How to intercept an abortion---confidentiality issue

[Rence]

Gossip is a sin. When we gossip we need to confess it. There is no need to confess the sin of gossip in this situation, “I told a friend that an acquaintance was scheduled for an abortion at my work. My friend prayed with me for this woman and child.” That statement is not gossip. It is not the sin of gossip.

I don’t know if anyone else mentioned “sin” or “confession” in this thread, however, I did not. I, OTOH, suggested she not participate in this nonsense again.

A breach of confidentiality and the sin of gossip are not the same. In this case, it seems the friend would want to find out if the hospital she works considers “an acquaintance” as a breach of confidentiality. If so, she would want to refrain from using “an acquaintance” in any way connected with that hospital.

What are you talking about?? I never mentioned “sin”. However, I did say that she needs to not participate in this nonsense because she is putting her job at risk, and being unethical.

So, the friend asks if her hospital has a policy that considers “an acquaintance was scheduled for a procedure.” as a breech of confidentiality.

The OP already knows that confidentiality was breached, as suggested in the OP’s title and in the OP’s thread. Though a few people might have some problems understanding the confidentially issue in this thread, the OP is not one of them. She just wants to know what to do about it now that she knows about it; and the answer is the same: nothing.

 

[Rence]

So, you think if a person asks for clarification at their place of work, they must also list everything they may have possibly done wrong?

Are there any other jobs, if one has made a mistake, misunderstood a policy, broken a rule while under distress, etc. that employees should be in line to admit all of these issues to their boss?

They already broke privacy laws, one more culpable than the other, and they both had to have signed such an agreement in order to work in a hospital. It’s required. Not many jobs are this strict, but the healthcare industry is different.
RoseMary131;11115968:

Maybe we don’t really think she and all workers everywhere need to stand in line at the work place to admit all our mistakes, failures, lapses of judgement.

Who is “we”? I agree with the laws and am thankful for them. Who knows when an ‘acquaintance’ of mine sees my name on a roster in a hospital and calls up their friend to talk about me.

If OP’s friend did something wrong, and her place of work does not allow one to say, "Today, an acquaintance of mine came to my work place to possibly have an abortion. I was very distressed and called my Dear Friend to pray with me.

I hope she’s smart enough not to do that because the friend who called her will get fired, and she might get fired too. The last thing the risk manager of a hospital wants to hear is that employees are calling each other and discussing patients inappropriately, and opening up the hospital to lawsuits and fines.
.

Maybe we can help her in a kind and gentle way.

Maybe we’re trying and meeting a whole lot of unnecessary resistance
Bottom line: DON’T talk about patients. They have a right to their privacy and the law will ensure it is respected.

Maybe we can be a little kinder on those who work in the medical community when they slip up and say “acquaintance is schedule for an abortion at my hospital.”

If one really has a hard time keeping patient information to themselves, they don’t need to be working in a healthcare setting. At all.

 

[RoseMary131]

I don’t know if anyone else mentioned “sin” or “confession” in this thread, however, I did not. I, OTOH, suggested she not participate in this nonsense again.

What are you talking about?? I never mentioned “sin”. However, I did say that she needs to not participate in this nonsense because she is putting her job at risk, and being unethical.

Some people on this thread have stated that the OP’s friend gossiped.

Gossip is a sin.

People on the thread brought up “gossip.” I mentioned gossip is a sin. I mentioned gossip is confessed in the Sacrament of Confession.

I mentioned what the OP’s friend said did not fall under “gossip” or “to gossip”.

Since several people spoke of the OP’s friend with the word “gossip”, I wanted to express why I thought she had not gossip, why I thought she had not committed the sin of gossip.

The OP already knows that confidentiality was breached, as suggested in the OP’s title and in the OP’s thread. Though a few people might have some problems understanding the confidentially issue in this thread, the OP is not one of them. She just wants to know what to do about it now that she knows about it; and the answer is the same: nothing.

**Confidentiality is a big thing to breach; does one breach it in this instance? ** :bighanky:

Actually, if you look at the title of the thread you will see it is an issue on confidentiality. If you read in her post, you will see the OP wants to know if it is possible to breach confidentiality. You will notice it is a Question to her if confidentiality can be breached.

So, we see that at the point of the original post, the OP does not feel like her friend has breach confidentiality. Maybe she and her friend both feel at this point that there is no breach of confidentiality because her friend has only described the person as “an acquaintance.”

Some people voicing here on the thread, believe the friend breached confidentiality with “an acquaintance is scheduled for an abortion today”. The OP seems to believe there has been nothing wrongly said at this point.

Maybe the OP’s friend will check with the hospital to be certain on the rules for confidentiality.

 

[RoseMary131]

**They **already broke privacy laws, one more culpable than the other, and **they both had to have signed such an agreement in order to work in a hospital. **

I hope she’s smart enough not to do that because the friend who called her will get fired, and she might get fired too. The last thing the risk manager of a hospital wants to hear is that **employees **are calling each other and discussing patients inappropriately, and opening up the hospital to lawsuits and fines.

No place in the OP’s post do we read that she works in the hospital or that she works any place.

