How to move on?

[DL82]

Okay, so my ex fiancee left me more than 6 months ago. I foolishly pursued an attempt to rekindle a friendship with her that she clearly didn’t want, and in the end led to her hating me and screwing up any chance of us ever knowing eachother in the future. I’ve accepted that we will never be together, nor even be friends. So far, so good.

What worries me is that I still feel so attached to what we had that I don’t believe I’ll ever have anything better. What also worries me is that I’m still the same man who messed things up with my ex, and am likely to do the same again. What also worries me is that the one person who has ever seen all the emotional baggage I carry ended up freaking out, breaking down and hating me because of it.

I remember seeing a pro-life, pro-family presentation recently where an eminent speaker showed that statistically people who have only had one sexual partner and who waited until they were married have twice the chance of staying together for life than those who don’t. Now that I’ve broken that, I feel like damaged goods. I don’t want to get married if I risk a higher chance of divorce and unfaithfulness. At least now my ex hates me so thoroughly I know there’s no chance I’d ever cheat on my wife with her. All the same, no woman deserves to be second choice.

How do I get over this? I know some Evangelical protestants who would argue that marriage is not contracted by a sacrament but by the act of committing yourself to a relationship and having sexual relations. If that were the case, I would be married. I know the Church does not teach this, but it’s how I feel. Should I simply behave as a divorced man and remain celebate? A penitential life does seem to be the most appropriate response to such a hurtful disaster which I have created through my own sins. Is there some other way of moving on?

 

[water]

What also worries me is that I’m still the same man who messed things up with my ex, and am likely to do the same again.
…

Should I simply behave as a divorced man and remain celebate?

Hi DL, I am sorry that things didn’t work out between you and the other person. I took out two sentences above from your post, I’d like to think that you should not worry about if you need to get married or to stay single in the future. If you are still the same man ( I don’t know exactly what happened between you too), then you are still the same man despite of your martial status.

What you really need to focus on right now is yourself. Pray to the Holy Spirit that you have a better self-knowledge, a desire and grace to change the area in your life where it should be changed.

I pray that you will be healed.

 

[Dragoro]

I’ve been there. It just takes time and a constant effort of remembering she’s not part of your life. It took me a couple of years to fully get over her.

 

[CarrieH]

No, no, NO, you are not “damaged goods!!!” You are a poor sinner like the rest of us – welcome to the club. Assuming you have repented of your sexual sins, confessed them, and received absolution, you are as worthy as anyone else of putting this behind you and moving on with your life. You fell, but you need to get back up! Don’t let the devil rub your face in the mud and keep you in a pit of misery for the rest of your life.

As far as those statistics, one must keep in mind that there are other factors besides just the fact that those people in the most successful marriages waited to have sex, and have only been with each other with no other partners. The people who wait are usually deeply religious, with much self-discipline. Those are the traits that favor a lifetime marriage commitment; the “waiting” is simply one of the fruits of those values. You are living chastely now, and you are in a position to start fresh with someone new, committing yourself to remaining chaste from now on. It’s so much easier to do that from the start than to try to back-track once you have crossed the line with someone.

It is only too easy to dwell on the good times you had with your ex and to think that you will never again have the same feelings for someone else. But no relationship is perfect, and there must have been some less-than-wonderful times as well. Breakups are rarely just one-sided; there was usually trouble brewing for awhile even though we may not admit it to ourselves. Try to be realistic as you look back, and acknowledge the bad times as well as the good. If your ex freaked and bailed on you when you showed your true self to her, that doesn’t mean that it was your fault. SHE might have had some very unrealistic expectations, and when she saw that you were a human with weaknesses like everyone else rather than her own personal Superman, maybe that was too much for her. You wouldn’t want to be with someone like that for the long haul anyway, no matter how wonderful she seemed to be during the time you were together.

There is no reason to resign yourself to a penitential life just because this relationship went sour. If you are called to such a life, God will let you know. In the mean time, how about just spending some time with some nice young ladies just as friends? Maybe there is a young person’s group in your church or diocese, or if there is a college in the area, they might have a Catholic students’ group or something. Remember, to keep yourself focused on what is no longer in your life is often to blind yourself to the blessings which are here in the present. Good luck to you, and God bless.

