How to Move to the Eastern Rite

[Everyman]

I am a Latin Rite Catholic who has come through study and natural sensibilities to love and appreciate Eastern Christianity. There are several points of both theology and liturgy that appeal to me in the Eastern tradition.

So here’s the deal: I really have no desire or persuasion to leave the aspices of Rome, yet I have no Eastern Catholic church in my area. What should I do, simply stay put and deal with it? Some have suggested I continue attending mass at my Latin church while occasionally popping into a Vespers service or something at my local Orthodox church for a taste of Easternism.

What do you think?

 

[water]

Some have suggested I continue attending mass at my Latin church.
What do you think?

1. move/drive to another town where there is an Eastern Rite.
   or
2. stay where you are and attend your church where there is the Latin mass. Why would one suggest you to attend another church that is not in communion with Rome?

 

[Dempsey1919]

If what you crave is a more ancient and reverent brand of spirituality, then I would suggest that you attend a Sung Tridentine Mass, more properly known as a Missa Cantata. This Mass will be very similar to the Divine Liturgy in many respects.

Don’t be put off by the somewhat negative reputation of traditional Catholicism. We’re not all fanatics. Most of us are just people like yourselves who crave a more ancient style of worship.

If this is something you would consider, I suggest that you take the time to learn a little about the Tridentine/Extraordinary Form of the Mass. You will not regret it.

 

[theistgal]

As a Byzantine Rite Catholic, I occasionally attend Vespers at a nearby Orthodox Church when our Church is not having them - with my priest’s express permission.

I would suggest you speak to the priest at your local Church and ask for permission to attend the Orthodox Vespers you spoke of. As long as you are attending mass on Sunday and fulfilling your obligation (and as long as the Orthodox aren’t coming up to you before, during and after the Vespers trying to convert you, which they hardly ever do ), I can’t see why it would be a problem.

 

[Everyman]

1. Why would one suggest you to attend another church that is not in communion with Rome?

Why not? Giving up Sunday Mass isn’t suggested, merely adding to that some familiarity with another tradition.

 

[wynd]

If what you crave is a more ancient and reverent brand of spirituality, then I would suggest that you attend a Sung Tridentine Mass, more properly known as a Missa Cantata. This Mass will be very similar to the Divine Liturgy in many respects.

Don’t be put off by the somewhat negative reputation of traditional Catholicism. We’re not all fanatics. Most of us are just people like yourselves who crave a more ancient style of worship.

If this is something you would consider, I suggest that you take the time to learn a little about the Tridentine/Extraordinary Form of the Mass. You will not regret it.

Eastern Catholics are not simply traditional Latin Catholics with a fancy liturgy. If the OP’s spirituality is Eastern, going to the TLM will do him no good.

 

[bpbasilphx]

First off, there is no such thing as “the Eastern Rite.” There are some 22 sui juris Eastern Churches, representing some half-dozen Eastern liturgical traditions.

 

[Everyman]

Eastern Catholics are not simply traditional Latin Catholics with a fancy liturgy. If the OP’s spirituality is Eastern, going to the TLM will do him no good.

This is the truth. The last thing I want is to embrace traditonal Latin Catholcism. I’ve already been down that road and have since rejected it as built on the false ideology of a static faith.

But that aside (not trying to start a fight), Eastern Christianity is what I’m after not because of liturgy alone, but I also accept her theology.

 

[Everyman]

First off, there is no such thing as “the Eastern Rite.” There are some 22 sui juris Eastern Churches, representing some half-dozen Eastern liturgical traditions.

Well, thankfully everyone else knew what I was talking about.

 

[theistgal]

First off, there is no such thing as “the Eastern Rite.” There are some 22 sui juris Eastern Churches, representing some half-dozen Eastern liturgical traditions.

The only place in this thread where I see the words “Eastern Rite”, other than your post, is where water suggests the OP 1) move/drive to another town where there is an Eastern Rite..

No one other than you has used the phrase “the Eastern Rite”.

 

[water]

Why not? Giving up Sunday Mass isn’t suggested, merely adding to that some familiarity with another tradition.

I’d prefer not to be in the church where the teachings are not the same from where my faith is (even if it is slightly different).

 

[mardukm]

I’d prefer not to be in the church where the teachings are not the same from where my faith is (even if it is slightly different).

I believe just about the only difference an Eastern or Oriental Catholic will experience in an EO or OO DL or Mass is that he/she will not hear the names of Catholic hierarchs being commemorated. In all other things, an EC or OC attending an EO or OO DL or Mass will be spiritually fed (of course, if the sermon ends up being some kind of anti-Catholic tirade, I’d likely walk out of it).

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Everyman]

I’d prefer not to be in the church where the teachings are not the same from where my faith is (even if it is slightly different).

Although there was probably a time when I thought likewise, I’m glad to now say that I find that way of thinking incomprehensible. I could go into why, but that would be for another post altogether.

Thomas Merton once said something I find extremely helpful and especially relevant to this conversation: “If I don’t express the truth I have, or if I don’t listen to the truth you have, then there can be no truth between us.”

 

[Dempsey1919]

This is the truth. The last thing I want is to embrace traditonal Latin Catholcism. I’ve already been down that road and have since rejected it as built on the false ideology of a static faith.

