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curious_cath
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But He saved the adulterous woman!
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rose321
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Respectfully opinion only >>>Point them to one of the greatest Prophet Jeremiah 8:8 repeated also 3 more times within Scripture. <<<<<Jesus being fully aware and identifying them even. You are the children of the father of Lies for a reason right?
God Spoke, Spoken since beginning of time to those He choose directly as His Prophets, Men/Woman, He choose to serve Him >>>
Jesus Motto was >>I am the Way, The Truth and The Life, Follow me. Not what one reads Jesus was preaching, teaching about>>>>>> but what one >> hears! >>>>>>>>Let your ears hear what the Holy Spirit speaks.
Nor did Jesus preach on all those 613 Laws did he, of Moses why? Know also Jesus met with Moses/Elijah also on the mount, did he not?
But Jesus preached on all the>>Thou shall not’s!! Sermon on the Mount taught also by Moses?
God does not transgress His own laws does HE? Would he not be a liar?
One has to know His Spoken Word, who is speaking when>>to know who is not of Him, right?
How to respond as we are taught by our Pope, who within His Homilies>> gives us instruction to> Practice Tolerance toward them.
Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Suggestion only maybe tell them to look up The Prophet Jeremiah 8:8 and the other verses stating the same?
And if they are truly interested in attaining such knowledge, understanding to what they lack in maybe>>> kindly >>>>direct them to a Priest or Bishop or tell them to write to the Pope, or ask the Highly Learned within the Church teaching for a>> Book that gives further understanding to, maybe?
Peace
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goout
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There is no smoking gun for abiogenesis, but there are promising lines of research.Russell_SA:
We don’t have any evidence as to how non- living matter became living matter.
I believe it is intellectually dishonest to say that abiogenesis happened naturally, if you do not have the evidence that it did. Science needs to be fair and open to all possibilities, otherwise it can become the biased view, and that will not help scientific advancement.
Hey, God is God, and however he likes to do things is fine with me.
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Agathon
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I literally addressed that several posts ago.
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Russell_SA
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What is the track record of claiming that divine was the cause of our unknown experienced reality and we discovered that to actually be the case? zero, nada, nothing, ziltch.
What is the track record of a natural solution being the answer to our unknown problems? 100%
You missed a point I was making there. Science is not bias to the supernatural as a responce. Just the supernatural has not been demonstrated to exist, so its not allowed to be part of the response until you can demonstrate that it exists at all in the first place. Just like unicorn magic is not allowed to a solution because it has not been demonstrated to exist. We only look for solutions to our unknown problems by looking down the pathways we know exist in this reality. Once we can go no further we say, We don’t know. We don’t invent magic to solve the unknown.
Want your deity to be a solution to anything, demonstrate it exists first.
What is the track record of a natural solution being the answer to our unknown problems? 100%
You missed a point I was making there. Science is not bias to the supernatural as a responce. Just the supernatural has not been demonstrated to exist, so its not allowed to be part of the response until you can demonstrate that it exists at all in the first place. Just like unicorn magic is not allowed to a solution because it has not been demonstrated to exist. We only look for solutions to our unknown problems by looking down the pathways we know exist in this reality. Once we can go no further we say, We don’t know. We don’t invent magic to solve the unknown.
Want your deity to be a solution to anything, demonstrate it exists first.
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Russell_SA
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can you demonstrate your claim is any different than just an assertion?
How can you possibly know this to actually be the case?
We can demonstrate how emotions change based on drugs, damaging the brain, etc.
So far, the only evidence of the source of emotions is a functioning brain.
What is your data for your assertion? I can demonstrate mine.
How can you possibly know this to actually be the case?
We can demonstrate how emotions change based on drugs, damaging the brain, etc.
So far, the only evidence of the source of emotions is a functioning brain.
What is your data for your assertion? I can demonstrate mine.
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curious_cath
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Are you being funny? The love of God heals. Now, brain can also heal itself in a way. So do you think the 2 things are the same?
Is this some kind of sour joke? Do you have any data showing that the genetics of our Lord Jesus was human or divine?
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Russell_SA
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The love of god heals? Is this just a mantra you chant? You don’t seem to understand what it means to demonstrate your assertions for explanations about observations in reality. Please demonstrate that healing is connected to divine intervention. I can demonstrate how brains affect our observed emotional states. Your’s is an assertion, mine is testable to anyone.
Bill Cosby - Do you seriously not understand the difference between being genetically related and having someone forced upon you? The later being a violation to a woman. Yes it was an off-color comment, but the logical conclusion still stands.
Bill Cosby - Do you seriously not understand the difference between being genetically related and having someone forced upon you? The later being a violation to a woman. Yes it was an off-color comment, but the logical conclusion still stands.