 

[Della]

As one who married a man who had been married before, I certainly don’t fee like I’m “second best.” My dh married the first time for much the same reasons you think you were “married” to your ex-gf. He was guilted into it and was miserable the whole time. Thankfully, there was a “lack of form” (he was Catholic and didn’t have a Catholic priest or deacon witness their vows), so getting an annulment wasn’t difficult.

Anyway, he made a big mistake, but he hasn’t had any urges to be unfaithful because he had sex with someone else before we were married. It’s not automatic. When you find the one God intended for you such thoughts will disappear.

If you haven’t, go to confession for your sins and go on from there. That’s what forgiveness is for, not just for making us “feel” better. Just be sure to remain celibate until you meet Ms. Right. Then you will have your new self to offer her instead of your old self filled with regret and pain.

 

[GraceDK]

Okay, so my ex fiancee left me more than 6 months ago. I foolishly pursued an attempt to rekindle a friendship with her that she clearly didn’t want, and in the end led to her hating me and screwing up any chance of us ever knowing eachother in the future. I’ve accepted that we will never be together, nor even be friends. So far, so good.

What worries me is that I still feel so attached to what we had that I don’t believe I’ll ever have anything better. What also worries me is that I’m still the same man who messed things up with my ex, and am likely to do the same again. What also worries me is that the one person who has ever seen all the emotional baggage I carry ended up freaking out, breaking down and hating me because of it.

I remember seeing a pro-life, pro-family presentation recently where an eminent speaker showed that statistically people who have only had one sexual partner and who waited until they were married have twice the chance of staying together for life than those who don’t. Now that I’ve broken that, I feel like damaged goods. I don’t want to get married if I risk a higher chance of divorce and unfaithfulness. At least now my ex hates me so thoroughly I know there’s no chance I’d ever cheat on my wife with her. All the same, no woman deserves to be second choice.

How do I get over this? I know some Evangelical protestants who would argue that marriage is not contracted by a sacrament but by the act of committing yourself to a relationship and having sexual relations. If that were the case, I would be married. I know the Church does not teach this, but it’s how I feel. Should I simply behave as a divorced man and remain celebate? A penitential life does seem to be the most appropriate response to such a hurtful disaster which I have created through my own sins. Is there some other way of moving on?

Brother…
all I can say is :crying: and :hug1: I know excatly how you feel…
But if you wanna know my perspective… I think those catholic statistics are full of an agenda that is: “Dont even go there”… when it comes to premarital sex. Like with all other statistics you have to be critical.
However… these statistics focus on sex… but many other marriages fall apart because of lack of humility and understanding…
Now you can be humble and walk forward as a honest man knowing your self to be the sinner that Jesus tells us that we are but that it sometimes takes a hard visible fall for us to realise we are…Dont panic… take a deep breath.
When I’d sinned I wanted to die by stoning… but luckily God did not take that seriously. He is the great Doctor.

Don’t go live on a rock eating grasshoppers…
There will be a girl out there for you. Work on making your self ready to meet her by becoming a man that has the same standards that you seek in a young woman. And dont be desperate to go and find her now even though you feel the loneliness intensely … you are too hurt and need to heal and get your life back on track and focused on God first.

Renewed purity… that is the key. You are not lost… you may have lost some innocense but you have not given yourself away in the marital embrace… Work on that renewed purity now both when it comes to your body and your mind. If you meet a good woman one day she will not look at some fall you experienced some years ago… but at the man you have become and the choices you have made since then.

Virginity is not a virtue. Chastity is.

We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory… But draw close to Jesus and contemplate Him, strive to follow Him and He will be your holiness, your righteousness and your beauty that can be compared to nothing else.
Let the Lord save you, even in that pitch black hole …
and let your self heal… maybe it will take one year … then life will look better and you will be able to smile again.

