How to make a request to future DH without being manipulative!

[chevalier]

I don’t know what exactly is the depth of, “walking on eggshells,” but it’s not true that there’s no need for the following things in marriage:

1. Courtesy (and there are not only gentlemen, there are also ladies)
2. Consideration for the other’s feelings
3. Willingness to get out of one’s way at least a bit

There are always limits to being blunt and brutally honest. And it always matters how you say it, not only what you say. Not only the content is important, but also the form. Marriage does not excuse from this form. Marriage does not remove the need for consideration - it even increases it. And not only for the husband to consider the feelings of his wife, but also the other way round.

Basically, there’s that good old saying, “do unto others as you wish to be done unto.” That’s something not to be forgotten. I really don’t think any wife wants to be communicated with in a direct and dispassionate manner. And none of you ladies who have posted here, sorry. I just don’t see you being happy with matter-of-fact communication and especially requests coming from your actual or hypothetical husbands.

 

[kage_ar]

Kindness and commom courtesy are to be expected within a family.

It is obvious you have never known anyone who “walks on eggshells” - someone who is afraid that they will inadvertantly say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing, not do the right thing, breathe the wrong way, wear the wrong shoes - and it will upset/anger the spouse. You know those puppies who shrink back every time a hand is raised? That is what these spouses turn into.

And, yes, I am a woman married for 17+ years - and I do want honesty from my husband - he and I are both grown ups and can speak to each other honestly and openly.

 

[duskyjewel]

Polite and respectful does not equal walking on eggshells.

And chevalier, my husband and I promised each other a long time ago…no stupid games and no mind reading. Ask for what you need when you need it, ask for what you want when you want it. Just be up front and SAY IT. Know why? Because he suffered a life time of watching his mother storm around the house, obviously upset, but she wouldn’t say why or tell anyone what she wanted or needed. She expected her husband and her two boys to just somehow discern what was wrong and fix it. I was around for a few of those episodes, and they were really hard to live through. I promised I would never do that to him, and he promised never to do that to me. And we haven’t.

I am very happy with matter-of-fact communication and requests from my husband, and he is with the same from me, because at least it’s honest and it gets the job done. Much of marriage comes down to the boringly practical. There is no need to make more of it than there is.

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

I don’t know what exactly is the depth of, “walking on eggshells,” but it’s not true that there’s no need for the following things in marriage:

1. Courtesy (and there are not only gentlemen, there are also ladies)
2. Consideration for the other’s feelings
3. Willingness to get out of one’s way at least a bit

There are always limits to being blunt and brutally honest. And it always matters how you say it, not only what you say. Not only the content is important, but also the form. Marriage does not excuse from this form. Marriage does not remove the need for consideration - it even increases it. And not only for the husband to consider the feelings of his wife, but also the other way round.

Basically, there’s that good old saying, “do unto others as you wish to be done unto.” That’s something not to be forgotten. I really don’t think any wife wants to be communicated with in a direct and dispassionate manner. And none of you ladies who have posted here, sorry. I just don’t see you being happy with matter-of-fact communication and especially requests coming from your actual or hypothetical husbands.

Chevalier… you seem to have an agenda. I’m not sure what it is, but you seem to think that there’s this feminist enemy out there or whatever. Fine.

But, what we’re doing is telling the OP our impressions based on personal experience. Walking on eggshells is a sign that something is very, very wrong. The OP is trying to figure out how to talk about perfectly normal things without upsetting her fiance. That scares us. We’ve been there, done that. We know how it ends.

Yes, I like to be told things in a matter-of-fact way. All you have to do is add “please” and “thank you” and use a pleasant tone of voice.

 

[chevalier]

Chevalier… you seem to have an agenda. I’m not sure what it is, but you seem to think that there’s this feminist enemy out there or whatever. Fine.

Nope. The OP’s future husband didn’t want to paint the house and he was in between two 10-hour driving trips, tired, when asked to drive somewhere else still. The situation was making him feel manipulated into agreeing since he looked bad for refusing either time. This was made into his being abusive and perhaps not a good man for his wife to be. I have a problem with that.

Yes, I like to be told things in a matter-of-fact way. All you have to do is add “please” and “thank you” and use a pleasant tone of voice.

Well, if you assume there’s no agenda, no special coaxing, no emotional punishment for refusal, then yeah, you’re right. But that’s an ideal situation and in practice it looks different sometimes. Sometimes people ask for help and won’t wait a couple of minutes, so your manners and compassion take over and you go and help them right there and now as if they couldn’t wait. Sometimes people won’t be persuaded to let it wait for a moment or dissuaded from doing something not very reasonable and you just have to put aside your current occupation or get over your tiredness or other obstacle and do it for them. And let’s leave genders aside - men can do it to women perfectly fine as well. Similarly, if you know the other person will be hurt or offended or simply won’t understand, then you aren’t really so much at liberty to refuse. I guess I just wanted to say that sometimes requests contain emotional pressure and regardless of the gender of the person they come from. Happens to the best of us when we strongly want something.

