How to make my atheist boyfriend more comfortable with NFP (for when we're married obviously)

[TheRealJuliane]

I really don’t want to be the spoil sport here, but I must quote from the constant teaching of the Catholic Church. Pope Leo XIII said it quite bluntly: Care also must be taken that Catholics do not easily enter into marriage with those who are not Catholics; for, when minds do not agree as to the observances of religion, it is scarcely possible to hope for agreement in other things. Other reasons also proving that persons should turn with dread from such marriages are chiefly these: that they give occasion to forbidden association and communion in religious matters; endanger the faith of the Catholic partner; are a hindrance to the proper education of the children; and often lead to a mixing up of truth and falsehood, and to the belief that all religions are equally good.
The Church has always taught this because it knows from tragic centuries of experience that when a marriage takes place between people of two different faiths, they are setting themselves up for an uphill battle. Marriage is already hard enough when both parties are faithful Catholics, so why make it even harder?

As Steve said, and as any priest or spiritual director will say, you should never enter into marriage thinking you will or can change the other. That’s a blueprint for disaster.

When it comes to morals, this is where things become the hardest, because morals flow from one’s religious views. In other words, if one is a Protestant or Atheist and they see nothing wrong with contraception or divorce, then from their point of view there is no good reason to avoid them. And when it comes to teaching your children, the children will be receiving mixed messages, and ultimately taking the easier path.
Getting married to an atheist also means he is the head of the household, meaning you must submit to his leadership and decisions, which will assuredly make it inconvenient for you to practice your faith.

LASTLY, nobody here is trying to be mean or cause you pain. We say these things out of Christian love, which to the secular world sounds cruel and judgmental. But anyone would have to admit it is better for friends to warn if they sense danger rather than just playing it cool so as to not rock the boat.

Man. I am so living that quote right now. If anyone wants my testimony, PM me.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

What canon are you talking about?

She said her boyfriend was baptized Catholic anyway.

Another HUGE concern. She will be afraid for her husband’s SOUL in addition to all of her concerns about his influence on her own faith and the development of faith in their children. A baptized yet lapsed Catholic is in mortal sin and danger of eternal damnation.

 

[1inICXC]

I didn’t read everything in here but in case the obvious hasn’t been mentioned, children learn best from example. Your teaching will be of no great consequence if daddy sits at home watching football while you go to mass.

Sort your faith out first and meditate on how you would wish your future household to look like and then find someone who fits that mold…if you think you’ll just be able to make the square fit into the circle somehow you’ll partake of muchnfnustration and disappointment. I would have always wished my husband was AT LEAST confessing and taking Communion before entrusting my life to him.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

One more thing - OP, you are getting the cart before the horse. You should be discerning marriage for AT LEAST one year before even considering that lifetime commitment. 5 mos. is not nearly enough time to know someone before starting to think of him as your future husband. And that is someone who shares your faith. I’d say simply don’t date someone who doesn’t. Does your lapsed Catholic boyfriend also believe that marriage is for your entire lifetime? Or does he think that divorce is sometimes the best solution?

If my husband hadn’t already been a Catholic (although lapsed) when I reverted, I can unequivocally state that we would already have been divorced. There is no way someone with no belief in God could have understood what had happened to me. I don’t think my husband really understood, but at least he was raised Catholic so he understood what was going to happen in terms of Mass, the sacraments, etc.

 

[exoflare]

I didn’t read everything in here but in case the obvious hasn’t been mentioned, children learn best from example. Your teaching will be of no great consequence if daddy sits at home watching football while you go to mass.

At the risk of being “passive agressive” again, you’re dead on with this. Children are a lot quicker to detect hypocrisy than most people dream of giving them credit for.

Another thing is, what if God forbid something happens to OP while any children are still at a young age? In that case, you’re trusting the fate of their immortal souls to be guided only by a single atheist role model during their crucial formative years.

 

[stina2bina]

One more thing - OP, you are getting the cart before the horse. You should be discerning marriage for AT LEAST one year before even considering that lifetime commitment. 5 mos. is not nearly enough time to know someone before starting to think of him as your future husband.

I have to say, I disagree with this completely. I don’t casually date someone without considering them for marriage from the beginning. Otherwise I’m just wasting my time. As I stated in my original post, engagement isn’t even going to be for at least another year or two and that’s assuming things continue as they are. .

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I have to say, I disagree with this completely. I don’t casually date someone without considering them for marriage from the beginning. Otherwise I’m just wasting my time. As I stated in my original post, engagement isn’t even going to be for at least another year or two and that’s assuming things continue as they are. .