And brother… if you can then find some people to pray with… some Christian brothers to talk and pray with… that would be good for you …

As Azeem the Great One said to Robin Hood: “Come on, You’re still alive”

 

[bayoubutterfly]

wow, do I know how you feel! I suffered a divorce AND a breakup with a so called “fiance” all within a six month period of time. While it was wrong of me to enter into another relationship at the time, I feel that because I have been so hurt by two different men that I loved, and loved me back, that I will never be able to trust another man again. I will file for an annulment, but if I get one, even then I don’t know if I ever want to marry again. It will hard to love and trust someone a third time. All I can tell you is what so many here have told me…Pray we will pray for you also

 

[chevalier]

It will take a while. Some attachments last for a long time. Ultimately, you will find peace, but not right away.

I can tell you I still miss the girl who broke up with me 15 months ago, even if it was actually a good thing the relationship ended, I think. The relationship wasn’t bad and I can’t say I regret it ever having taken place. I certainly regret how I treated her badly on some occasions or how I mishandled certain things. But this doesn’t really prevent me from moving on. Even the knowledge that perhaps if I had handled some things differently, she then might have not left me and actually converted, it ending up a happy Catholic marriage, it still doesn’t prevent me from moving on. It doesn’t prevent me from thinking that maybe one day I’ll be happy with someone - even if that seems unlikely (i.e. it is very unlikely that I might find someone who’d match and find me agreeable that way, reserving that I have some standards too). But it’s just that the passing of time helps wounds close. They don’t bleed. Scars remain but life isn’t in danger. You’ll find someone and even if not, then your present state will not last forever regardless.

Right now you don’t need to think about relationships. Things will change when you’re ready.

 

[DL82]

Thanks for all your advice, that’s really helpful.

I spoke to my priest too, and he suggested that this seems like a relationship that was based more on eros than agape, and that a relationship should be based on agape first, and eros develops from that.

I still have trouble knowing what that means. Does it mean I should not initially find the woman physically attractive? I do know a young woman who is very holy, and who I have enjoyed spending time with, but she just seems too holy for me. I get the feeling I could never show her my more cynical side without shattering her innocence.

Truth is, despite knowing in my head that the Church teaches that what we did was mortal sin, I still don’t think it was that bad. Of all the things I did that I regret in my relationship, sex was the least of my regrets. Other aspects of the way I treated my ex are far more abhorrent to me than my desire to satisfy her sexually. I’m not sure I really want this whole agape-led thing. I’d feel like any marriage that follows all the Church’s rules would be like a lifetime’s penance compared to what we had.

Also, lately, I have had this feeling that I really want to encourage all the young single Catholic women I meet to consider Religious life. I really don’t want them to consider anything less than their highest possible calling, and if they must marry, that they should marry someone who’s a better, more consistent, more long-standing, more stable, more devout Catholic than I am.

I also find it extremely disconcerting to be a convert in a University congregation at the moment, having no family connections of my own (and being a 3rd generation only child, thus not even having any non-Catholic extended family connections) and mixing with young people who are disconnected, at least temporarily, from their families. I read Belgarion’s thread on this board enviously, because I would love to be in a place where fathers cared about their daughters’ futures that much. I don’t place much trust in my own social abilities, so I don’t want my search for a future wife to be decided by ‘dating’. I don’t find it easy to relax or make small talk, yet I know if I met a woman who shared my levels of seriousness and intensity I’d find her intolerable.

My last relationship was long-distance, and that was great because we had to talk, there was nothing else we could do but talk. At the same time, I feel like if I try to find another long-distance relationship I’ll be repeating the same mistakes all over again.

I wish I could fall in love with Jesus or one of the Saints in such a profound way that I’d wait a lifetime for mystical marriage with them in the way that I was waiting to emmigrate and marry my ex. At the same time, I struggle with too many doubts.

 

[dulcissima]

Have you read Deus Caritas Est?

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est_en.html

 

[DL82]

Have you read Deus Caritas Est?

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est_en.html

I have read it, and it is beautiful, but I am still not sure what it means in terms of practical steps I can apply to my life.