 

[CarrieH]

But, what we’re doing is telling the OP our impressions based on personal experience. Walking on eggshells is a sign that something is very, very wrong. The OP is trying to figure out how to talk about perfectly normal things without upsetting her fiance. That scares us. We’ve been there, done that. We know how it ends.

Right on. And the ending is not pretty. A friend and coworker of mine had one of those boyfriends with whom she was always walking on eggshells. He would fly off the handle, take things the wrong way, and blame her for things which weren’t her fault. She knew in her heart this was wrong, but she would make excuses for him when we would express our concern. He went from being manipulative to controlling to abusive. She married him, mainly because she was afraid of what he would do to her if she didn’t. So two children later, she decided to leave, and he went over and shot her and her mother dead right there in the kitchen, in front of the children. It’s scary enough to read about this stuff in the papers, but when it’s someone close to you, it’s downright terrifying. This isn’t about a feminist agenda, this is about wanting a safe and satisfying partnership in marriage for ourselves and other women, and about advising others about the warning signs of a potential abuser.

 

[SeekerJen]

Nope. The OP’s future husband didn’t want to paint the house and he was in between two 10-hour driving trips, tired, when asked to drive somewhere else still. The situation was making him feel manipulated into agreeing since he looked bad for refusing either time. This was made into his being abusive and perhaps not a good man for his wife to be. I have a problem with that.

In all fairness, we don’t have the other side, but the OP indicated that she did not ask her husband to paint the house, rather she indicated that after they were married, she would like to paint the house. For him to twist that into “you’re manipulative, just like my friends’ wives, and you’re forcing me to paint the house” is, well, not an indication of a healthy reaction to what should be a fairly innocuous statement.

If the painting and the trip to the brother’s place are the only incidents, then yes, maybe things will be fine. OP, are these the only incidents, or is this what passes for normal in your relationship?

I still stand by my earlier statement that this couple needs to work out their issues NOW, rather than after the wedding. Things will only get worse after the vows, and they will be likely be compounded with a feeling of being trapped.

 

[chevalier]

In all fairness, we don’t have the other side, but the OP indicated that she did not ask her husband to paint the house, rather she indicated that after they were married, she would like to paint the house. For him to twist that into “you’re manipulative, just like my friends’ wives, and you’re forcing me to paint the house” is, well, not an indication of a healthy reaction to what should be a fairly innocuous statement.

Hey, but what is it for you to twist whatever he said into a clear, “you’re manipulative, just like my friends’ wives, and you’re forcing me to paint the house?” You’re exaggerating to make a point, he was exaggerating because of his sensibilities, what’s the difference? My point is that he’s likely a normal person like any of us, just somewhat troubled at times by things he’s sensitive about - anyone has such things.

As for the previous part, the OP didn’t say she wanted to paint the house, but most men will not sit about doing nothing when their wives are painting or otherwise working physically, especially with the technical stuff. He wasn’t being manipulated by the OP, who didn’t want him to do the painting, but he was still put in a no-win situation - either paint, which he neither feels like doing nor even wants done, or watch the woman do the painting like he isn’t a proper gent. I don’t envy him at all and I’ve been in such situations, so I know first-hand how it feels.

I think there’s a bit too much jumping on the guy in this thread. He didn’t accuse the OP of trying to dominate him or deprive him of his will. He only said it felt like she was trying to coax him into doing things he didn’t want to do. And he tried to approach the situation, talk about it calmly, and resolve it, which is basically how one should approach relationship problems. As a result, he scored a lot of condemnation without even looking more closely into the problem, while the OP was given the full benefit of the doubt. I find that improper. Let both parties be heard and if not possible, let both parties be at least considered equally and given the same benefits. Got to stay even-handed.

I still stand by my earlier statement that this couple needs to work out their issues NOW, rather than after the wedding. Things will only get worse after the vows, and they will be likely be compounded with a feeling of being trapped.

There I agree totally.

 

[dulcissima]

I think it is hard for us to know what the situation with the OP and her fiance really is. Of course, I am viewing her situation through my own particular perspective as someone who overlooked warning signs, went ahead and married, and spent my whole adult life in an abusive relationship. I would hate to see her have to go through that. I definitely do sense a big red flag, especially with the way she has gone on to excuse his behavior and retract everything she previously said. I hope that she takes a serious look at this relationship and realizes that plans can be changed.

