How to respond to a lapsed catholic who says the Church's teachings are antiquated?

[RosslynV]

This lapsed catholic’s basic argument is that Catholicism was good in the Middle Ages, but now in the 21st century, its teachings have to get with the times.

 

[marywarfield]

This lapsed catholic’s basic argument is that Catholicism was good in the Middle Ages, but now in the 21st century, its teachings have to get with the times.

It makes no sense. If Christ’s words are timeless
and eternal how does someone attach a time frame
to limit them?

 

[grasscutter]

I sometimes wonder if people said the same thing in the 12th century (for example). I bet some did.

I find it strange that people would be so enamoured of themselves, their intellect and their “progress” that they don’t think it’s odd at all to expect God to change and conform His teachings for them.

I alternately find that kind of hubris hysterically funny and deeply scary.

 

[SoulSolace]

Jesus gave his truth for all time.
He didn’t say he’d be back every few hundred years to update us.
He did however give the Hierarchy of the Church the ability to state doctrine for us.
Therefore, I trust the Church that Jesus established to tell me/teach me the Truth.

How can it be any other way?

 

[lax16]

This lapsed catholic’s basic argument is that Catholicism was good in the Middle Ages, but now in the 21st century, its teachings have to get with the times.

I recently had a Jewish family member (who is leaning towards atheism) tell me the same thing. I told him not to worry that were thousands of churches that have kept up with the times and that he could find one to suit his needs.

I said for those who want a church that will never change and will always stand for the Truth, the Catholic Church is the answer.

That pretty much ended that conversation - on a positive note!

 

[marywarfield]

I recently had a Jewish family member (who is leaning towards atheism) tell me the same thing. I told him not to worry that were thousands of churches that have kept up with the times and that he could find one to suit his needs.

I said for those who want a church that will never change and will always stand for the Truth, the Catholic Church is the answer.

That pretty much ended that conversation - on a positive note!

The Jews are antiquated or the Jews think Catholics are
antiquated? Either way that’s funny as heck!

 

[agnes_therese]

I recently had a Jewish family member (who is leaning towards atheism) tell me the same thing. I told him not to worry that were thousands of churches that have kept up with the times and that he could find one to suit his needs.

I said for those who want a church that will never change and will always stand for the Truth, the Catholic Church is the answer.

That pretty much ended that conversation - on a positive note!

Great answer!
If I get the opportunity, I’m totally going to steal it from you.

 

[the_phoenix]

I recently had a Jewish family member (who is leaning towards atheism) tell me the same thing. I told him not to worry that were thousands of churches that have kept up with the times and that he could find one to suit his needs.

I said for those who want a church that will never change and will always stand for the Truth, the Catholic Church is the answer.

That pretty much ended that conversation - on a positive note!

 

[glendab]

Yeah and God is Eternal and not subject to change. Might that be why the Church herself is so changeless in some regards - to imitate her Creator?

You could refer your friend to the term Ancient of Days found in Daniel and try to help them see the changeless beauty that is contained in the Church through art. Although the exact method of expressing our religion in art has changed greatly through the centuries, it still conveys an unchanging message.

If your friend sincerely thinks that any church should change according to the desires of those who attended, then you friends isn’t seeking that which is Eternal, but as so many do, is looking for a place to go to feel good about religion and socialize with similar minded individuals and have a good time feeling good about religion. It is also to some a form of entertainment and their expectations of a “worship service” is to be entertained and amused for an hour.

Give up words and just pray and offer sacrifices for them and try again some other day. If things are good and a person has no problems, they tend to forget about God. Then trouble comes and they begin seeking His help. Perhaps your friend will turn to Him for help when things get rough. It isn’t the best reason to turn to God, but it has been very effective through the centuries.

Glenda

 

[SuperLuigi]

Arguments like that are nothing new and represent shallow, linear thinking.

When people say “get with the times” it means go on selfish binge and endorse whatever feels good or is popular right now. In other words, do the opposite of what Christ wants.

They tend to think they’ve gotten around this by bleating about “helping” others, namely the poor, when in fact they actually end up making things worse.

A lot of people who say what your friend says thinks that this is all new and special. It isn’t; in fact, a lot of it is the same old recycled garbage.

Pick your favorite issue.

So-called gay “marriage”? Happened in Rome to some extent. And there’s probably been homosexual acts as long as there have been humans.

Abortion? That’s nothing new. Was around long before Planned Parenthood.

Technology? There’s old Inca buildings better suited for earthquakes than many modern Spanish structures. The Romans actually invented concrete, but it wasn’t rediscovered until the 19th Century.

Your friend thinks too linearly. As many historical scholars point out, civilizations move more in cycles. Some progressives like to think the more time passes, the more modern and progressive the world gets. It’s a false idea reinforced by media fiction.

There’s nothing special or unique about he/she says.

Traditions in many cases exist for a reason: because they have been proven to be a workable solution.

 

[MaryT777]

Jesus gave his truth for all time.
He didn’t say he’d be back every few hundred years to update us.
He did however give the Hierarchy of the Church the ability to state doctrine for us.
Therefore, I trust the Church that Jesus established to tell me/teach me the Truth.

How can it be any other way?

Well said.
Mary.

 

[Nelka]

I hear Protestants talk like this, they say that their church must change to get more young people interested.

If they are not interested in worshipping Christ it won’t matter which secular changes are made they still won’t want to worship Him.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Tell them they are espousing 2500 year old thinking and are deplorably behind the times by saying, “Get with the times,” since “Nothing endures but change” was all the rage in “antiquated” thinking 2500 years ago.