The truth is, Catholic life is hard, and I’m very new to it (Tiber Swim Team '08). Sometimes, I still feel like a blind man hearing people talk about beautiful works of art. I know it must be very inspiring, but just can’t get that inspiration for myself. Everything people say to me about what I can do to live correctly, whether from a secular counsellor or Catholic spiritual direction, just seems impossible. I’ve still never taken control of my life, and I wouldn’t know where to begin, nor do I want to. The Lord’s grace has been kind to me so far, and I have been mostly happy and successful, without much (name removed by moderator)ut from me.

 

[dulcissima]

Practically speaking, I think that eros can be purified and become agape. I think that this is what you aim for with romantic love. I don’t think that this happened in your prior relationship, and that is where it fell short. I think one day you will be passionately attracted to some fortunate woman, but that your passion will be tempered and directed by your obedience to God, his laws, and a sacrificial desire to look out for what is truly best for the object of your desire, the woman who is the recipient of your true love.

 

[DL82]

Practically speaking, I think that eros can be purified and become agape. I think that this is what you aim for with romantic love. I don’t think that this happened in your prior relationship, and that is where it fell short. I think one day you will be passionately attracted to some fortunate woman, but that your passion will be tempered and directed by your obedience to God, his laws, and a sacrificial desire to look out for what is truly best for the object of your desire, the woman who is the recipient of your true love.

I tried my hardest to love my fiancee as an end in herself, to help her to realise her own dreams, not just to need her for sex. The truth is though that I became more and more needy at the same time, and began to use her as a counsellor more than a partner. It became a kind of agape, but the kind that is proper to a mother, not a wife.

 

[bilop]

I tried my hardest to love my fiancee as an end in herself, to help her to realise her own dreams, not just to need her for sex. The truth is though that I became more and more needy at the same time, and began to use her as a counsellor more than a partner. It became a kind of agape, but the kind that is proper to a mother, not a wife.

Sorry for your pain. I’ve been there. You WILL get over it, and when you meet your future wife you WILL realize how LUCKY you were to have broken up with your ex.

The problem with sexual relationships before marriage is that it creates a physical and chemical (as in brain chemistry) bond that is not matched by emotional and intellectual committment. Even when you logically know someone is wrong for you, the sexual bond prevents you from acting rationally.

The key is to find someone who is right for you spiritually and intellectually BEFORE you establish a romantic bond.

Don’t sell yourself short. Use what you’ve learned from this failed relationship to be a better man. Make yourself worthy of one of these pious Catholic women you speak of. And, don’t settle for less.

God Bless and Good Luck!

 

[DL82]

Don’t sell yourself short. Use what you’ve learned from this failed relationship to be a better man. Make yourself worthy of one of these pious Catholic women you speak of. And, don’t settle for less.

God Bless and Good Luck!

The problem is, and I really don’t want people to take this the wrong way, but… I really don’t want one of those pious Catholic women. I honestly think I’d be happier with someone else, someone who’s a bit less pristine and innocent, someone more willing to take risks, someone with a conscience, but also with some rough edges. And I honestly think they’d be happier with someone else, or happier as a Religious sister or working for priests or something.

 

[bilop]

The problem is, and I really don’t want people to take this the wrong way, but… I really don’t want one of those pious Catholic women. I honestly think I’d be happier with someone else, someone who’s a bit less pristine and innocent, someone more willing to take risks, someone with a conscience, but also with some rough edges. And I honestly think they’d be happier with someone else, or happier as a Religious sister or working for priests or something.

One doesn’t need to be naive or innocent to be pious.

Most of these pious Catholic women will marry, that is the vocation for 90+% of all people. They will want to marry good Catholic men.

God Bless

 

[DL82]

Somehow, I’ve already accepted that I’m better off not married to the woman I was with before, especially after seeing how she dealt with my attempts at reconciliation or recovering a friendship.

All the same, I don’t quite know how I would accept another. Like I said, all the good Catholic girls out there seem too good for me, and I want to encourage them to enter Religious life.

At the same time, I was happy with my long distance relationship, and it was only after we started to spend a serious amount of time together that things started to go wrong, it was the time apart that gave me time to work on all my problems, and try to improve. I always felt so loved and accepted when we were together that I had no more motivation to change or improve, like I needed some threat before I’d be a better person or recognise my faults. If I found a woman who would always point out my faults instead of accepting them, I’d be a better person, but I’d never be happy and neither would she.