OK, so what you’re saying is that you have considered this atheist marriage material since you met him. I’m done here.

 

[stina2bina]

OK, so what you’re saying is that you have considered this atheist marriage material since you met him. I’m done here.

I’m sad for you that you don’t think anyone who is an atheist, regardless of who they are as a person, how open they are to the faith, how many sacrifices they make for the relationship to work, is not worthy to date a “good Catholic girl” like me. Apparently, anyone who is a non-Christian, is doomed to marry someone who will further them down the road to hell I understand why many people say it will be too difficult a marriage to bother looking into it as a possibility. Totally understand and respect that view. I’ve just seen plenty of examples on the contrary and believe that with an open attitude, an atheist can build his wife up in Christ. I am by no means perfect, and my bf has taught me a lot and so far has done nothing to distance me from my faith, and in fact as propelled me to get to know Christ in ways I never imagined possible

All I’m saying is that it’s sad that the comments on this CHRISTIAN forum haven’t been more along the lines of: “Although this young man seems like a good man and it is admirable that he is trying so hard to be a worthy husband for you, I think in the future it will be harder than you realize”. No, instead I’m getting nothing but how he is obviously going to try to tear my future children away from the church and divorce me. The fact that no one here has anything nice to say about a 24-year-old man who isn’t Catholic yet is open to NFP, treats me better than any former Catholic bfs, going to Mass with me on occasion and is supportive enough to remind me to say grace is devastating to me. Seriously, if anyone here has SEEN the dating world these days, you would see just how beautiful that is.

Thank goodness I have received so many kind private messages on this forum. I’ll be honest, a lot of comments here sometimes make me just want to leave this website. I’m sure you are all well intentioned, and I promise I take everything you say very seriously, but the tone of many responses is quite disagreeable and unloving.

My discernment into this will continue and I’ll keep my eyes and ears open to problems that could arise in this relationship. That being said, I will also continue to look for and marvel in Christ within my (yes, atheist) boyfriend

God Bless

 

[stina2bina]

Oh! and quick update:

Thanks to some of the amazing suggestions from this forum, I asked my boyfriend if he would feel more comfortable if I started charting now so I would have a strong grasp on NFP IF we get engaged eventually (again, even though it won’t be for at least another year). He said it definitely would, and even paid for the computerized software you can order online. He’s really grateful I’m trying my best to make him feel comfortable (and went to Mass with me this morning ) I’m actually pretty stoked to try it out, since I figure I will (maybe) get to put it into practice one day. and he is officially 100% happy to use NFP.

Mission accomplished Thanks again for all your help

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I’ve just seen plenty of examples on the contrary and believe that with an open attitude, an atheist can build his wife up in Christ.

Really? Exactly how can an atheist, who does not believe there is such a thing as God, build his wife up in Christ? I would be fascinated to learn this. My husband although ostensibly Catholic, has done NOTHING to “build me up in Christ” over the 20 years since I reverted. How in the world could he, when he doesn’t believe?? Are you saying that because your boyfriend is an atheist, it causes you to delve deeper into your faith? That is an entirely different matter than HIM “building you up in Christ.”

Don’t delude yourself. Continue if you wish to, but don’t pretend that he is in any way “building you up in Christ.” He is doing nothing of the sort. He is merely not impeding you in your own faith. And maybe he never will, good for him. Does not mean that you will not experience spiritual loneliness in your future marriage.

 

[bilop]

I didn’t read everything in here but in case the obvious hasn’t been mentioned, children learn best from example. Your teaching will be of no great consequence if daddy sits at home watching football while you go to mass.

Sort your faith out first and meditate on how you would wish your future household to look like and then find someone who fits that mold…if you think you’ll just be able to make the square fit into the circle somehow you’ll partake of muchnfnustration and disappointment. I would have always wished my husband was AT LEAST confessing and taking Communion before entrusting my life to him.

To further this point, studies have shown that the father is the principal determinant of whether children practice their faith.

A child with a devout father, but lukewarm or lapsed mother, is more likely to become a practicing Catholic than a child in the reverse situation.

God Bless

 

[akela135]

To further this point, studies have shown that the father is the principal determinant of whether children practice their faith.

A child with a devout father, but lukewarm or lapsed mother, is more likely to become a practicing Catholic than a child in the reverse situation.

