How to respond to SSPX followers

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Personally, I wish this weren’t so hyped up.

It only gives those opposed to any reconciliation more time to dig in their heels, so to speak.

And let’s not pretend everyone is praying for such reconciliation. Enough already downplayed the lifting of the excommunications and allowance of confessions to be heard.
Bishop Fellay gets it from both sides.

He has those in the Church that don’t want the SSPX back, and he has those in the SSPX ranks and chapel pews that don’t want to go back.

He has to do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may. Surely he knows that the SSPX can’t stay in an irregular situation much longer.
 
Don’t know why people would oppose reconciliation. If the SSPX is ready to submit to the Pope and accept V-II why would anyone not want them reunified to the Catholic Church?
What if Pope Francis does not make the SSPX reject all their issues with Vatican II? What if Pope Francis just grants the SSPX canonical status based on the basis of their “good faith and sacramental practice” along with a willingness to work together and walk together on our mutual journey? This is Pope Francis.
 
Bishop Fellay gets it from both sides.

He has those in the Church that don’t want the SSPX back, and he has those in the SSPX ranks and chapel pews that don’t want to go back.

He has to do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may. Surely he knows that the SSPX can’t stay in an irregular situation much longer.
Yeah the analogy that SSPX is on the fence seems apt. They as an organization have to fall on one side or another eventually as sitting teetering on the fence is not a long term solution. However I suspect depending on which way they go there will be a split regardless inside SSPX. If they rejoin the RCC some will want to hold fast to what they still see as their objections to RCC theology and will effectively become another protestant/sedevacantist type group (assuming they don’t just join one of the existing groups in that vein. If SSPX leaves for good, I’m sure you will have some who will jump ship back to the RCC individually be it to the Church at large or groups like FSSP or ICRSP inside the Church proper.
 
Bishop Fellay gets it from both sides.

He has those in the Church that don’t want the SSPX back, and he has those in the SSPX ranks and chapel pews that don’t want to go back.

He has to do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may. Surely he knows that the SSPX can’t stay in an irregular situation much longer.
As I’ve stated before, he may be the only one who ends up in full communion. Okay maybe the suspensions of a few priests may be lifted along with it. Come to think of it, though, that would be better than nothing.
 
What if Pope Francis does not make the SSPX reject all their issues with Vatican II? What if Pope Francis just grants the SSPX canonical status based on the basis of their “good faith and sacramental practice” along with a willingness to work together and walk together on our mutual journey? This is Pope Francis.
You’re asking the wrong guy. As an Anglican that’s one of the hallmarks of my Church is doing almost exactly that (agreeing to walk together despite differences), so I’ve no issue with it personally. 😃

That said, as long as they’re submitting themselves to the Pope… I mean I’m sure it’s a simplistic view I’m about to expound, but FSSP for example accepted V-II on paper, but in practice they do seem to hold pretty fast to Pre V-II ideals and teaching from what I’ve seen personally. As long as SSPX does the same would they be that different from some of the other more traditional groups?
 
Surely he knows that the SSPX can’t stay in an irregular situation much longer.
I am curious as to why you say this.

I remember in 1976 it was said that surely the archbishop would not remain in the condition he was in – it was horrifying for a member of the college of bishops to act after having been publicly rebuked by the Vicar of Christ…and then to be stripped of his priestly faculties. The archbishop simply continued his illicit ordinations and all of his other illicit actions, until he died.

What do you see that is more pressing now than 10, 20 or 30 years ago?

I think their current status seems to suit their purpose very well.
 
That said, as long as they’re submitting themselves to the Pope… I mean I’m sure it’s a simplistic view I’m about to expound, but FSSP for example accepted V-II on paper, but in practice they do seem to hold pretty fast to Pre V-II ideals and teaching from what I’ve seen personally. As long as SSPX does the same would they be that different from some of the other more traditional groups?
There is a fair amount of truth in what you say. However the main issue seems to me to be that if you talk to any priest from the FSSP they accept the validity of the Novus Ordo. It is not the form of Mass they would choose to celebrate, but they do genuinely believe that the Novus Ordo can be celebrated reverently (even though this is not always the case). I’m not sure that the same can be said for many priests in the SSPX.