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curious_cath
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Of course it does! But you have to be a believer, otherwise you can’t benefit from it. Here is your trap: remain a non-believer and you won’t ever experience of understand to healing power of God’s love. Or give up your arrogance and overzealous pride in yourself and become a believer to share in the love of God. That is exactly what you are incapable to do!
Oh boy, you must know very well the depths of the misery of a self-reduced way of life, my friend. You can blame only yourself for truncating your brain activities to the measurable. As if there would be nothing beyond that… Now, collect your data at once that you want to demonstrate. Please!
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ericc
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Track record?
The claim was made 3000-4000 years ago by the Hebrews that the current reality , this world, was created by God. 3000-4000 years ago, science made no claims.
How life came into the universe? God 100%. Natural solution? guesses infinity.
Personal encounters are empirical evidences right? Millions of people have reported such experiences in the history of man. Science have not figure out how to record them. Inability of current tools to record them does not mean it is not real, just not recordable. If science is not bias and claims of being objective, then it should claim the supernatural is not recordable by current scientific tools and full stop. Science shouldn’t make pronouncements of things it doesn’t know as being unreal. When physical theorists theorizes the existence of certain sub atomic particles even before the invention of equipment sensitive to measure them, no one calls them in derogatory terms.
Will science ever advance to such levels of detecting the supernatural, perhaps, but it will be too late for some atheists. Can the supernatural be deduced? Yes. For example Marian Apparitions seen by multiple eyewitnesses. Exorcisms may reveal un-explainable behavior and revelation of hidden knowledge. Should scientists pursue such knowledge? Who would ever want to finance such a venture that provides no economic gains other than self satisfaction?
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Russell_SA
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As I understand it, belief is not a choice. Its the results/conclusion of assessing reality as you understand it. Example: A + B = C. A and B are just data about reality. The “+” and “=” is your applied logic to that experience. The “C” is just the conclusion/belief of that experience. Go sit in a chair, then choose to believe you are not sitting in a chair. You can lie to everyone else about your pronounced belief about this experience and claim you are not sitting in a chair, but you can not lie to yourself. You also can not choose to believe you are not sitting in a chair. That is what reality has presented to you. You believe you are sitting in a chair based on what reality has presented. That is why I do not believe “belief” is a choice. I have no choice but to currently hold that I do not believe that the supernatural exists at all. I don’t know what would change my mind on this but your deity should know. So it is either choosing not to present that information to me or can not. Either way not my problem since there is nothing I can do about this.
Belief that your deity exists is different than wanting a relationship with it as well. I just want to know if it exists in the first place. Then after having a conversation with it, I will then choose to engage in a relationship with it. Just like meeting a random stranger at the bar. I don’t have a hardened heart if I claim that person does not exist if I don’t ever see any evidence that they were there. Once I can engage the person, then I will assess their character to see if I want this person in my life or not. Kind of hard to have a relationship with someone that keeps ducking out every time I walk into this bar. Your deity is playing the best game of hide and go seek with me. So well in fact, that it’s coming across as not existing at all.
My arrogance? See there is nothing your deity can do that would make you break away from it. It’s coming across as not existing to me at all and its on me? Sorry but I can’t go investigate the supernatural realm at all but your deity can come to our realm. So the responsibility is on it for creating a relationship and revealing it exists to me. We all know what it means to be in a relationship with someone and that it is impossible to have a relationship with someone that does not appear to exist at all. If your deity wants me to believe in it before there is a justified reason to believe in it, then it does not understand what it is to be human or how to communicate effectively with us.
Belief that your deity exists is different than wanting a relationship with it as well. I just want to know if it exists in the first place. Then after having a conversation with it, I will then choose to engage in a relationship with it. Just like meeting a random stranger at the bar. I don’t have a hardened heart if I claim that person does not exist if I don’t ever see any evidence that they were there. Once I can engage the person, then I will assess their character to see if I want this person in my life or not. Kind of hard to have a relationship with someone that keeps ducking out every time I walk into this bar. Your deity is playing the best game of hide and go seek with me. So well in fact, that it’s coming across as not existing at all.
My arrogance? See there is nothing your deity can do that would make you break away from it. It’s coming across as not existing to me at all and its on me? Sorry but I can’t go investigate the supernatural realm at all but your deity can come to our realm. So the responsibility is on it for creating a relationship and revealing it exists to me. We all know what it means to be in a relationship with someone and that it is impossible to have a relationship with someone that does not appear to exist at all. If your deity wants me to believe in it before there is a justified reason to believe in it, then it does not understand what it is to be human or how to communicate effectively with us.