God Bless

While statistics do explain a larger trend it is not always the case on individual levels. I think she should consider this trend but ultimately her and her BF might not fall into this catergory. For instance my grandfather was a deeply devote Catholic (as was his wife, my grandmother). Of their four children, only one has remained Catholic. Likewise I know people who’s fathers are atheist who have remained strong in their faith thanks to their mother. While this goes against the statistics it does happen and it would be good for the OP to investigate things further. If for instance it was found this happened 85% of the time the other 15% of couples must be doing something right to make it work. It would be good to learn more about both sets to find out which is a more likely scenerio for the future of the OP’s relationship. Her relationship might fall into the hypothetical 15% but only she would know.

@TRJ - I think what she means is that her boyfriend encourages her to go to mass and practice her faith at home. I believe at one point she mentioned if she struggles with some aspect of her faith then her boyfriend has encouraged her to find her faith again through prayer and study. The only thing a Catholic boyfriend could add to this sort of help is prayer, which is not to be underestimated. There is also the possibility that a Catholic boyfriend wouldn’t even contribute this level of help to their relationship. Especially since I know Catholics who use this line of thinking “I’m a Catholic and I use ABC and have premarital sex, so therefore you can too because if it was wrong Catholics like me wouldn’t do it.” Obviously the OP should avoid those types of “Catholics”.

The OP says she was looking for a relationship that supported her in her faith and this guy met those standards. Her faith is number one and she wants someone who can understand that and according to her, her last Catholic BF didn’t while this atheist does, which is why she started dating him.

 

[stina2bina]

Really? Exactly how can an atheist, who does not believe there is such a thing as God, build his wife up in Christ? I would be fascinated to learn this. My husband although ostensibly Catholic, has done NOTHING to “build me up in Christ” over the 20 years since I reverted. How in the world could he, when he doesn’t believe?? Are you saying that because your boyfriend is an atheist, it causes you to delve deeper into your faith? That is an entirely different matter than HIM “building you up in Christ.”

Don’t delude yourself. Continue if you wish to, but don’t pretend that he is in any way “building you up in Christ.” He is doing nothing of the sort. He is merely not impeding you in your own faith. And maybe he never will, good for him. Does not mean that you will not experience spiritual loneliness in your future marriage.

To add to what Akela stated, not only does he encourage me to practice my faith when I forget, our discussions about religion have also propelled me to grow in Christ. It is one of our favourite things to discuss because we both feel loved and respected. He asks me why certain teachings are what they are, why Jesus would say or do certain things, and then I’d research so I can answer his questions. My parish priest gets such a kick from the randomness of some of the questions I’ve brought forward. And now my boyfriend has gone from a man who really disliked religion, to a man who thinks that the Catholic Church is “one of the best religions”, does much good, and genuinely brings people happiness… I don’t know about you guys, but have you EVER heard an atheist say that the Catholic church is the best religion?

In contrast, when I dated my practicing-Catholic boyfriend, he didn’t think about these things, I was not encouraged to do more than really go to Mass, my faith became less engaging, and our relationship was much more sinful as a result (we just followed the obvious “rules” and didn’t think of the virtue of chastity in-and-of itself) . Based on my experience, I’d take an engaging, supportive atheist over a lukewarm Catholic any day!

Lastly, I am a firm FIRM believer that one of the best ways to grow in relationship with Christ is through witnessing Him within those who surround us, and it has been a joy seeing and interacting with Christ through my boyfriend. It is VERY evident that he is there

P.S. The amount of supportive private messages I’ve found in my inbox even just this morning have been overwhelming and I really appreciate the kindness I’ve received.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

While statistics do explain a larger trend it is not always the case on individual levels. I think she should consider this trend but ultimately her and her BF might not fall into this catergory. For instance my grandfather was a deeply devote Catholic (as was his wife, my grandmother). Of their four children, only one has remained Catholic. Likewise I know people who’s fathers are atheist who have remained strong in their faith thanks to their mother. While this goes against the statistics it does happen and it would be good for the OP to investigate things further. If for instance it was found this happened 85% of the time the other 15% of couples must be doing something right to make it work. It would be good to learn more about both sets to find out which is a more likely scenerio for the future of the OP’s relationship. Her relationship might fall into the hypothetical 15% but only she would know.

@TRJ - I think what she means is that her boyfriend encourages her to go to mass and practice her faith at home. I believe at one point she mentioned if she struggles with some aspect of her faith then her boyfriend has encouraged her to find her faith again through prayer and study. The only thing a Catholic boyfriend could add to this sort of help is prayer, which is not to be underestimated. There is also the possibility that a Catholic boyfriend wouldn’t even contribute this level of help to their relationship. Especially since I know Catholics who use this line of thinking “I’m a Catholic and I use ABC and have premarital sex, so therefore you can too because if it was wrong Catholics like me wouldn’t do it.” Obviously the OP should avoid those types of “Catholics”.