Maybe what I really want is the ultimate long distance relationship, the one with my ultimate Spouse in Heaven, the one where I have to wait a lifetime for the marriage to take place. A lifetime is a long time to work on all those little faults and imperfections. Maybe that’s what would make me truly happy.

 

[dulcissima]

I think you need a woman who can help you to see yourself as God sees you. Yes, becoming aware of your faults and striving toward perfection is a good thing, but you also need to be aware of your infinite worth and just how much God loves you, imperfections and all.

I wonder, how familiar are you with St Therese of Lisieux and have you read Story of a Soul?

 

[GraceDK]

Get outta here DL…

Don’t go looking for a woman right now. You are a human of flesh. Go looking for Christ. Strive for conversion of heart that changes your out look on things so you become more one with His Nature.

Don’t believe people when they say innocence equals being boring or naive. Its the other thing that is boring: -men and women of today that use kissing and hugging and sex as though they were changing socks.

An exciting man is a man of self-control (excuse me for saying so but I find a man extremely attractive when I see him on his knees and when I hear that he has the strength to wait and control his lower instincts and make them serve the far greater which is LOVE.

And no… agape and eros are both beautiful… and they are both found in Christ. Many healthy relationships starts with eros/falling in love and being in the clouds… But a healthy relationship has both, at any point in the relationship… eros might have the upperhand in the beginning but they are both there. Yet dont think agape is boring and stiff… In no way. Agape is the quiet, strong heroic love that makes the world turn turn around. The capability in a man to love with agape-love is recognized in a woman who wants to find a head for her familily and a father for her children.

The heroic Christian man - in contrast to the looser - is not afraid to embrace BOTH agape and eros… (I am sorry to say that some priests are afraid of eros in an unhealthy way and that may reflect what they say…) He is responsible and strong and exiting in his manliness. He is no player because he knows what is really interesting inside and out. And he dares meet a woman who expects him to be the man God created him to be.

I feel like quoting a short passage from Søren Kierkegaard… Since you are a romantic you may be familiar with him. This is quite funny: “Ordinarily one goes around the globe to see rivers and mountains, new stars, strange birds, deformed fish, ridiculous human races, one gives one self over to the animal stupor, that gapes at existence and one believes that one has seen something. This does not interest me. Did I, however, know where to find a knight of faith , then I would on my feet walk to him; for this wonder certainly interests me”.

But hey… by all means… go and look for a woman with rouch edges and who does not take the Lord seriously… then you can use her, she can use you… you can both feel miserable without understanding why…split up… and then eventually you can come back to the church and join the real men when you are finished playing games.

Shalom.

 

[DL82]

Thanks GraceDK, that’s really good advice.

The only problem I have is, if I make a point of perfecting Agape love, then I find myself not wanting a woman at all, but wanting to be perfect instead, wanting that ultimate long-distance relationship with the Heavenly spouse…

Then I come back down, and have to wrestle with the idea that I’m attracted to women, and they are rarely the women I see in my church. That doesn’t mean there wouldn’t be a woman who is a devout Catholic who I would be attracted to, but just that I know that some of the things that attract me are not particularly edifying character traits, I’m not talking about being sexually permissive, just not being the kind of woman who can hold her own in a discussion rather than deferring out of humility, the kind of woman who doesn’t mind going out dancing till late sometimes, and who would faint if somebody told a dirty joke.

As for the comment about eros and agape, I realise that the two should both be part of a relationship, but according to my priest, and if I understand JPII’s “love and responsibility” correctly, in a good Catholic marriage, Agape should come first, and Eros develops out of that, otherwise the Eros warps the Agape into something that it shouldn’t be.

Problem is, if I focus on Agape, it doesn’t lead me into wanting a relationship, it leads me towards wanting to be a hermit or a lay brother, that’s where I feel I can best give of myself to God, yet the Eros is clearly still there somewhere inside me. What to do?