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Russell_SA
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Do you really think that scientists have not run every cultural practice to manifest the supernatural? They have and still had zero results. They have also brought in people claiming to be of faith and tested their ability to channel the supernatural in a detectable way and still found nothing. Prayer fails, supernatural healing fails, every testable claim of channeling the supernatural has failed. If prayer works, then pray to your deity to so that it will tell you what to say to me that would convince me that it exists. It should know right? You have that relationship right? So is it my fault for being an atheist if every representative of this deity kept presenting bad reasons to believe in it and thus kept reinforcing why I should not believe it exists and why I would want a relationship with it if it did exist?
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Russell_SA
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Science makes no claims about the supernatural other than it is indistinguishable from an imagined idea. Until we can demonstrate a way to tell the difference, people and entire cultures can make pronouncements all they want. Does not make it true. How many 4 year olds can we get together and talk about santa. Does that make santa true? People can have an experience, but their explanation does not immediately follow that their explanation is actually the correct explanation for the event. Just like presents found under the christmas tree and eaten cookies is not a justified reason to explain the existence of santa. Pronouncements that are untestable are just that, pronouncements.
Inability of current tools to justify your claim does not make your claim justified to hold as a true understanding of reality. Example: Einstein mathematically/logically concluded that gravity waves should exist. Did we start teaching this as fact of reality? No, no we did not. Not until we developed the tools for detecting the gravity waves and then finally detecting them in 2015 did we start teaching Gravity Waves are actually part of reality. Just like in the periodic table, we have empty holes for where there appears to be missing elements. Our logic to that process is telling us where to start looking for them, but until they are actually detected, we do not teach that these missing elements are actually part of reality. Science stops where we are no longer justified in our conclusions about reality. That is the honest approach. The religious do not have this teaching apparently, which is intellectually dishonest to me.
Inability of current tools to justify your claim does not make your claim justified to hold as a true understanding of reality. Example: Einstein mathematically/logically concluded that gravity waves should exist. Did we start teaching this as fact of reality? No, no we did not. Not until we developed the tools for detecting the gravity waves and then finally detecting them in 2015 did we start teaching Gravity Waves are actually part of reality. Just like in the periodic table, we have empty holes for where there appears to be missing elements. Our logic to that process is telling us where to start looking for them, but until they are actually detected, we do not teach that these missing elements are actually part of reality. Science stops where we are no longer justified in our conclusions about reality. That is the honest approach. The religious do not have this teaching apparently, which is intellectually dishonest to me.
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curious_cath
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Sure, you want to dictate. But it is not working like that. You make an impression as someone who hungers and thirsts for God incognito, without admitting. You want Him to come into your life to prove Himself and offer you a relation.
As your example in a bar, it is like a lady with good manners sitting alone and imagining a popular guy is coming in. When he does, the lady pretends the guy is not there, but in fact she hopes the guy will come to her and introduce himself. There is nothing wrong with this, this is the right attitude to feel.
But the guy has no business with the lady, unless there is an interest expressed. This interest is what you also need to express. It is called prayer. When you pray, you express your interest for God to come to you so that you can see Him. Otherwise it is not His business. It turns on you if you want to have any business with God or not. Some people need God, they are dependent on Him. These people are called believers.
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curious_cath
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Look it is not my goal to convince you that God exists. It might be your goal that I convince you, but I won’t. Thanks.
What you call supernatural might not be what you think it is. A prayer may invigorate your immune cells in a way that you cannot do without prayer. You call the resulting healing supernatural, but it actually came through your existing immune cells and system. So is it truly supernatural? Or only the way you can “program” your immune cells to invigorate them through prayer is somehow inaccessible to atheists?
Buddhists are able to get healed by meditation. Is it supernatural or not for you? Are you a Buddhist?
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ericc
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We are not talking 4 year olds here discussing Santa. These are supernatural encounters reported by credible adults. By a wave of the scientific hand suddenly all these become imaginary? Does it make them all untrue? Aren’t personal encounters empirical in nature? If you accept empirical sightings, then all the more to refrain by proclaiming these are imaginary.
Did the scientific community dismiss Einstein as deluded? Did they ban him from publishing his theories? No they didn’t. The honest approach then is to admit that science does not have what it takes , currently, to detect, analyse, measure the supernatural. The lack of tools did not deter them to continue to theorize the existence of the unknown. Lack of knowledge has never deter Science from kicking the bucket further down the lane for unexplained phenomena. Where is then your unbias towards supernatural events? The bias is real so just come out and admit it rather than trying to do a PR job.
The difference between gravity waves vs supernatural is that gravitational waves were theorized whereas supernatural are empirical encounters. Empirical encounters are not imaginary nor unreal. For persons who have experienced the supernatural, it is not a matter of real or unreal. It is real unlike theories.