You are equating traditional Catholicism with schismatic groups. This is wrong. By attending the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, you are not embracing any “false ideology” because your beliefs don’t change.

Attending a lawfully celebrated Tridentine Mass in full union with Rome is no different than attending a Pauline Mass or an Ambrosian Rite Mass.

Do not see preference for the more ancient form of the Mass as schismatic because it is not. In fact, Pope Benedict XVI loves this Mass.

 

[Everyman]

You are equating traditional Catholicism with schismatic groups. This is wrong. By attending the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, you are not embracing any “false ideology” because your beliefs don’t change.

Attending a lawfully celebrated Tridentine Mass in full union with Rome is no different than attending a Pauline Mass or an Ambrosian Rite Mass.

Do not see preference for the more ancient form of the Mass as schismatic because it is not. In fact, Pope Benedict XVI loves this Mass.

I don’t see it as schismatic, just undesirable.

 

[Dempsey1919]

I don’t see it as schismatic, just undesirable.

Why do you see it as undesirable?

Don’t forget that the Tridentine Mass was the normal Mass of the Roman rite for over 1000 years. We’ve only had the Missal of Paul VI since the 1970’s.

Sorry to hijack the thread about this but I’m just interested in your thoughts and opinions. I respect that you don’t like the EF of the Mass but I am interested in the reasons for this.

If you feel that God is calling you to the Eastern rites, I am sure he has good reason for doing so. Listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and he will guide you.

Just remember that you are not changing religion by doing this. You are simply expressing your faith differently.

 

[Everyman]

Why do you see it as undesirable?

Don’t forget that the Tridentine Mass was the normal Mass of the Roman rite for over 1000 years. We’ve only had the Missal of Paul VI since the 1970’s.

Sorry to hijack the thread about this but I’m just interested in your thoughts and opinions. I respect that you don’t like the EF of the Mass but I am interested in the reasons for this.

If you feel that God is calling you to the Eastern rites, I am sure he has good reason for doing so. Listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and he will guide you.

Just remember that you are not changing religion by doing this. You are simply expressing your faith differently.

I know all about the history. I used to even be a member of our local Una Voce chapter, a big supporter of Latin Mass revival. And all this is actually what turned me off of the Tridentine approach.

The fact that it was the Mass for so long no longer persuades me that we should now continue it. What if things need to change? I guess that’s what got me. Things that stay still become stagnant and static; things that move become vibrant and relevant.

I’m not suggesting a rejection of all things old. Far from it! I’m merely saying that where changes seem appropriate, or needed, it is in our best interest to institute such changes. I now think the Second Vatican Council did an excellent job of doing that (and I used to get very angry about many things regarding Vatican II).

If there are those who truly enjoy the Latin Mass, well then, let them have it. But in my experience, it nowadays tends to draw a certain type: a very conservative, straight-laced, fundamentalist literalist; I imagine if they were Protestants they would be King James-only fundie Baptists, either that or cold-hearted Calvinistic Presbyterians (both of which I’ve been apart of in my upbriging).

The bottom line is I changed. I approached the Catholic faith with a very literal, overly-conservative attitude, one fostered from my background. But through a series of shifts in my thinking – which were provoked through both studying and living – I have come to reject literal and fundamentalist renderings of any faith.

My primary influence was in becoming both an anarchist and a pacifist in the Catholic Worker tradition of Dorothy Day, Peter Maurin, Ammon Hennacy, Thomas Merton, and Daniel and Philip Berrigan. How this affected what we are talking about may not be all that obvious, but I can explain that sometime also if you wish.

So I already anticipate those who may criticize me in rejecting Tridentinism for Byzantinism as a distinction without an ideological difference. Both are ancient and beautiful in their own ways. But as I said in the beginning, I have come to find more kinship in Eastern approaches to several issues I hold dear.

 

[Dempsey1919]

The fact that it was the Mass for so long no longer persuades me that we should now continue it. What if things need to change? I guess that’s what got me. Things that stay still become stagnant and static; things that move become vibrant and relevant.

Divine Liturgy is just as ancient as the Tridentine Mass, perhaps even more so. The Masses of the Eastern rites can hardly be called modern.

Have you considered the Charismatic Renewal? Perhaps this is also an avenue you could consider.

Ultimately, I think you should pray to find out where God wants you to worship him. Find something you find truly uplifting. I hope all goes well for you in the Eastern Rites.

 

[Everyman]

Divine Liturgy is just as ancient as the Tridentine Mass, perhaps even more so. The Masses of the Eastern rites can hardly be called modern.

I thought I went out of my way to emphasize the fact that I understand that both are ancient. I know this. But all that is beside the point.

 

[OnlyAmbrose]

I thought I went out of my way to emphasize the fact that I understand that both are ancient. I know this. But all that is beside the point.

IMHO, you seem a little bitter about all things Latin… and it seems like you’re putting an inordinate amount of emphasis on HOW the Mass is celebrated. As long as it’s a valid Mass, it’s the same Eucharist and the same Christ, and whether it’s celebrated in Latin English or in the eastern rite, that is cause for joy, not bitterness.