How to Respond to the Cross-Dressing Man at Mass?

vz71

Well-known member

As far as discussion goes, this could be a target rich environment.

So...what say you?

I personally feel for the priest caught in the situation. It is very often difficult to know the conscience of the person presenting for communion.
But then, regardless of the intent, what of the scandal created for the others in attendance, particularly those with young children that are now going to ask questions the parents probably wanted to hold on until they are the proper age.
 
I am actually of two minds about this. Unless one wishes to invoke Deuteronomy 22:5, it is hard to see where the intrinsic evil of this lies. Someone dressing in this manner isn't hurting anyone, and, taken all by itself, there is no sin against the Sixth or Ninth Commandments. And what of women who dress in what more conservative people would regard as "men's dress"? There are women who are never seen in anything but loose sweatshirts and blue jeans, and wear their hair very short (which is not necessarily unattractive or even unfeminine, some women can pull it off better than others). FWIW, my son (18) wears his hair all the way down his back. I might prefer that he didn't, but of all the things that could keep the father of an 18-year-old young man up at night, this is pretty low on the list.

And then there was Ralph Monroe (Mary Grace Canfield) on Green Acres.
 
it is hard to see where the intrinsic evil of this lies.
I would think the evil is more in the lie they are trying to perpetuate as opposed to the clothes they are wearing.
what of women who dress in what more conservative people would regard as "men's dress"? There are women who are never seen in anything but loose sweatshirts and blue jeans, and wear their hair very short (which is not necessarily unattractive or even unfeminine, some women can pull it off better than others).
I think there is a big difference between what you describe and an obvious man wearing a dress.
But I do understand you have framed well what I believe is a slippery slope. Where exactly is the line?
Of course, that one cannot define the precise line is not a reason to allow something that is obviously wrong.
FWIW, my son (18) wears his hair all the way down his back. I might prefer that he didn't, but of all the things that could keep the father of an 18-year-old young man up at night, this is pretty low on the list.
Indeed. My son's both wore their hair way too long. Just one of the things I can look back on. We used to do a monthly trip to the barber and get our hair "short, no sideburns, off the ears". When they got into their later teens, they stopped the monthly with dad in favor of their own thing.
One now has their head almost shaved (the Navy will do that); the other is still enjoying longer hair (at least until Navel OCS).

And then there was Ralph Monroe (Mary Grace Canfield) on Green Acres.
My question here...is the TV show playing up laughs or are they trying to portray something that occurs with regularity?
Or worse, something the TV producers want to occur regularly?

All that said, my first impression here is my sticking point. It is a lie.
The difficulty is that is many cases, the individual has a real disorder, and the medical community has told them their only treatment is this lie.

So, is our cross-dressing church attendee intending to scandalize and lie...or have they been lied to themselves and are unaware of the truth?
 
I would think the evil is more in the lie they are trying to perpetuate as opposed to the clothes they are wearing.
Exactly, but people perpetuate other "lies" in their lives, and bring those to Mass with them, such as living in invalid non-marriages, yet asserting to society that they are indeed "married". In that case, if they are normal, healthy, reasonably young people, they are invariably committing either fornication or adultery. Someone wearing dress that is regarded by society as the province of the opposite gender is only doing just that, cross-dressing. They haven't necessarily taken the patently immoral step of receiving mutilative surgery (which cannot easily be reversed) or taking medication to make them somewhat seem to be the opposite gender (which can be discontinued but remains sinful as long as they are taking it).

I think there is a big difference between what you describe and an obvious man wearing a dress.
But I do understand you have framed well what I believe is a slippery slope. Where exactly is the line?
Of course, that one cannot define the precise line is not a reason to allow something that is obviously wrong.
There is indeed a difference, and in our times, society has generally agreed that a woman may wear traditionally "male" clothing with no aspersions necessarily cast upon her sexuality, whereas traditionally "female" clothing worn by a male still calls matters into question and is treated with disgust by many. There are also cultural considerations. In Scotland, men wear kilts, at least in a formal or ceremonial setting, and these are held to be very masculine, yet they are essentially pleated skirts. And in earlier centuries, some men wore powdered wigs and, I believe, even a flavor of makeup.

My question here...is the TV show playing up laughs or are they trying to portray something that occurs with regularity?
Or worse, something the TV producers want to occur regularly?
Dressing as the opposite gender, for whatever reason, has been played for laughs throughout the TV era. In addition to "Ralph" Monroe (Green Acres was a disbelief-suspending, quirky show with an abundance of in-jokes, and nobody thought Ralph was actually a man), and there was Corporal Klinger on MASH, who dressed in drag to try and get a Section 8, his sexuality was never at question. And let's not forget Milton Berle, whose sexuality was never at question either, far from it. There were also entire movies and TV series devoted to the theme, such as Some Like It Hot and Bosom Buddies.

All that said, my first impression here is my sticking point. It is a lie.
The difficulty is that is many cases, the individual has a real disorder, and the medical community has told them their only treatment is this lie.

So, is our cross-dressing church attendee intending to scandalize and lie...or have they been lied to themselves and are unaware of the truth?
Hard to say. In many cases, a cross-dressing man is still very obviously a male. If he has crossed the Rubicon of actually having his body modified (which can be very convincing these days), that's another story entirely.

I hope nobody thinks I am favoring men doing this, I just don't wish to make any more of cross-dressing, taken all by itself, than it actually is. It would probably be seen as more acceptable in cosmopolitan urban areas, than in the small towns of the heartland.
 
Exactly, but people perpetuate other "lies" in their lives, and bring those to Mass with them, such as living in invalid non-marriages, yet asserting to society that they are indeed "married".
Most lies are hidden.
Someone going to receive may or may not have a guilty conscience.
An obvious man wearing a dress...is obviously and very actively perpetuating a lie.

The question is if they know they are or if they honestly believe this is a legitimate treatment for their ills.
If he has crossed the Rubicon of actually having his body modified (which can be very convincing these days), that's another story entirely.
Another set of questions my daughter is too young to be asking.

You know, I am told Mormons have to dress in robes when they attend services.
Maybe they are onto something.
 
The Register doesn’t name the diocese where this occurred, but I expect the pastor will have asked his Bishop to advise him on how to handle the situation if it should happen a second time.

Presumably the cross-dressing male is being deliberately provocative. If he is denied communion or challenged in any way, he may see that as the signal to stage a carefully rehearsed temper tantrum, to achieve the maximum disruptive effect on other people’s worship. The priest obviously needs to proceed with caution.
 
I think it is just an opinion piece on a possible scenario.
A Register contributor named Christian Brugger appears to be answering a reader’s letter that begins with the words, “I was recently at a Mass ...”
Do Register contributors habitually make up fake readers’ letters like that? Would that even be ethical?
 
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