A little more info on “walking on eggshells”…

bpd411.org/walkingoneggshells.html

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

I think it is hard for us to know what the situation with the OP and her fiance really is. Of course, I am viewing her situation through my own particular perspective as someone who overlooked warning signs, went ahead and married, and spent my whole adult life in an abusive relationship. I would hate to see her have to go through that. I definitely do sense a big red flag, especially with the way she has gone on to excuse his behavior and retract everything she previously said. I hope that she takes a serious look at this relationship and realizes that plans can be changed.

A little more info on “walking on eggshells”…

bpd411.org/walkingoneggshells.html

I don’t know anything about the OP’s fiance, but I really do see big red flags. All I can say is that I’ve been there and done that and that’s EXACTLY what it looks like. It’s not so much what he’s done (or is reported to have done) that I’m basing it on… it’s what I’m seeing HER doing. I see the OP trying to figure out how to change her perfectly normal behavior so that she won’t upset her fiance any more. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying, “When we’re married, I would like to paint the house.” Nothing. At all. And, here she is trying to figure out how to change so that she won’t make that mistake, again. I well remember what that was like.

And, I also noticed that she retracted what she said/excused his behavior. That’s pretty normal, too, I think. I just hope that what we’re saying sticks in her mind. There’s nothing wrong with postponing a wedding for a little while until you’re 100% certain.

The only way to avoid making that mistake, again, would be to simply never express any desires or opinions. Want to paint the house? Keep your mouth shut. Because, after all, it’s the desire to have a painted house that was interpreted as manipulative. You didn’t say, “I’d like you to paint the house” or even “I want US to paint the house” or “Why won’t you paint the house” - just that YOU want to paint the house. And, clearly, that is not OK. He doesn’t want to paint the house and if you want the house painted, that is manipulating him. Want to visit family? Keep your mouth shut. Because if the fiance isn’t keen on visiting them, himself, then he will feel manipulated. Want to go to the Poconos on your next vacation? Well… it would be manipulative to say, “Next year, I’d like to go to the Poconos” because he wants to go to Florida and now he feels manipulated.

 

[chevalier]

Well, you have a point there. But we only really have some verbal quotations here. We have nothing like the pitch of the voice or the body language or even not so many details of the surrounding situation. We can’t say that much.

 

[Orionthehunter]

Just wondering, I always feel like if I make a simple request for something, that I am being manipulative! I never want to manipulate my future husband or be so spoiled that he can’t tell me no. What advice do you all have for requesting the things that seem important to you, without making him feel like he has to do it or that you will pout for months if he does not?

You have probably hit on the biggest source of discord between my wife and me. She asks me to do something, I respond “if I have time” or some other non-committal answer. She gets upset when it doesn’t get done. I tell her I didn’t say “I would” do it but that I might. She is mad because she assumed that I would make it a priority and do it.

Alternatively, she asks, I say no. She gets mad. I respond “If I am not free to say no, it isn’t a request but it is an order”.

On the other hand, I’m one who just does w/o help. Sometimes, she will say “can I help” and I decline because I can do it. If I want it done, I think I should do it and not burden her with it. She doesn’t see helping me as a burden. For this reason, she doesn’t see why I react as if her request is a burden on me when really I’m saying if it is a priority to you, go for it.

Anyway, you get the drift. Trust me, this will be likely a source of contention. One of you will be an asker and the other won’t. One will just do it solo and the other will want to help. The asker will expect more from the other to the point of sometimes being not an asker but a General. The “solo” will forego opportunity to share tasks.

Welcome to married life. But despite these challenges, it is better than the alternative if you are called to the marriage vocation.

 

[duskyjewel]

Welcome to married life. But despite these challenges, it is better than the alternative if you are called to the marriage vocation.

I couldn’t disagree more strongly. ANY marriage is not better than no marriage if marriage is your vocation. Especially for the sake of the children we will produce, we MUST be discerning and seek out quality marriages. Children deserve two healthy, functional parents who work well together, not a home full of emotional tension or worse because the spouses chose badly.

This is like saying that if you are called to the priesthood, just join any order, because seeking out the one where you will fit the best and where your talents and gifts will be best used doesn’t matter as long as you are a priest.

 

[blueskiesrgs]

Everyone, thank you so much for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I am in a stage of prayer and evaluation, and there is no wedding date yet, so I am not going to be jumping the gun on getting married. It is funny, because in so many ways, he really is there for me and lets me be myself. I mean, he is always a shoulder to cry on; when I injured myself badly last year, he voluntarily took me to all of my doctors appointments or found someone else to drive me when he wasn’t able to. I can be (and am) a brat to him, I tease him, etc. which are all part of me and he loves all of it!
These are the reasons that I am with him and do try to work this particular issue out. Please keep praying for me!

