No, capital punishment and abortion are not the same.
One is evil, the other is not of itself evil.
How to re-educate so that people will understand about abortion?
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One is evil, the other is not of itself evil.
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WillieWonka
Guest
Polls show an interesting difference between personal belief and the willingness to impose personal belief on others. Many people who personally reject abortion believe the choice should be left to the mother. So, they wouldn’t have an abortion, but they oppose making them illegal.
The entire population falls somewhere along a nine month gestation continuum beginning with day 0 and ending with birthday. Some oppose it beginning at day 0. Others oppose it after 30 days, others 40 days, others first trimester, others second trimester, others never.
(Yes, I could also write the above para saying some favor it up to 30 days, others favor it up to 40 days…)
If I can find a poll, I’ll link it.
It has human DNA, it is alive, but it is only part of a larger organism.
Well, that ‘if’ is a scenario that has a lot more involved then that.
I couldn’t answer as it is not reality.
One may ask as easily what if this circle were a square?
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WillieWonka
Guest
- Well, a fertilized egg in a petri dish is an independent single cell organism. It can be kept alive in that dish. So can a skin cell in the next door petri dish. Both are amazing pieces of work.
- I agree cloning from a skin cell is very complex, and I’m not qualified to explain how the biologists intend to do it. However, they have taken many steps along that path, and are working on that very thing. DNA from skin cells is what is used in cloning today. The dogs and sheep are running around. Does anyone doubt cloned humans will be joining them soon? Reasonable people can discuss plausible advances before thay are upon us.
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Drawmack
Guest
So, you’re pro-deserving-life then?
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limerick
Guest
**How far would you go to “educate”? Give pre-adolescents information about correct use of a condom? Explain all the various methods of artificial birth control? Or tell these kids that a blastocyst is a baby?
Limerick**
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allhers
Guest
Is a poll like that suppose to impress me?
To me that is like saying, I personally oppose murdering babies but I wouldn’t mind if someone else murdered their baby, afterall, its their choice.
Do you see how ridiclous that sounds?
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allhers
Guest
The education I was speaking of pertained to the earlier sites that I posted. Telling people the truth works.
Why in the world would I want to speak to a pre-adolescent about condoms? I think that kind of so called “education” that the likes of which planned parenthood started is what caused all this **** to begin with. When I was 14 one of my friends went to p.p. and she believed all the lies they were telling her. I on the other hand, listened to my parents and the Nuns and Priests and stayed chase, it was pretty simple really-just tell the guy NO. It worked for me.
Sometimes they even listened to why I was telling them NO, and they got an education on the virtue of staying chaste before Marriage, some respected me for that, some thought I was from another planet, just like some people today. It really doesn’t take a lot to stay chaste before Marriage, all it takes is the truth about God’s law verses mans law.
About all anyone needs to know about artificial birth control is that most of them contain a drug that kills the life that is trying to attach to the womb, or blocks in some way, the sperm. Abortion kills that life after the baby has sucessfully attached.
God wants us to remain open to life in Marriage and chaste outside of Marriage.
Pretty basic and simple, just tell the truth.
People act like they are afraid to tell the truth, its sinful, so why not tell it like it is?
Unrepented lesser sins lead to greater sins. If a person is having thoughts about being unchaste, all they need to do is go and confess that, God’s grace helps us through times like that. Some people never think of confessing until after they have sinned gravely, (mortally), you can confess lesser sins too. (venial)
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allhers
Guest
Thanks for the prayers. He would be 31 this year.
While its true that I never had an abortion, I did have three live births.
I do understand your point though, I just don’t think its a very good one.
As for the proper usage of language and brackets, (thanks for the tip on sqare brackets though, I had forgotten about that.) My point wasn’t to point out your spelling, but that it was quite a slip there, thats all.
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Sean_Boyle
Guest
I believe that abortion is really a human rights issue. Some people seek to deign human rights to a segment of the population for what ever the reason…
Because of peoples beliefs along those same lines we as a human race have had to endure slavery in America, and the holocaust in Europe. Since 1972 we have had to endure another holocaust in this country, that so called “right to choose” is really the right for us the privilaged to decide who deserves lives and who is not human.
See history does repeat itself…
sadly!!!
