P
PRmerger
Guest
Atheism is the response to this question: does God exist
with this answer: no
- Status
with this answer: no
N
NM505StKate
Guest
F
fisherman_carl
Guest
More of an intuition based on what he said. But, it seems we will never know whether i was right or not. I am more interested in how you define atheism. What is your world view? To me atheism is a philosophical system. It is a way to view the world around you and it comes with its own set of assumptions and beliefs about the world. It means more than just saying that the supernatural does not exist. Because it holds a materialistic view of the universe. It says nothing but the matter exists. So it is a reductionist philosophy. It’s not just a denial of the supernatural but it also seems to claim that only the physical material world exists.
Atheism has a number of consequences as well. It seems to lead to a fatalist view. Since if your mind is nothing more than chemical reactions then free will is an illusion. And love is also an illusion if it is nothing more than chemicals. Yet, in our every day lives we experience making choices. And we experience love as more than a chemical reaction. So it does not fit with our everyday experience.
In addition, even some atheists will admit that the universe seems designed. So it goes against what intuitively seems to be true. Do you believe that intelligence created the universe or that the universe created intelligence? It doesn’t seem to me that we can arrive at intelligence without an intelligence to begin with.
What is your view of Christianity?
P
PRmerger
Guest
Indeed.
One such consequence is the problem of evil.
There is no explanation an atheist can give to a child for why evil exists.
“It just does, son. And there’s no justice. In the end, suffering wins.”
What a hopeless response to the very important question.
R
Russell_SA
Guest
As a philosophical naturalist, I’ve continued to post about the example of gravity waves. Einstein mathematically predicted that gravity waves should exist. That would be the same as you version of a logical conclusion. Next step… since we could not run any tests to falsify that conclusion about reality, we did not teach that gravity waves existed in reality until we detected them in 2015. Where is your test to falsify your logical conclusions about the supernatural? Until you have that falsifiable test, it stays on the chalk board as a possible idea along with all the other possible ideas. It’s not ever once to be taught as a causation until it’s falsifiable. The only way you could be justified in logical conclusions without running falsifiable tests in reality is to know everything about reality. That’s how I see it. Logical conclusions are only logical by your current understanding about reality. Like A1=A2 if all you know about the experience of A1 is 3 identities and the experience of A2 is the same 3 identities. However, as we learn and grow, maybe later down the road we learn that the experience of A2 is actually now 9 truths. See, that’s how you are able to falsify a logical argument that is making claims about reality. You have to test for it. You can be logically correct and still factually wrong though. Besides, anything that is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
R
Russell_SA
Guest
I don’t think this example works. Would it be better to say that give evidence that god is from the realm of the supernatural, so it would be supernaturalian? But there is still not evidence of a deity or the realm of the supernatural. Go find that evidence, present it to the world, win all the accolades of changing the understanding of reality. There’s plenty of positive social feedback to inspire every scientist out there to attempt this. But…I guess it’s a huge conspiracy that once you put on a lab coat, you get indoctrinated into intentionally hiding that evidence.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Yes. This is very Catholic.
P
PRmerger
Guest
So you’re saying you won’t believe in anything that can’t be falsified?
R
Russell_SA
Guest
I am not ok with proclamations that infringe in the realm of science about reality that are not falsifiable.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Well, belief in God doesn’t infringe on the realm of science, so why would it have to meet the criterion of falsifiability?
And I’m certain that you believe many things–many!–which can’t be falsified, so one has to wonder why this demand exists for belief in God…
R
Russell_SA
Guest
Now I’ll assume you do not believe in Thor or Zeus correct? Because you don’t believe that Thor or Zeus exist, why are you mad at Thor or Zeus? See how absurd that comes across?
Atheism is the conclusion one reaches after someone has presented their reasons for why they believe in a deity. That is all. It’s a position on a single question about a single issue. It has no world views, tenants, leaders, etc. I’ll give the example of jar A with marbles, jar B with nothing, and jar C with supernatural transcendent marbles. Now someone presents jar A to me and claims that they believe it has an even amount of marbles. I ask them how they came to that conclusion and I do not believe their process is sufficient enough to come to that conclusion. By rejecting their conclusion does this mean I now believe that there is an odd number of marbles in the jar? No, no it does not. All I have done is look at the situation and determine that their process for coming to that conclusion is not sufficient to me to reach that. That is it. That’s really all an atheist is. They do not believe your conclusion about claiming that there are even marbles is justified. Now try to get a world view from that, a political view, anything else. You can’t. It’s not possible. Now the religious community is presenting to me jar C, the jar with supernatural transcendent marbles. But every single time I try to see how it is any different that jar B with nothing in it, I conclude that there is no difference. So the default position is that jar B and jar C have nothing in them until adequate data is presented where I could tell a difference.