If Bishop Fellay was able to move somewhat on the view of the Novus Ordo, it might not require much movement, just an admission that it is valid, and that SSPX priests should not discourage Catholics from attending Novus Ordo Masses, then that might be enough to begin the process or even enough for Pope Francis to grant them full faculties. We can always hope and pray.
 
I am curious as to why you say this.

I remember in 1976 it was said that surely the archbishop would not remain in the condition he was in – it was horrifying for a member of the college of bishops to act after having been publicly rebuked by the Vicar of Christ…and then to be stripped of his priestly faculties. The archbishop simply continued his illicit ordinations and all of his other illicit actions, until he died.

What do you see that is more pressing now than 10, 20 or 30 years ago?

I think their current status seems to suit their purpose very well.
I do not remember where I read it, but I think Bishop Fellay has already said that they can’t stay indefinitely as they are.

The SSPX of today is not the same as they once were. They’ve toned down considerably.
 
Given some of the public comments they have made about the Pope, it is highly likely that as a group, as a whole, they will not.

That obviously does not preclude some from coming back in. Will the group splinter? I don’t follow them closely, but reports seem to indicate there have been several splinters already.

It is more than a bit difficult to “un-say” publicly made comments. It is a bit akin to trying to dig one’s way out of a hole by getting a bigger shovel…
 
The SSPX of today is not the same as they once were. They’ve toned down considerably.
I ask in ignorance because I’m far too young to remember the situation of the SSPX decades ago: is it merely that the SSPX has toned down their rhetoric, or is it that the Church hierarchy is slowly becoming more accepting of Her own traditions and patrimony again? If the SSPX has toned down, I imagine a lot of it has to do with some Church leaders (especially but not at all limited to Pope Benedict) taking their side of things more seriously.
 
I do not remember where I read it, but I think Bishop Fellay has already said that they can’t stay indefinitely as they are.

The SSPX of today is not the same as they once were. They’ve toned down considerably.
Oh, I can well imagine that he said that they can’t stay indefinitely as they are. All else being equal, they will have to ordain more bishops within the next 20 years, which will bring us back to 1988 all over again. Of course, I doubt the Polish National Catholic Church, at its inception, foresaw that it would continue and evolve over many decades either.

I am glad to know you at least have the experience of a toned down SSPX…I could not say that at all.
 
I ask in ignorance because I’m far too young to remember the situation of the SSPX decades ago: is it merely that the SSPX has toned down their rhetoric, or is it that the Church hierarchy is slowly becoming more accepting of Her own traditions and patrimony again? If the SSPX has toned down, I imagine a lot of it has to do with some Church leaders (especially but not at all limited to Pope Benedict) taking their side of things more seriously.
They’ve definitely toned down. A lot. I was there when they were quite vehement and a lot more militant. They’re not the same today as they once were.

Some may not want to admit it, but they have taken steps towards reconciliation. Little by little. Why do you think that the laity in their pews are so upset and going off to start “resistance” chapels?
 
They’ve definitely toned down. A lot. I was there when they were quite vehement and a lot more militant. They’re not the same today as they once were.

Some may not want to admit it, but they have taken steps towards reconciliation. Little by little. Why do you think that the laity in their pews are so upset and going off to start “resistance” chapels?
Resistance Chapels?
 
As an aside, I imagine that if I were Bishop Fellay that my optimism would be cautious. I know that he desires the Society’s situation to be regularized, but knowing how things went down between Rome and the Franciscans of the Immaculate (who as a whole offered both OF and EF Masses, but got called out by some folks for supposedly forcing the EF on people, and were suspended from the use of the EF in spite of Summorum Pontificum)… I would imagine that in light of that situation he and the clergy of the society would be a little afraid of losing their autonomy.

I truly believe that for Christian unity to be successfully pursued, we need to achieve Catholic unity first. Christ said that a house divided against itself shall not stand. But he also said that the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church. I do not believe that either HH Pope Francis or Bishop Fellay are working for the gates of Hell, but for the liberty and exaltation of Holy Mother Church, and I take great hope in that in spite of everything.
 