Πάντα ῥεῖ
-Heraclitus (circa 500 BCE)

 

[tvknight415]

I like to say back, “When did God change his mind?” The Church is here to teach men about God and his promise of salvation. If God said 2000 years ago that homosexuality was wrong, for the church to get with the times, it means somewhere along the way He would have had to decide homosexuality was ok

 

[Linz202]

This lapsed catholic’s basic argument is that Catholicism was good in the Middle Ages, but now in the 21st century, its teachings have to get with the times.

Hi, this comes up from time to time. At the recent RE congress in LA, Fr Robert Barron gave a great talk which I’ve watched and think may be useful to you indirectly. There’s a few grew lines in there that I think address your lapsed Catholic friend’s argument.

I have a website linked to my podcast series, if you click below you’ll find the show notes to our latest episode, scroll down to the Fr Robert Barron and I’m sure you will hear what you are looking for.

whatthefaith.net/2014/03/23/episode-6-is-here/

God Bless

 

[Missian_Alyssa]

2+2=5 or the old classic 2+2=4

Which would you use when making change?

 

[PJM]

=RosslynV;11825487]This lapsed catholic’s basic argument is that Catholicism was good in the Middle Ages, but now in the 21st century, its teachings have to get with the times.

Look, we must understand God alone can convert someone.

Memorize** Mt. 16; 18-19 ** "And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon[YOU] this rock I will build my church, [SINGULAR] and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee [all OF] **the keys of the kingdom of heaven. **And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

Binding and Loosening here mean “UNLIMITED POWERS OF GOVERNANCE”; ANSWERABLE TO ONLY GOD HIMSELF

a second point is that “the Church” is ONLY doing what Christ Ordains. The Church does not invent these positions; they ARE GODS!

One True God
Can logically and Morally Have ONLY One set of Faith beliefs
& Founded only His One Church: todays Catholic Church

One CANNOT be just a’ a little bit catholic" anymore than one can be just a :little bit pregnant. Either you ARE; or your NOT:thumbsup:

PRAY for them

 

[mexolic]

It’s interesting that a “lapsed Catholic” would say that the church’s teachings are antiquated. If a person chooses to be a lapsed Catholic, why then say that the Catholic Church’s teachings are antiquated? Perhaps one of the main reasons one chooses to be "lapsed’ is due to they’re lack of understanding of the faith. It’s been mentioned here before on CAF that many people are poorly catechised. Therefore someone lacking knowledge of the church’s teachings would say such things.

 

[PJM]

=mexolic;11847185]It’s interesting that a “lapsed Catholic” would say that the church’s teachings are antiquated. If a person chooses to be a lapsed Catholic, why then say that the Catholic Church’s teachings are antiquated? Perhaps one of the main reasons one chooses to be "lapsed’ is due to they’re lack of understanding of the faith. It’s been mentioned here before on CAF that many people are poorly catechised. Therefore someone lacking knowledge of the church’s teachings would say such things.

two critical points:

[1] There is but One TRUe God

Who can and DOES hold only One [His own’ Faith as entrusted to Peter who HOLDS ALL of the Keys to heavens access [John 17:18 & John 20:21] confirm this, as does Mt 28:18-20]

And Founded only One Church to hold the keys to heaven and TEACH what He taught them. [Mt. 16:15-19; Mk.16: 14-15 & Mt. 28:16-20 & John 17:14-20]

Eph. 4:2-7 " With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. One body and one Spirit; [MEANS ONE CHURCH AND FAITH] as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith,[ONLY ONE SET OF FAITH BELIEFS] one baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all. But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of Christ.**** [BUT ONE MUST BE WALKING WITH GOD TO GRASP THIS TEACHING!]**

Now as for that persons thoughts on antiquated Teaching: HE’S RIGHT; WERE 2,000 YEARS OLD AND STILL TEACHING GOD’S TRUTH.

This person would be prudent to READ Heb 6:2-8 [applies to those who choose to be apostolics] " Of the doctrine of baptisms, and imposition of hands, and of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible** [W/O repentance and Sacramental Confession] **for those who were once illuminated,[BAPTIZED] have tasted also the heavenly gift,[CATHOLIC HOLY COMMUNION] and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SACRAMENTAL CONFIRMATION] Have moreover tasted the good word of God, [BEEN RIGHTLY INSTRUCTED BY MASS HOMILIES] and the powers of the world to come, And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery. For the earth that drinketh in the rain which cometh often upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is tilled, receiveth blessing from God. But that which bringeth forth thorns and briers, is reprobate, and very near unto a curse, whose end is to be burnt.
LlET US PRAY FOR SUCH SOULS!

 

[Tous_Logous]

This lapsed catholic’s basic argument is that Catholicism was good in the Middle Ages, but now in the 21st century, its teachings have to get with the times.

Technically the response of the lapsed Catholic is erroneous; there’s no such thing as the “Dark Ages.” People in the Middle Ages (if we’re specifically speaking of Europe) were advanced in that they had understandings of mathematics (how else did we build those cathedrals and castles?), science (descriptions of the natural world, sewage systems, basic geology), education (universities, book-copying), theology, health (battlefield surgery, medicine, hospitals, even knowledge of quarantine), technology (siege weapons, siege warfare, more complex machinery) etc.

If anything saying that the “Catholic Church is out of date” goes against the teachings of Jesus, which are timeless. The Catholic Church is just as good now as any other point in history. How can the Church during the Middle Ages be outdated if nearly all the things she has contributed to society are now (and still) entirely prevalent in our society?

In other words this individual is stating “My lifestyle does not agree with the Church, therefore the Church should adapt to fit my lifestyle and materialism.” We see it all too often.