R
Russell_SA
Guest
Whether or not supernaturalism exists does not factor into my happiness. Just as there are Australians and the continent of Australia in reality, their existence and it’s existence does not factor into my happiness. I can choose to go to Australia to live and create relationships and find a happy life. However, I can not go to the supernatural realm and knock on the gates now can I? It is up to the supernatural creatures to reach out to me. I can’t control that. Every single time I’ve attempted the process that religious people say is the way to contact the other side, the answer has always been nothing but white noise. So I’ve ran that experiment, nothing happened, so I’m going on with my life interacting with reality as I understand it. It’s now on the shoulders of the ghost realm to reach out to me now, and I’ve yet to experience anything. So if it’s not wanting to, that’s not my problem. Also, the existence of the supernatural realm has yet to come across as any different that someone’s imagined land of Narnia. So I can be happy and sad when I read those books, but I’m not upset that Aslan doesn’t actually exist in reality.
W
Wesrock
Guest
Please show me a falsifiable test that proves my experiences are causally related to an external world. I am concerned that accepting any such test as valid requires first assuming that there is a causal relationship already, thus making it a circular argument.
R
Russell_SA
Guest
I fundamentally disagree with you here. I find that religion teaches people that they are broken and then offers them the fix. I find that insulting that the idea of just being human is to be broken from the day we are born. I’m happy and all the other colors of emotion. Reality is enough for me to be happy without having to invent myths about how it actually works. I am an insignificant tiny piece of carbon in the grand scheme of things, but I get to still love the people in my life and that’s enough for me. I don’t worry about death because I do not believe that I will be aware that I will be dead, just as I was not aware of life before I was born. The limited time that I have makes this life precious and I need to make it better for everyone here because, so far, this is the only planet we have and the only life we get.
R
Russell_SA
Guest
I can’t have a relationship with people that don’t come into my life. Just as a friend claiming to have a girlfriend in the next town over that no one ever runs into. We all know what it takes for a relationship to be successful, so why is your god choosing to not talk to me? I can’t talk to it, so the fact that it appears to not want a relationship is not my problem. Just as the girl in the next town doesn’t want a relationship with me. If your devil knows your deity exists and still chooses not to have a relationship with it, then that’s fine. But why can’t I have the same evidence that your devil has first before deciding to hang out with this deity or not? You deity is coming across as just not there at all. I don’t know why the religious people can’t accept this when I say that is my experience.
Belief isn’t a choice by the way. It’s the conclusion one reaches when the data is presented. Go sit in a chair and then choose to believe you are not sitting in a chair. You can’t. It’s not possible. You can lie to people about your experience, but you’d know that is what you are doing. So believe me when I say there has yet to be any evidence for the existence of the supernatural, just as if you were trying to argue for the existence of chairs in a reality where the idea of chairs comes across as no different than nothing at all.
W
Wesrock
Guest
You see a balloon rising. Is that sufficient evidence to conclude, at least with reasonable certainty, that the contents of the balloon are “lighter” (or less dense) than the air outside of it?
R
Russell_SA
Guest
Then why does your deity never heal amputees? What’s the difference between a rare event and a miracle? Cancer can go into remission by the way. If there are all these miracles out there, do you really believe there is a scientific conspiracy to hide that common phenomenon? There is enough positive social feedback and resources in the vadican to pay for the studies to look at all these miracle claims and to present their findings to the scientific community. Where’s the Nobel prize for this research? I am not looking for absolute knowledge, just justified causal links.
R
Russell_SA
Guest
Thanks for your point of view, but I’m still fine with mine. Enjoy all the medical advances, social equality, engineering successes, all the enjoyments of reality that humans have created to expand our life expectancy, comforts of abundant resources, internet to talk to people outside of our bubbles, etc. that all came about without a deity’s involvement.
R
Russell_SA
Guest
Atheism is a lack of believe, to have yet be convinced that there is a supernatural realm of reality. They are not making the positive claims that there is no supernatural realm. Just as if someone stated they believe the jar of marbles has an even number but offers no justified explanation to reach that conclusion that you agree with. Their reason may justify it for them, but not for you. Now because you do not believe that they are correct in concluding that there are an even number of marbles in the jar, does NOT mean you believe there is an odd number of marbles in the jar.
R
Russell_SA
Guest
Please see response number 138
- Status