Take a missal, pray along silently. That’s called internal participation! Many parishes will also have hand missals or other worship aids available so that you can follow along as the priest prays the Mass silently. There are very few responses to be made by the congregation, but they’ll also be in your missal and when you get comfortable with the sound of the Latin you can join in.
The way the phrase “active participation” was translated is misleading. The word active literally means (in the VII documents) an internal, spiritual involvement. Some people take it to mean prancing around and looking important (carrying up the money, lectoring, having many people distribute the Holy Eucharist, etc.). This is not what the phrase means
Not very many parishes (in my experience, for whatever that’s worth) use the Missa dialogata. It was, after all, invented around the 1920s, so you can’t count on finding it at the more Traditional parishes.
Great way of doing it at the TLM:thumbsup:
Why would it be untraditional to have a dialogue Mass?
It’s a traditional latin Mass approved by Rome… I guess I just don’t understand what you’re getting at.I just mean, those were changes that were introduced around the 1920s due to the idea that the congregation should have a more substantial role in the execution of the liturgy, a notion that many would attribute to Modernism, which was gaining speed at the same time. It’s definitely a novelty, since it has no legitimate basis in the Missal of Pius V or, as far as I know, in liturgical practice for the thousand years before Trent. It’s just that people didn’t like being excluded from virtually all of the responses (most notably, e.g., the Confiteor), so the Church shifted course and allowed the responses that had been the exclusive province and reserve of the sacred ministers for centuries to be opened up suddenly for all and sundry to say if they felt like it. So in a way it’s a TLM approved by Rome, but really it’s more of, well, an LM.Why would it be untraditional to have a dialogue Mass?
My condolences. In my experience, where the missal calls for silence, there is silence. Where it calls for responses, there are responses.
Don’t worry, no condolences are necessary!
The Mass sine dialogo sustained and nourished at least a millennium and a half’s worth of saints, martyrs, and doctors of the Church, so I think I can get by without. Besides, most of the time I assist at the OF anyway, so I get my fill of congregational responses.It’s definitely true that some traditional Catholics would prefer the Mass to be prayed the way it was for centuries, and other Catholics think it should be updated and modernized to give to the laity more and more of the functions that used to be reserved to the clergy. Whatever floats your boat, I guess, these days!
What sustained and nourished saints, martyrs and doctors since Pius V codified the so-called Tridentine Mass in 1570 was a succession of five typical editions of the Roman Missals before the 1962 Missal was promulgated by John XXIII. It was in effect when I served my first Mass in 1966. Without exception, my parish’s altar servers were responsible for every response that was preceded by the symbol “R:” in the Missal. Every student in my school, when attending Mass with their class, were also responsible for those responses.Don’t worry, no condolences are necessary!
And no one’s talking, I don’t think, about being “admonished” for saying the responses along with the sacred ministers, just that it’s not done. You couldn’t hear them in the first place, so it’d be pretty tough to try. But maybe this is more popular in other parts of the country or something, I don’t know.
It’s definitely true that some traditional Catholics would prefer the Mass to be prayed the way it was for centuries, and other Catholics think it should be updated and modernized to give to the laity more and more of the functions that used to be reserved to the clergy. Whatever floats your boat, I guess, these days!
That’s kind of a funny way of looking at it: “Hey, we’ve been doing it since the Swingin’ Sixties – that ages ago, dontcha know! – so by now it’s just as good as the Traditional way. Actually, it’s even better! Just a minor edit in the constant tinkering with the Missal.”
This is a very accurate statement, especially at traditional Masses (and even more so, parishes) in the United States. The dialogue innovation never took root there (or in Ireland). It wasn’t the norm throughout an entire country or region anywhere before the Council, but many revitalized parishes in France have adopted its use. Because of the huge French influence over the traditional movement, this became much more common in the US (by percentage of Masses using it) at the present day traditional Mass compared to the situation before the Council.
That is hilarious.
I think your comments regarding the dialogue Mass are spot on.The 1962 Missal is what it is: the official missal of the Extraordinary Form. It’s heritage can be traced to the 1570 Missal of Pius V. I’m not trying to convince or recruit you. I’m merely reporting my first-hand observations of the TLM before V2 and the EF after. I can assure that I know what to expect from Extraordinary Form Liturgies within 100 miles of my residence.
This is true. However, the 1962 Missal does not say that the congregation are to make the responses. The rubrics say Ministri respondent, The ministers respond. Permission was conceded by the Holy See in separate documents in the first half of the 1900s, but it never worked its way into the Missal.
Well, the “industry standard” these days is a run-of-the-mill OF. I’m talking about what it takes to celebrate the Mass as it was before the Modernist era. Obviously the whole thing will not be silent, although things like the prayers at the foot of the altar are not intended for the congregations ears and, unless you’re sitting really close, you shouldn’t be able to hear it.
I’m sure IntegraCatholic is right, and what you get in terms of the (T)LM will just have to depend on which parish you happen to walk into, resulting from the spread of various cultural innovations into this country in the last century.
Peace.
Can you sing?
Some Missals are designed with large margins which are filled explanations and ideas for how to join one’s prayers with the priest’s. I find that this style of Missal helps me to bring more understanding, attention and reverence to worship. I have a small red booklet that contains only the Ordinary of the Mass which is very good this way. You might also find it easier to use a booklet like this (especially if you attend TLM at a parish that gives the Proper of the Mass printed separately.) When I first started attending, I was a bit distracted by all the flipping between bookmarks using my big Missal.