Hi, everyone. Received a distressed phone call from a friend this morning. **She works **at a hospital and totally by accident she saw the O.R. list for today and noticed that an acquaintance was booked for an abortion. Confidentiality is a big thing to breach; does one breach it in this instance? Can she seek out this woman after looking at a list that she wasn’t privy to look at? We’ve been praying hard all morning. What more can be done? :bighanky:

 

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

Some people on this thread have stated that the OP’s friend gossiped.

Gossip is a sin.

People on the thread brought up “gossip.” I mentioned gossip is a sin. I mentioned gossip is confessed in the Sacrament of Confession.

I mentioned what the OP’s friend said did not fall under “gossip” or “to gossip”.

Since several people spoke of the OP’s friend with the word “gossip”, I wanted to express why I thought she had not gossip, why I thought she had not committed the sin of gossip.

Actually, if you look at the title of the thread you will see it is an issue on confidentiality. If you read in her post, you will see the OP wants to know if it is possible to breach confidentiality. You will notice it is a Question to her if confidentiality can be breached.

So, we see that at the point of the original post, the OP does not feel like her friend has breach confidentiality. **Maybe she and her friend both feel at this point that there is no breach of confidentiality because her friend has only described the person as “an acquaintance.”
**
Some people voicing here on the thread, believe the friend breached confidentiality with “an acquaintance is scheduled for an abortion today”. The OP seems to believe there has been nothing wrongly said at this point.

Maybe the OP’s friend will check with the hospital to be certain on the rules for confidentiality.

I think what people are trying to tell you is that OP’s friend HAS breached confidentiality already, by making the phone call. OP and OP’s friend are both wrong if they think ‘there has been nothing wrongly said at this point’.

It would of course be a further and much more serious breach of confidentiality to approach the woman, but it is ALREADY a serious breach of confidentiality.

OP’s friend can check the confidentiality and privacy laws with her hospital but, if she works there, she should already know.

It’s got nothing to do with describing the patient as an acquaintance, it is the fact that she mentioned anything about it at all to someone who, legally, does not have the right to know.

 

[RoseMary131]

OP’s friend can check the confidentiality and privacy laws with her hospital

I hope her friend has taken care of this so as to know exactly what is expected at work.

Our Lady of Guadulpe ~ Patroness of the Unborn ~ Pray for us.

For all those planning abortion, soften their hearts. ~ Lord Hear Our Prayer

For all workers performing abortion, show them the way out. ~ Lord Hear Our Prayer

For all mothers, fathers, grandparents, and siblings of aborted babies, heal their hearts ~ Lord Hear Our Prayer

For all those working in hospitals where abortions are perform, give them graces to help those who suffer from illness while destruction takes place within their walls ~ Lord Hear Our Prayer

For the OP and her friend, let them feel Your comfort. ~ Lord Hear Our Prayer

For the “Acquaintance”, heal her of whatever she suffers. ~ Lord Hear Our Prayer

 

[Julian_Bashir]

The only appropriate response is to pray. Nothing more. The catechism will tell you that you can’t commit wrong to try and do right.

You are correct. But you are talking as though someone is asking if they can obtain private information beforehand. It already happened. If you come by the information, even by means one might deem inappropriate (or even illegal), not even the Church will argue you are powerless to act or intervene as you see fit if it warrants.

If you eavesdrop on a private phone conversation, something the Church does not condone, and find out that someone is planing to murder someone else, maintaining you cannot intervene because it was none of your business in nonsense and not back by any Church teaching. That is essentially what we are talking about. Laws are meaningless to Christian morality unless they are just Again, rape is acceptable in many Middle Eastern countries under Sharia Law. Does that mean it would be inappropriate to protect a woman from rape, even though a man has the legal right to rape her? Of course not.

Again, the information is already out. The question is what do you do with it? Everyone gets(as it has been repeated ad nauseum in this thread) that her job could be in jeopardy, yada yada yada. You maintain you cannot do anything. I maintain that if we truly believe abortion is murdering an innocent human being, you are not obligated to simply do nothing, unless you believe you have that same obligation if they were intent on murdering their spouse.

 

[SurlyMermaid]

My profession is in mental health care and HIPPA laws apply. This is murky water here and the friend should not have been this specific talking to the OP. Perhaps being more vague with her concerns and asking that the two friends pray together.

I’m interested if the OP could return to the thread and update us. This may not, as others have said, been an abortion, but a D&C or something.

 

[RoseMary131]

My profession is in mental health care and **HIPPA laws apply. ** This is murky water here and the friend should not have been this specific talking to the OP. Perhaps being more vague with her concerns and asking that the two friends pray together.

I’m interested if the OP could return to the thread and update us. This may not, as others have said, been an abortion, but a D&C or something.

Maybe it is best that the OP NOT share anything else with us.

Maybe it should all remain private.

Let us not ask for updates or any information, but remember to keep the patient in our prayers.

Our Lady of Guadalupe ~ Patroness of the Unborn ~ Pray for us.

 

[MaryT777]

Maybe it is best that the OP NOT share anything else with us.