There are other unreconciled Catholic groups besides the SSPX that have remained unreconciled for a long time. For example, a splinter group that formed in the 19th century after the Pope made Papal Infallibility an official dogma of the Church. So, there’s really nothing that says the SSPX won’t remain non-canonical until the sun explodes. In fact, you can guarantee with virtually 100% certainty that this will be the case. Do you think that if the SSPX Bishops and Rome are reconciled, that every SSPX priest is going to jump on board in compliance? More and more priests of the SSPX weren’t even ordained when the excommunication occurred, and have operated with fictional sacraments and illicit Masses during the entirety of their office. Some priests will be reconciled, others will not be.

Even if, in the optimistic scenario that Bishop Fellay does submit to Rome (personally I think that’s wishful thinking, but I’m not a seer, so I entrust this hope to God) the hardship of reconciling the SSPX chapels has only just begun. The priests of the SSPX have been giving people fictional sacraments in disobedience to Rome. These priests need Confession, badly, but even if a reconciliation occurred, I doubt they’re going to see a need for it. They’re going to be just in their own eyes. The catechisis of SSPX chapels (many of which I’m assuming would become diocesan parishes) is going to of course need to be in conformity with Magisterial teaching. The de facto parishioners themselves aren’t going to mystically change their views if there is a reconciliation with Rome. So these problems will remain. Then again, it’s not as though disobedience weren’t already common within the canonical Church, so clergy & laymen will simply labor through it as best as they are able just like with any other parish. The SSPX just happen to be loaded with those that have heterodox views in a conservative sense, rather than a liberal one.

There is absolutely no chance Pope Francis would ever simply let the SSPX in if they are going to remain doctrinally apart. These dialogues with Rome need to continue and bear fruit if a reconciliation is ever to occur. The Catholic Church - like Christ - desires unity, not make-believe unity. If you sign a document that says “we’re reconciled” and yet there is doctrinal discord, then the document is a piece of paper with ink on it that means absolutely nothing, except that you now have a wayward Society that is canonical versus a wayward Society that is non-canonical. If I have never touched the inside of a car in my life, and I print out a certificate that says “Mechanic”, it doesn’t mean that I am a mechanic. It means I have a piece of paper that says I’m a mechanic. If it was just a matter of making the SSPX canonical, St JPII could have done it in a heartbeat. He just could have said, “The bishop ordained other bishops without approval. Oh well.” and immediately lifted their excommunications and granted them canonical status. He obviously wouldn’t do that, and neither will any other Pope.
 
They’ve definitely toned down. A lot. I was there when they were quite vehement and a lot more militant. They’re not the same today as they once were.

Some may not want to admit it, but they have taken steps towards reconciliation. Little by little. Why do you think that the laity in their pews are so upset and going off to start “resistance” chapels?
No doubt - I only mean to say that it is possible some of the vehemence and militancy has toned down because they feel less “persecuted” (for lack of a better word) by the Church hierarchy. Again, I’m young, but I remember having tons of priests (I moved a lot) in the 90s and early 2000s that would never have dreamed of tapping into the spiritual and liturgical patrimony of what we now call “traditional Catholicism.” In the last few years, however, I’ve had quite a few that have been at least open to it, and in some cases embracing of it. That’s anecdotal, of course, but if I attended an SSPX parish I would find this to be a positive movement in the Church. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s at least some of the reason the vehemence and militancy that you speak of has toned down.
 
Resistance Chapels?
A handful of priests and laity say Bishop Fellay isn’t being true to Archbishop Lefebvre, and they don’t want any part of “going home to Rome.” So they went off to start what they call “The Resistance.” :o
 
A handful of priests and laity say Bishop Fellay isn’t being true to Archbishop Lefebvre, and they don’t want any part of “going home to Rome.” So they went off to start what they call “The Resistance.” :o
Wow ok, so if they have no intention of ever going back to Rome, doesn’t that make them in fact modern day Protestants?
 
Wow ok, so if they have no intention of ever going back to Rome, doesn’t that make them in fact modern day Protestants?
It’s not that they don’t want to ever go back, but they won’t go back until the Church returns to the traditional faith and practices.
 
It’s not that they don’t want to ever go back, but they won’t go back until the Church returns to the traditional faith and practices.
Well since the Church is unchanging in the faith (ie: the faith didn’t change per se during Vatican II)… And it has brought back the old practices…

What exactly are they waiting for? The elimination of the OF?
 
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