welcoming church” that all those folks will still be there when we get a new pastor who isn’t quite so charimatic, or the music director is replaced, etc. In other words, I don’t think the Church is always to blame for those who leave her, any more than the jilted spouse is to blame when her husband leaves her for someone younger and flashier, and with the time to hang on his every word. It is not as if people are flocking off to some other one great church and staying there. Some are flitting around like they’re in the faith equivalent of a singles bar. That’s a thought, too.

But you are right about this: the parishes with up-front ministeries aimed at divorced Catholics are doing an excellent and much-needed thing. When the marriage you were sure would last for ever doesn’t, the comfort of knowing that you aren’t rejected by the Church needs to come from the Church. Divorced people are vulnerable and hurting, and they need to have someone reach out to them. They need someone who will bend over backwards not to judge them or nose into what isn’t anyone else’s business. Some marriages end out of faithlessness, but a lot don’t, and even those who do have victims that need healing left afterward, and I mean parties both guilty and innocent…because we’re all guilty parties, in some way.

I do believe it is up to the Priest to decide if someone is divorced should receive Holy Communion. That is if they do not have an Annulment. It is simular to receiving Holy Communion. You must be in a state of Grace to receive Holy Communion. If not, you must refrain from receiving it.