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Russell_SA
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I am a person that wants to know reality for how it actually is, not how someone else has imagined it to be. Since the more true things about reality I know, the better off I am, regardless of how I feel about these true things. I am just curious about your claim about reality. Just like I would be curious about any claim someone is making. That’s called being human. You deity has to come into my life since I can not go to it in any way. Just like someone in Australia that wants a relationship with me and I have no idea that they exist at all. It’s on them to let me know they first exist and then their character. Ok I’m done talking about what it takes to have a relationship with someone. You are coming across as not knowing how to form a basic relationship with someone and that’s just absurd for us to have to have this conversation. It’s a waste of my time to talk about how this works since you know how this works and the readers know how this works. Moving on.
Stop making examples that are not a realistic example of the exact scenario I have presented. There is no girl in the bar when I get there. There is no one for that guy to walk up and talk to. That is the example. Stop this stupidity. I can walk up to the chair that the religious is claiming the girl is sitting in and wave my hands around the empty space where she is supposed to occupy, I can hand the chair a drink and see if its held by an invisible hand, I can do everything I can think of and try the things the religious are doing and still it’s just an empty chair every time. Why can you not grasp this? How many times do I have to explain to you that your deity is exactly no different than an empty sack you are handing me every time?
Stop making examples that are not a realistic example of the exact scenario I have presented. There is no girl in the bar when I get there. There is no one for that guy to walk up and talk to. That is the example. Stop this stupidity. I can walk up to the chair that the religious is claiming the girl is sitting in and wave my hands around the empty space where she is supposed to occupy, I can hand the chair a drink and see if its held by an invisible hand, I can do everything I can think of and try the things the religious are doing and still it’s just an empty chair every time. Why can you not grasp this? How many times do I have to explain to you that your deity is exactly no different than an empty sack you are handing me every time?
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Russell_SA
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Your deity is not presenting itself as anything different than an empty sack. So not my problem that it looks like an empty sack. If she is using you to be the representative for it, it’s doing a poor job. Tell her she needs to do better.
Okay have these buddhists perform this action under scientific studies so we can see what is going on. There might be something here or not. I’m fine learning about how to biohack the human body. But that is not to be applied to the term “supernatural”. Stop trying to broaden the term “supernatural” to something so vague that it looses its meaning. Natural healing, is just called that, natural healing.
Okay have these buddhists perform this action under scientific studies so we can see what is going on. There might be something here or not. I’m fine learning about how to biohack the human body. But that is not to be applied to the term “supernatural”. Stop trying to broaden the term “supernatural” to something so vague that it looses its meaning. Natural healing, is just called that, natural healing.
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Russell_SA
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Age of the people experiencing something is irrelevant. The adults are experiencing an event just like the children are experiencing the event. Sorry but getting older does not mean you have learned how to think about your experiences. We have adults who claim to have been abducted by aliens as well. Should we believe their story? All we can justifiably conclude is that these people believe they have experienced something. But their explanation is not to be a justified conclusion to hold above any other conclusion until we can demonstrate what happened.
Personal encounters are empirical in nature only to the person experiencing it, to everyone else it is hearsay unless we can repeat the experience for ourselves. So I’m fine with you claiming you have an empirical experience with a deity, but I am not fine believing that was what actually happened since we can not conclude that your experience is any different than an active imagination.
Scientific community did not dismiss Einstein because his logical conclusions were about the known reality. He didn’t bring in additional information from the beyond, from Hogwarts to make his conclusions work out. Then we would dismiss his conclusions since Hogwarts is not been established to exist. Okay seriously, why do I have to point this out. Fair minded readers, this is a perfect example of the grasping of straws that the religious community does to people and how they think, or rather can’t think about these concepts. Any further examples you use where you think A + B = C is the same as A + B + Magic = C are the same examples to give will be ignored. This is a waste of my time to address these absurdities.
Personal encounters are empirical in nature only to the person experiencing it, to everyone else it is hearsay unless we can repeat the experience for ourselves. So I’m fine with you claiming you have an empirical experience with a deity, but I am not fine believing that was what actually happened since we can not conclude that your experience is any different than an active imagination.
Scientific community did not dismiss Einstein because his logical conclusions were about the known reality. He didn’t bring in additional information from the beyond, from Hogwarts to make his conclusions work out. Then we would dismiss his conclusions since Hogwarts is not been established to exist. Okay seriously, why do I have to point this out. Fair minded readers, this is a perfect example of the grasping of straws that the religious community does to people and how they think, or rather can’t think about these concepts. Any further examples you use where you think A + B = C is the same as A + B + Magic = C are the same examples to give will be ignored. This is a waste of my time to address these absurdities.
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Eric_Hyom
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And to the same fair minded people, we show our love for God by the way we treat our neighbours, especially the poor and oppressed. We are to treat them as if they are God.
Mathew 25
34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
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