Because of peoples beliefs along those same lines we as a human race have had to endure slavery in America, and the holocaust in Europe. Since 1972 we have had to endure another holocaust in this country, that so called “right to choose” is really the right for us the privilaged to decide who deserves lives and who is not human.
See history does repeat itself…
sadly!!!
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Drawmack
Guest
I’m happy to hear that you have three healthy children.
I have a daughter that I gave up for adoption 15 years ago. This experience has taught me two things. First, time does not heal all wounds. Second, choosing life is always better than choosing death.
I was 19 when she was put up for adoption and I was an atheist. Believe me, abortion was definitely an option. However, we opted to have the baby and put it up for adoption instead. I am very glad I did. I put this story to good use.
I work with pregnant teenage girls working to convince them to choose life. I rail against the language that is used in this debate because I see these girls come in so confused and so hardened because of the language that they are just completely lost. I hear them quote so called pro-life writings that use words like baby killer, murderer, pro-death, etc. and say I don’t see how someone who speaks to another person like that can claim to be respecting life. I hear them quote so called pro-life writings that make false analogies claiming that choosing abortion is as easy as choosing a soft drink and they say if these people are going to take my situation so lightly then I don’t see why I should listen to them. So, I speak against saying these types of things.
Then I’m told that I’m the one who is wrong. I’m told that I’m not really pro-life (this hasn’t happened in this thread but it has happened before on these message boards). I’m told that the language isn’t offensive because it’s true. yadda yadda yadda.
You know something though. This is a thread about educating people on abortion. I’m telling you that I do educate people about abortion, and not just anyone but I’m actually working with pregnant women to try and save their babies lives and this type of language is hurting the cause of this education. People cannot successfully educate people with this type of language. People can argue with me all they want. But you know something, the blood isn’t on my hands when these women won’t listen to me because of having been inundated with this type of derogatory literature.
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WillieWonka
Guest
No, it’s not intended to impress you. I mention it to observe there is a large difference between people’s personal participation in abortion and their willingness to impose their personal beliefs on others. And if they are not willing to impose their own views on the population, they are probably even less willing to impose someone else’s views on the population. This indicates people really do see the question as an issue of personal choice. If I were interested in re-educating people, I’d be interested in both their personal and social views.
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Drawmack
Guest
That’s a good point Willie. Before I can explain why someone is wrong, I have to know what they believe. And, before I can learn what they believe I’ve got to get them to talk to me long enough to tell me.
Is this fictional fertilized egg you speak of human?
If so, then it deserves life.
There are reasons the Catholic Church is against fetal stem cell research.
This is one.
Not when they do not understand the advance.
In this case, neither of us has the working knowledge necessary to discuss the ethics thereof.
However, the current understanding of cloning involves usage of an egg that has had the DNA removed and a different set put in…maybe.
In which case, attempting to clone a human would involve destruction of human life, and should be disallowed.
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allhers
Guest
Exactly!!
This is from another post on this site. Fr. Frank Pavone said it:
Unfortunately, we can say about abortion:
All the wars ever fought,
All the holocausts ever perpetrated,
All the plagues that ever raged,
All the bombs that ever dropped,
All the famines that ever laid waste to the land, put together, have not killed the number of human beings wiped out by abortion.
He went on to say…“And yet, hope endures, because God’s grace abounds, even amidst such devastation”.
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allhers
Guest
Not just disallowed, I believe we call it gravely evil.
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allhers
Guest
The blood is on the hands of those who help them make the choice to abort. Those who lie to them and don’t give them the facts!
I’ve always believed that adoption is a loving option!!
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WillieWonka
Guest
Well, I think the process of fertilization and gestation is a very complex process. However, I haven’t noticed any hesitation in discussing it. There are all kinds of things about which we lack a working knowledge. But we still discuss them. Anyone here conversant with nuclear physics? I’m not, but I still feel competent to discuss nuclear war. I guess it’s a personal decision.
The host egg is unfertilized, so there is no destruction involved. The nucleus of the egg is removed, donor material including DNA is inserted, an electrical stimulus is applied, and - voila- Dolly the Sheep.
The destruction of life people identify is the subsequent destruction of the cloned organism when it is used as a stem cell factory.
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WillieWonka
Guest
Would the cloned human have an immortal soul? If so, wouldn’t that mean God was involved in the process? How could he participate in grave evil? On the other hand, maybe the cloned human would be soulless.
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