How to respond to those who call God a mass murderer?

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curious_cath said:
The question is not if a mass murderer can be a saint or not. Hell yes, he can! We see that in Elijah. The question is how do you relate to this fact. I personally dislike it. But if you like a mass murderer, it is your prerogative to do so. If Elijah was not a mass murderer, then why does the Bible write about his act as a fact?
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I may have missed it, but have you proven that Elijah is a mass murderer? Murder as in unlawful killing? In war, we don’t hear of mass murdering. Nor when capital punishment has been meted out, nor when abortion was performed. So when the atomic bomb was dropped, was the pilot who dropped the bomb a mass murderer? So when drones were used by the US to shut some people up in lands far away, do we call the generals mass murderers? Why not?
 
Yes, God IS merciful! Thank you. He is merciful to me, a sinner. He cannot be a sinner, He can’t violate his own commandment! It is me who is a sinner, not God. It is the prophet Elijah who is a mass murderer, not God.
 
curious_cath said:
These priests were the worst kind of Catholics you can ever imagine.
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Wow. Quite a rash judgement. You might want to give this a bit more study. War is to be avoided, but, there are times in this fallen world when it is necessary.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a5.htm#2307

2309 The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
  • the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
  • all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
  • there must be serious prospects of success;
  • the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the “just war” doctrine.

The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

2310 Public authorities, in this case, have the right and duty to impose on citizens the obligations necessary for national defense.

Those who are sworn to serve their country in the armed forces are servants of the security and freedom of nations. If they carry out their duty honorably, they truly contribute to the common good of the nation and the maintenance of peace.107
 
If I understand this passage correctly, the whole Bible must be understood in the light of the paschal mystery. Jesus showed us in the paschal mystery that we don’t need to take away the life of anybody when God himself would die for us in Jesus. So killing is not only sin and murder but the same time absolutely futile, as well!

The Old Testament manifests how deeply corrupt mankind is when we have to kill and murder to satisfy our dark hunger for blood. We see on the pages of the Bible that man would kill for the fun of it, completely unnecessarily in a self-destructive manner. We only need God as a reference point when we kill. We needed Jesus, the King of Glory, to die on the cross in voluntary self-sacrifice so that we recognize what we made of God on the pages of the Old Testament for our own purposes!

We made God an accessory of our own murderous imagination. God had to devise a hard core pedagogy in the Bible to teach us who He is not! He is so different from that image. He is a loving God shown to us in Jesus. We could grasp the paschal mystery of the Son of God only after we have learned to yearn for the truthfulness of God in Jesus. Yes, we have to learn to abandon a false image of God that was created for men for men’s purposes. We have to learn to embrace the true God who is not a sinner, but a Savior! This is God’s pedagogy.
 
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This is when you accept the concept of righteous war. But what if you don’t? What if you take God’s command ‘not to kill’ seriously while you see the suffering of Jesus in everyone’s eyes who die, especially in those whom you wanna kill?
 
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That is why I trust that the Holy Catholic Church was established by Christ. I believe that Christ did not leave us to wander about trying to figure it out on our own. Eventually, we each have to trust something as true.
 
The actual translation is “You shall not murder.” It doesn’t allow for instances where killing is actually a viable option like self defense or capital punishment. God Himself instituted the death penalty when He said, “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.”
In Romans 13, it says, “For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.”
 
Those priests were hardly innocent. They killed the prophets of God and were agents of the wicked queen Jezebel.
 
curious_cath said:
Yes, priests blessed the handguns of soldiers going to battle in world war 1.
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Are you sure about that idea? I’ve heard of it in the context of Orthodox priests, but not Catholic priests. 🤷‍♂️
These priests were the worst kind of Catholics you can ever imagine.
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I know! How dare they??? I mean… actually praying that their parishioners defend themselves and stay alive in the war? What in the world were they thinking?!?!?!? :roll_eyes:
 
I think the easiest way for the OP to respond would be by saying “how can Life be a murderer?”
 
Writer_for_God said:
Hi everyone,

I have seen videos of Bill Maher where he essentially says the God of the Old Testament is a psychopathic mass murdered who enjoys killing people. I don’t know how to respond to people like this. There is a lot of killing in the Old Testament, much of it commanded by God.

How do I understand and explain the killing in the Old Testament? This is probably my biggest difficulty with the faith. I can explain and help people understand almost anything else about the Catholic faith, but the killing commanded by God in the Old Testament is stumping me, and I could use some help. Are there any good books that would help me understand the Old Testament better?

Thank you for any help you can give me.
God bless you. Amen.
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I would respond by saying that by definition, murder is the unjust taking of a human life. This places the burden on the unbeliever to prove that God is unjust when He kills, or commands killing.
 
nogames said:
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Writer_for_God:
Hi everyone,

I have seen videos of Bill Maher where he essentially says the God of the Old Testament is a psychopathic mass murdered who enjoys killing people. I don’t know how to respond to people like this. There is a lot of killing in the Old Testament, much of it commanded by God.

How do I understand and explain the killing in the Old Testament? This is probably my biggest difficulty with the faith. I can explain and help people understand almost anything else about the Catholic faith, but the killing commanded by God in the Old Testament is stumping me, and I could use some help. Are there any good books that would help me understand the Old Testament better?

Thank you for any help you can give me.
God bless you. Amen.
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I would respond by saying that by definition, murder is the unjust taking of a human life. This places the burden on the unbeliever to prove that God is unjust when He kills, or commands killing.
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It also raises the difficult question of God’s revealed nature.
Christ is God’s final and fullest revelation. And so in light of Christ, we are compelled to ask if it is in God’s nature to, in literalist fashion, command one human being to kill innocents.

(Keeping in mind that scriptural inerrancy refers to what God wishes to communicate in saving truth, not to literalist accuracy. The writer of scripture is not required to have perfect understanding of God’s will for God to communicate what he wishes to us.)
 
Which He is not. God is the judge of all the earth, and He told Abraham that if only He found ten in Sodom He wouldn’t destroy the city. He didn’t even find ten.
 
goout said:
Keeping in mind that scriptural inerrancy refers to what God wishes to communicate in saving truth, not to literalist accuracy. The writer of scripture is not required to have perfect understanding of God’s will for God to communicate what he wishes to us
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What God wishes to communicate through us happened in history. If you abandon the historical sense of Scripture, you have undermined its value.
 
goout said:
And so in light of Christ, we are compelled to ask if it is in God’s nature to, in literalist fashion, command one human being to kill innocents.
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Execept that we read in Scripture, “None is righteous, NOT ONE.”
 
God also commanded Abraham to kill his only son. Lots of unbelievers will find this to be unjust. But justice originates in God’s unchanging character, and it is not for our finite and fallen minds to define. It is a common fallacy that what we fail to fully and exhaustively comprehend (such as perfect justice) either doesn’t exist, or is somehow indefensible. But as I said, the burden of proof that God is unjust is on those who say God is unjust.
 
I agree that it was a test. The issue, of course, isn’t why God commanded Abraham to kill his son, but if God is unjust for commanding that.
 
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Agathon said:
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goout:
Keeping in mind that scriptural inerrancy refers to what God wishes to communicate in saving truth, not to literalist accuracy. The writer of scripture is not required to have perfect understanding of God’s will for God to communicate what he wishes to us
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What God wishes to communicate through us happened in history. If you abandon the historical sense of Scripture, you have undermined its value.
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I’m just going to insert a question mark here:
?
because I never said anything about abandoning the historical sense of scripture.
 
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