 

[Orionthehunter]

I couldn’t disagree more strongly. ANY marriage is not better than no marriage if marriage is your vocation. Especially for the sake of the children we will produce, we MUST be discerning and seek out quality marriages. Children deserve two healthy, functional parents who work well together, not a home full of emotional tension or worse because the spouses chose badly.

This is like saying that if you are called to the priesthood, just join any order, because seeking out the one where you will fit the best and where your talents and gifts will be best used doesn’t matter as long as you are a priest.

I never intended to imply any such thing. I’ve reread my post but I don’t see how you got this impression.

I’m assuming that this person has found the person she believes she is called to marry, I understand she is still discerning it, and the thrust of her question was related to an area where she either has a weakness (like my wife) and wants to develop ways to overcome or mitigate it.

In no way do I advocate what you got out of my post.

 

[whatevergirl]

I am aware that he is insecure in certain measures. I have been learning to adjust in the way I talk, though sometimes I do still forget! There have been things that we have talked about that he does admit he is wrong and he has made the effort to change. It is a two way street! I think that I will ask him how I can make requests that won’t make him feel like he is being manipulated!

I would talk about it–thoroughly. Even seek counseling if necessary. This is your life too…and before you get married, you need to understand what you’re getting into. Eggshells and marriage don’t mix.

 

[Seatuck]

Everyone, thank you so much for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I am in a stage of prayer and evaluation, and there is no wedding date yet, so I am not going to be jumping the gun on getting married. It is funny, because in so many ways, he really is there for me and lets me be myself. I mean, he is always a shoulder to cry on; when I injured myself badly last year, he voluntarily took me to all of my doctors appointments or found someone else to drive me when he wasn’t able to. I can be (and am) a brat to him, I tease him, etc. which are all part of me and he loves all of it!
These are the reasons that I am with him and do try to work this particular issue out. Please keep praying for me!

Sounds like some lessons in communication is in order. Perhaps an Engaged Encounter. I also recommend Greg Popcaks’s book For Better Forever. I do think you need to solve this before you get married. There is a possiblilty you both need to work on some things.

 

[dulcissima]

Everyone, thank you so much for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I am in a stage of prayer and evaluation, and there is no wedding date yet, so I am not going to be jumping the gun on getting married. It is funny, because in so many ways, he really is there for me and lets me be myself. I mean, he is always a shoulder to cry on; when I injured myself badly last year, he voluntarily took me to all of my doctors appointments or found someone else to drive me when he wasn’t able to. I can be (and am) a brat to him, I tease him, etc. which are all part of me and he loves all of it!
These are the reasons that I am with him and do try to work this particular issue out. Please keep praying for me!

I could have said the same thing about my ex husband too. Afterall, there was a reason I married him. I think it might be a good idea to get some premarital counseling from a marriage and family therapist who has experience with emotional abuse. That way you could get a clearer idea if there is a major problem or help on working on your communication as a couple if there are just minor problems. I wish you the best.

 

[priscilla1714]

Dont marry him. He reminds me of my super nice, devout catholic, christian fiance, who is overly sensitive Aand has changed my whole life upside down. He is insecure, then makes me to feel like i did or said something wrong or my tone of voice was just too harsh. Anyhow, i walk on egg shells and though he, like ur fiance, takes care of my every need, he plays with my mind. For example, here lately ive been researching brain manipulations and brainwashing because i think im a victim. My fiance has great mannerism, crys often, all my decisions have to go through him because if i dont communicate every decision with him, then its my fault that i have poor communication so now our relationship suffers because i didnt communicate painting the walls yellow. He cried about me painting the walls yellow. He said i made him feel unworthy and like his opinions dont matter. My very old house needs major work but i am scared to ask about replacing the 100 yr old windows because he might disapprove and then blame me for taking control and making him feel unworthy. My Mr. Wonderful fiance, whom is kind, compassionate, reads the bible daily, and prays the rosary daily, has me thinking that i cannot make a decision on my own because my decisions arent always the best judgments. I have to depend on his thoughts before even putting up our christmas tree this year. Mr. Wonderful, also schedules my confessions and when i can attend mass. I feel like he forces religion down my throat because he wants me to see the good man in him after he repeatedly cheated on me with women in the past. Am i brainwashed???please someone help! Fyi, if i dare mention ending the relationship, its murder! He threatens to commit suicide.