How to prove that God actively works in the world?

[Photon_Man62]

I’m interested in arguments any of you would use to defend such a stance. Faith-related arguments (i.e. exorcisms, healing etc.) are okay, but I’m really after philosophical arguments. Linking to articles is also welcome.

 

[Drinkgasoline]

Very difficult. I’m also interested in this.

Some concepts to think about could be conscience, objective morality, answers to prayers or something along those lines… But I’m not really sure.

 

[JDaniel]

I’m interested in arguments any of you would use to defend such a stance. Faith-related arguments (i.e. exorcisms, healing etc.) are okay, but I’m really after philosophical arguments. Linking to articles is also welcome.

PhotonMan:

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forum.

The simplest way to argue that God actively works in the world is by the consideration of order. By “order” we mean not only the order we see in physical things, but also the order we see in non-physical things. Humans are so used to seeing order that we tend to take uncustomary notice when something goes out of order.

There will be those that may have a different view of order. Some will say that it is some sort of emergent property of nature, or the universe, whatever that means. Some may even deny order. But, sit in your chair for five minutes and look around you. Even more, sit in you chair and look around you for twenty-four hours. I think you’d concede that everything remained completely in order. Go out into the woods and look around. Go out into traffic. Measure radioactive decay.

If the world operated by chance, do we really think there would be any order, never mind this much order?

We live in a universe that is undergoing gradual entropy. Even so, order remains dominant. Either matter is doing it all by itself, or God is working in the world.

God bless,
jd

 

[thecone137]

I’m interested in arguments any of you would use to defend such a stance. Faith-related arguments (i.e. exorcisms, healing etc.) are okay, but I’m really after philosophical arguments. Linking to articles is also welcome.

I find the motion of elementary particles compelling.

What causes them to move in the first place?

Although, it has it’s flaws, the cosmological/first mover arguement seems to do a reasonable job of answering this question.

 

[jochoa]

I’m interested in arguments any of you would use to defend such a stance. Faith-related arguments (i.e. exorcisms, healing etc.) are okay, but I’m really after philosophical arguments. Linking to articles is also welcome.

Excellent question, my friend! Please consider the following personal concepts:

I define God as The person who is always freely being and spreading the means to freely be perfectly patient, kind, and motivated with all the body, spirit (memory of the person), thoughts, and will equally towards others and the self for the experience of limitless happiness with unbreakable peace.

Given this definition, with consideration of Teachings of the Catholic Faith: The Holy Spirit can be defined as a person who is freely being and spreading the means to freely be perfectly patient, kind, and motivated with all the body, spirit, thoughts, and will equally towards others and the self for the experience of limitless happiness with unbreakable peace.

Therefore, any instance any person in the world is freely being and spreading the means to freely be perfectly patient, kind, and motivated with all the body, spirit, thoughts, and will equally towards others and the self for the experience of limitless happiness with unbreakable peace, it is proof of God actively working in the world!

Thanks for the excellent food for thought! I look forward to further discussion!

 

[thecone137]

PhotonMan:

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forum.

The simplest way to argue that God actively works in the world is by the consideration of order. By “order” we mean not only the order we see in physical things, but also the order we see in non-physical things. Humans are so used to seeing order that we tend to take uncustomary notice when something goes out of order.

There will be those that may have a different view of order. Some will say that it is some sort of emergent property of nature, or the universe, whatever that means. Some may even deny order. But, sit in your chair for five minutes and look around you. Even more, sit in you chair and look around you for twenty-four hours. I think you’d concede that everything remained completely in order. Go out into the woods and look around. Go out into traffic. Measure radioactive decay.

I think some kinds of change are beyond the scope of our limited senses, so I don’t think just looking around will be a compelling arguement.

If the world operated by chance, do we really think there would be any order, never mind this much order?

It seems chance is just a way of saying “we don’t understand what causes so and so, so we’ll label it as this word until we figure it out”

 

[JDaniel]

I think some kinds of change are beyond the scope of our limited senses, so I don’t think just looking around will be a compelling arguement.

TC:

Do you think the world is not orderly?

It seems chance is just a way of saying “we don’t understand what causes so and so, so we’ll label it as this word until we figure it out”

Yes, that’s how Pierre-Simon Laplace viewed it. Summed up, one could say, “So-called chance” events differ from others only because the order involved is so complicated that we are ignorant of its details. And certainly, a mathematician dealing with probabilities could tend to view it that way.

St. Thomas, understanding the complexity of it viewed “chance” as an accidental collision of (at least) two separate lines of normal causation.

Some people, unfortunately, call something “chance” when it perhaps isn’t. But, certainly there are chance events in the universe.

God bless,
jd

 

[thecone137]

TC:

Do you think the world is not orderly?

If by order we mean one thing follows another in causality- absolutely.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I’m interested in arguments any of you would use to defend such a stance. Faith-related arguments (i.e. exorcisms, healing etc.) are okay, but I’m really after philosophical arguments. Linking to articles is also welcome.

The world is full of motion, change. All such demand a First Mover who is not changed and cannot be changed - God.

Things exist. Something must have caused them which was not itself Caused - God

Goodness exists in the world, everything is good in as far as they exist. Something which is Goodness itself must have caused this goodness - God

The things in the universe may be or not be. Only that which exists by necessity can account for the existence of things which can be or not be - God

The things that exist in the universe do not possess all possible existence in themselves individually or collectively. What exists in a limited way owes its existence to something which possesses all possible existence and is thus Pure Existence - God

Beauty and order are present in every existing thing and in all the movements of the universe, both in the Macro universe and in the nano universe. There must be a source of all beauty which is absolute Beauty - God

There exists a being in the universe which possesses the faculty to appreciate all forms and degrees of beauty. Such a faculty is not needed in a purely material universe. This faculty is therefore is a gift by an entity that wants man to appreciate beauty to draw him to Itself - God.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

The world is full of motion, change. All such demand a First Mover who is not changed and cannot be changed - God.

Things exist. Something must have caused them which was not itself Caused - God

Goodness exists in the world, everything is good in as far as they exist. Something which is Goodness itself must have caused this goodness - God

The things in the universe may be or not be. Only that which exists by necessity can account for the existence of things which can be or not be - God

The things that exist in the universe do not possess all possible existence in themselves individually or collectively. What exists in a limited way owes its existence to something which possesses all possible existence and is thus Pure Existence - God

Beauty and order are present in every existing thing and in all the movements of the universe, both in the Macro universe and in the nano universe. There must be a source of all beauty which is absolute Beauty - God

There exists a being in the universe which possesses the faculty to appreciate all forms and degrees of beauty. Such a faculty is not needed in a purely material universe. This faculty is therefore is a gift by an entity that wants man to appreciate beauty to draw him to Itself - God.

Forgot. All men have a conscience which warns them about right and wrong and condemns them if they choose to do wrong. Where did conscience come from, why do we have it? Conscience could be in us only because it was placed there by a Being who wants us to be good - God

 

[bitterreality]

I’m interested in arguments any of you would use to defend such a stance. Faith-related arguments (i.e. exorcisms, healing etc.) are okay, but I’m really after philosophical arguments. Linking to articles is also welcome.

Come up with at least one proof which doesn’t need to be proven. There’s no way anyone (e.g. atheist) can disagree with you if you can do that. That’s the key. Guaranteed!

 

[JDaniel]

If by order we mean one thing follows another in causality- absolutely.

TC:

Perfect, so do I. I must have mis-read you. Sorry.

God bless,
jd