The OP says she was looking for a relationship that supported her in her faith and this guy met those standards. Her faith is number one and she wants someone who can understand that and according to her, her last Catholic BF didn’t while this atheist does, which is why she started dating him.

I understand that her BF is not impeding her faith practices. He is supportive, to a point, although he still does not quite support NFP; thus, her original post. But being somewhat supportive and not impeding does not equate to “building her up in Christ.” That is why I put that quote into large red letters, in case others reading this thread are minimizing the choice to get involved with an atheist. I want the OP to understand that even if she has met Catholic men who are not practicing their faith as well as they should, that does not mean that an atheist, as good a person as he might be, will be a suitable husband for a devout Catholic young woman.

Of course they could beat the odds. But then again, the stakes are quite high, especially if and when children are born. Will he really support her when it comes to transferring the faith, or might he subtly tear down the belief that she is carefully trying to nurture? God bless those forum members who have negotiated these difficult and dangerous rapids! I am NOT denigrating your relationships in any way! However, just being alone in your faith can be a challenge. And if your husband decides he doesn’t really want the kids to be Catholic, then what?

Some number of atheists convert eventually. We have some of those on this forum. But no one should go into a relationship expecting it to happen, and should watch very carefully for any doubt that creeps into his or her own faith.

 

[agapewolf]

. Based on my experience, I’d take an engaging, supportive atheist over a lukewarm Catholic any day!

Those aren’t your only two options.

 

[thewanderer]

Oh! and quick update:

Thanks to some of the amazing suggestions from this forum, I asked my boyfriend if he would feel more comfortable if I started charting now so I would have a strong grasp on NFP IF we get engaged eventually (again, even though it won’t be for at least another year). He said it definitely would, and even paid for the computerized software you can order online. He’s really grateful I’m trying my best to make him feel comfortable (and went to Mass with me this morning ) I’m actually pretty stoked to try it out, since I figure I will (maybe) get to put it into practice one day. and he is officially 100% happy to use NFP.

Mission accomplished Thanks again for all your help

I’m glad to hear it.

I just wanted to add that charting is actually kind of awesome whether or not you are planning. If your cycles are at all irregular there will be no more guessing as to when your next period will be, you will actually know when it will come instead of having to worry about whether or not you are going to have to deal with it. Also, if you get pms etc, you can get a better idea of when that will be effecting you so you can plan ahead. I am also not sexually active but don’t think I will ever stop charting, it really is empowering for women and something that every woman really ought to do, whether or not they are trying to plan a family.

 

[thewanderer]

I understand that her BF is not impeding her faith practices. He is supportive, to a point, although he still does not quite support NFP; thus, her original post. But being somewhat supportive and not impeding does not equate to “building her up in Christ.” That is why I put that quote into large red letters, in case others reading this thread are minimizing the choice to get involved with an atheist. I want the OP to understand that even if she has met Catholic men who are not practicing their faith as well as they should, that does not mean that an atheist, as good a person as he might be, will be a suitable husband for a devout Catholic young woman.

And according to the OP the support he has so given has actually, truly, helped to build up her faith. Are we to assume that the OP is lying about this? Or that she just doesn’t understand what is really happening? It is one thing to suggest that the OP look at herself and her life carefully in case she is missing something, and to think and pray seriously about this becausse many people have issues with this. It is another thing entirely to insist that the OP will necessarly have problems or that it is absolutely impossible that the OP’s faith is being built up by her atheist boyfriend. While generalities are important to pay attention to, it is also important to recognize that they are only generalities and so at times really ought to be discarded. Whether or not that is true in the OP’s case only she can determine, so I think we should avoid coming to absolute conclusions about her situation.

Some number of atheists convert eventually. We have some of those on this forum. But no one should go into a relationship expecting it to happen, and should watch very carefully for any doubt that creeps into his or her own faith.

Where did the OP say she is planning on converting her boyfriend? It sounded to me more like she is able to accept him for who he is, in part because, as is, he actually helps to build her up in her faith and encourage her to become a better Catholic. I mean, obviously, I’m sure she’d be thrilled if he decided to convert, but that doesn’t mean that she is pinning all her hopes and dreams on his conversion. My fiance has his own issues that, of course, I would be thrilled if he overcame. But I love him as a person anyway and am willing to deal with his issues just as he is willing to deal with mine. You can’t expect to change a person once married, but you also can’t expect to marry a perfect person either, instead you have to marry someone who helps build you up, and whose faults you can accept and deal with.