Maybe it should all remain private.

Our Lady of Guadalupe ~ Patroness of the Unborn ~ Pray for us.

Yes it is best.

 

[SurlyMermaid]

Maybe it is best that the OP NOT share anything else with us.

Maybe it should all remain private.

Let us not ask for updates or any information, but remember to keep the patient in our prayers.

Our Lady of Guadalupe ~ Patroness of the Unborn ~ Pray for us.

Very true. I meant more about how she handled the situation with her friend.

 

[RoseMary131]

Very true. I meant more about how she handled the situation with her friend.

Maybe anything between the OP and her dear friend should remain private as well.

The OP’s dear friend was in distress as to the possibility the patient would have an abortion. The OP was in distress knowing her friend’s pain.

Maybe it is best that the entire interaction of the OP and her friend be private.

 

[Rence]

No place in the OP’s post do we read that she works in the hospital or that she works any place.

Then the friend who called her will be the only one in danger of losing her job.

 

[Rence]

I think what people are trying to tell you is that OP’s friend HAS breached confidentiality already, by making the phone call. OP and OP’s friend are both wrong if they think ‘there has been nothing wrongly said at this point’.

It would of course be a further and much more serious breach of confidentiality to approach the woman, but it is ALREADY a serious breach of confidentiality.

OP’s friend can check the confidentiality and privacy laws with her hospital but, if she works there, she should already know.

It’s got nothing to do with describing the patient as an acquaintance, it is the fact that she mentioned anything about it at all to someone who, legally, does not have the right to know.

Yes, all of the above. In addition, it was more of a breach to mention that the patient is an acquaintance because the OP might know her. Very unethical.

 

[Rence]

I hope her friend has taken care of this so as to know exactly what is expected at work.

If she can read, and obviously she can since she saw an “acquaintance” listed on a hospital document, then she already KNOWS she has breached confidentiality rules.

 

[Rence]

You are correct. But you are talking as though someone is asking if they can obtain private information beforehand. It already happened. If you come by the information, even by means one might deem inappropriate (or even illegal), not even the Church will argue you are powerless to act or intervene as you see fit if it warrants.

Actually, no you’re not powerless to act or intervene as it should be. The OP should have told her friend not to discuss patient information with her. Of course people can come across this information by accident. In fact, there’s a paragraph in HIPPA documents that touches on the subject of getting information by accident. The results are the same: It is to remain confidential. The OP’s friend should have NEVER discussed it with anyone, let alone call up a friend and tell her about it. That was the breach in confidentiality.

In addition, the OP’s friend should tell her supervisor how she accidentally saw this information if it was not within the scope of her job to have access to it, so that they can correct it so it doesn’t happen again.

There are a few GOOD things one can do to correct an error. Spreading confidential information is NOT one of them.

There is nothing unjust about privacy laws. They are appropriate for the healthcare industry.

Again, the information is already out. The question is what do you do with it? .

If one works in a hospital and agrees to obey the privacy laws, which is a requirement to work in any facility dealing with patient information, then you do NOTHING with the information as you agreed when you were hired. IF you can’t honor the agreement, don’t work in the healthcare field. Period. It’s really that simple. Those who break the privacy laws and get caught get fired and the facility gets fined.

 

[Rence]

Maybe it is best that the OP NOT share anything else with us.

Maybe it should all remain private.

I hope the OP learned a valuable lesson and in the future will not make the same mistake with her friend.

 

[Julian_Bashir]

Actually, no you’re not powerless to act or intervene as it should be. The OP should have told her friend not to discuss patient information with her. Of course people can come across this information by accident. In fact, there’s a paragraph in HIPPA documents that touches on the subject of getting information by accident. The results are the same: It is to remain confidential. The OP’s friend should have NEVER discussed it with anyone, let alone call up a friend and tell her about it. That was the breach in confidentiality.

In addition, the OP’s friend should tell her supervisor how she accidentally saw this information if it was not within the scope of her job to have access to it, so that they can correct it so it doesn’t happen again.

There are a few GOOD things one can do to correct an error. Spreading confidential information is NOT one of them.

There is nothing unjust about privacy laws. They are appropriate for the healthcare industry.

If one works in a hospital and agrees to obey the privacy laws, which is a requirement to work in any facility dealing with patient information, then you do NOTHING with the information as you agreed when you were hired. IF you can’t honor the agreement, don’t work in the healthcare field. Period. It’s really that simple. Those who break the privacy laws and get caught get fired and the facility gets fined.

That’s fine. I disagree, depending on the situation. Lots of laws apply. Again, you break into someone’s home, and you see them about to kill their child. I guess you simply do nothing, because breaking and entering is very serious business.

Your advice is all well and good for someone who does not already have the information. Perhaps the person will act, then quit their job as you recommend. So be it. But acting as though we can never act on information we got through illegal or questionable means is simply not true. While the Church would never advise us to act in an unethical manner, they neither advise us to do nothing with information of a critical nature gleaned through that act. That would be insanity.

If anyone here claims they would not act on information of a critical or dire nature they had gleaned through unethical or even illegal means, I have a bridge to sell you.