 

[PennyinCanada]

I just wanted to add that charting is actually kind of awesome whether or not you are planning. If your cycles are at all irregular there will be no more guessing as to when your next period will be, you will actually know when it will come instead of having to worry about whether or not you are going to have to deal with it. Also, if you get pms etc, you can get a better idea of when that will be effecting you so you can plan ahead. I am also not sexually active but don’t think I will ever stop charting, it really is empowering for women and something that every woman really ought to do, whether or not they are trying to plan a family.

I think every Catholic mom should be teaching her daughters how to chart and how to understand their cycles. I would have benefited greatly had I known in the teen years. Delays in ovulation because of stress would have been figured out, and surprises wouldn’t have been surprises. I’ve had some bleeding when ovulating, and knowing it wasn’t my period starting would have been nice. The doctors I’ve had weren’t any help. When I told them I had bleeding during my ovulation, they told me flat out I couldn’t possibly know that. They were wrong. Catholic moms, teach your daughters. You’ll be doing them a big favor!

 

[1AugustSon7]

Care also must be taken that Catholics do not easily enter into marriage with those who are not Catholics;

This does not apply to the situation: the very fact that the OP is insisting on NFP, for example, and has placed it and her faith as a condition, frustrates obviously and to the extreme easy marriage between the faithful and the general secular population. So this criteria is met.

they give occasion to forbidden association and communion in religious matters;

Also inapplicable: the potential spouse in this situation is, if I recall correctly, a lapsed Catholic and an atheist. Unless this person is, e.g., also a religious Humanist who insists on going to gatherings and meetings, and bringing his family along or of forcing or trumpeting the tenets of his beliefs on his family, then there is no danger of “association and communion in religious matters” except for Catholic ones, which is actually desirable.

endanger the faith of the Catholic partner;

This concern, in our case, has some legitimacy; however, if the other partner makes assurances and promises at least not to deliberately or actively hinder the faith of the Catholic or, what’s better, even believes it to be a good thing for them and is consequently even to an extent supportive, then the concern here is reduced/mitigated.

are a hindrance to the proper education of the children;

Unless the non-Catholic partner plans or means to prevent the Catholic education of the children, then this is not a concern. Moreover, if the non-Catholic promises to allow the Catholic education of the children, and even promises to support it, then the concern here is mitigated.

and often lead to a mixing up of truth and falsehood, and to the belief that all religions are equally good.

In the present situation -unless the non-Catholic partner is in some formal, quasi-religious (or effectively “religious”) association, and has some formal beliefs or doctrines that he is extremely attached to and means to propagate to the denial or frustration of the Catholic formation of the children or the Catholic spouse, then this concern is not actually present in this situation.

SUMMARY
Pope Leo XIII was writing in and at a time when men were more inclined to be religious about their beliefs/creeds -even atheists or rationalists were devoutly atheistic or rationalist. Moreover, the concern was that fidelity to one’s Creed, be it a Christian one either lacking the fullness of Catholic tenets, containing defective tenets or even anti-Catholic ones, would result in one spouse or partner trying to effectively proselytize the other.

Today, it is simply not uncommon to find large swathes of the population who, though not Catholic or even Christian, are effectively passive in the subject of religion. Once they are informed of what Catholic practice and formation (of the children) involve they conclude it to be, on the whole, unobjectionable. Indeed, there is little to object to in living the Catholic life and faith. That this is the present situation is attested, I think, by the fact that the “non-Catholic partner” is concerned about the one thing we expect such persons to be concerned about; namely, reproductive matters. This falls largely under practice and does not necessarily constitute an objection to the belief. It is simply a realistic concern that shows that the non-Catholic is indeed sufficiently serious about keeping his respective obligations in marrying a practicing Catholic. There would, in my mind, be more reason for concern if the other partner thought nothing about the practice of NFP, which is effectively openess to new life (or otherwise complete abstinence), within the context of his or her planned marriage. For me, that would demonstrate that the non-Catholic partner doesn’t really understand what’s involved in marrying a faithful Catholic. This would reasonably cause us to expect problems down the road and the “activation” of some of the concerns mentioned by His Holiness, Pope Leo XIII.

 

[maryjk]

Has anyone dealt with an atheist husband + NFP? Other than showing him more studies and getting him to chart with me when the time comes, how can I help him feel better about it?

How about I actually answer your question?

Yes, I am married to an atheist. Have been for over 20 years.

Yes, we use NFP and have for years. Yes, it has worked for us.

Now, how to explain it?

My husband agreed to it because it was important to me. Simple as that. I didn’t need to prove that it worked. Although he did some research on it… It came down to him respecting my beliefs and following through with something that I felt was important.