How to show Extreme 'Traditionalist' the errors of her ways?

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fisherman_carl

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There is this extreme traditionalist catholic who says the post Vatican II church is in heresy and the 7 sacraments are invalid. And she says that the pope did not have the authority to change the Mass, say from Latin to English, because it was already established as doctrine that can not be changed by Pope Pius V. What she says doesn’t make sense to me but I was hoping someone with a bit of knowledge on this issue would chime in here to give some good refutation to her ideas. She also subscribes to that holyfamilymonastery website.
 
The Church is being Crucified by extreme Liberals nailing one hand and extreme Traditionalists on the other side. The way they are going the antiChrist will have no Church left to percecute as it will have Crucified itself.
 
Fisherman Carl, I will tell you that the first thing NOT to do is to argue with them Do not get angry or call them degrading names. IF you do, you will only reinforce their error deeper in their heart. A Missionary of Charity told me once a long time ago that if the heart is lost, all is lost.

If you can (and not everyone is able to do this), show them very calmly where they are wrong. If they begin to argue with you, thank them very quietly and leave.

The most important thing you can do is to pray for them. Offer a Rosary (or twelve 👍) for them. If you are financially able, have a Mass said for them.

There really isn’t much else you can do. 🙂
 
thirddec said:
The Church is being Crucified by extreme Liberals nailing one hand and extreme Traditionalists on the other side. The way they are going the antiChrist will have no Church left to percecute as it will have Crucified itself.
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I agree. 👍 But honestly I also think the ones hammering the legs are the moderate libs as well.
 
I find a good way to diffuse the situation and yet keep the conversation going is to say a lot of "I agree with you"s, let them know where they are right as well as where they went wrong. Keep up the good effort!🙂
I too would like to know where they get the whole “doctrine” thing from with the Latin/English mass thing, is it in canon law somewhere?
 
Lormar said:
Fisherman Carl, I will tell you that the first thing NOT to do is to argue with them Do not get angry or call them degrading names. IF you do, you will only reinforce their error deeper in their heart. A Missionary of Charity told me once a long time ago that if the heart is lost, all is lost.

If you can (and not everyone is able to do this), show them very calmly where they are wrong. If they begin to argue with you, thank them very quietly and leave.

The most important thing you can do is to pray for them. Offer a Rosary (or twelve 👍) for them. If you are financially able, have a Mass said for them.

There really isn’t much else you can do. 🙂
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I love it; let the Liberals pray the rosary for the Trads and vice versa and the whole church will benifit as they will be so busy praying that the rest of us can concentrate on our Saviour Christ and the Mass. And all the Rosaries can’t be a bad thing either 👍
 
thirddec said:
I love it; let the Liberals pray the rosary for the Trads and vice versa and the whole church will benifit as they will be so busy praying that the rest of us can concentrate on our Saviour Christ and the Mass. And all the Rosaries can’t be a bad thing either 👍
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Would you explain what you mean? You’re not saying that I am a liberal, are you?, because that is how your post reads to me.
 
Lormar said:
Would you explain what you mean? You’re not saying that I am a liberal, are you?, because that is how your post reads to me.
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I didn’t read it like that. I think he was just making a joke.
 
Thanks for all your replies. I used some of what you guys said to here. But she is set in her ways. She just started to insult me more and more so I broke off our conversation. I tried to be polite but also explain the truth as I see it. She called me naive and a bunch of other things because I don’t agree with her.

She of course disagreed with what you guys said calling it lies or misinformed. She thinks the pope and the bishops actually planned to deprive the Mass with the changes. She thinks they know it is an elicit Mass but continue it anyway. A lot of what she says is incoherent and sounds very much like a conspiracy theory.

I said a prayer for her. Hopefully, someday she will come to her senses.

God Bless
 
Unless you are responsible for her (like her relative, or priest) it is better to leave her alone. Arguments does not work against bigotry. The faith (in this case in the living Magisterium) is supernatural gift, cannot be approached by rational arguments any way.
 
fisherman_carl said:
There is this extreme traditionalist catholic who says the post Vatican II church is in heresy and the 7 sacraments are invalid. And she says that the pope did not have the authority to change the Mass, say from Latin to English, because it was already established as doctrine that can not be changed by Pope Pius V. What she says doesn’t make sense to me but I was hoping someone with a bit of knowledge on this issue would chime in here to give some good refutation to her ideas. She also subscribes to that holyfamilymonastery website.
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I’ve ran into a few like this… both at a Novus Ordo Mass… lol. 😉 I agree with the poster who said there’s not much you can do. Talking to them is a lot like talking to anti-Catholic Protestants or atheists, they’ll fire off many things at once, and want to move on without going deeper. Just say, hold on, slow down, to fairly discuss this let’s pick one of these issues for now to focus on so that we can delve into it rather than skim the surface. And if you don’t know, tell her, and get back to her soon after you have a chance to look up the info. It might be better for her to talk with a priest who is well-versed in this.

Extreme Traditionalists feed on emotions and misinformation/ignorance. As a devotee of the TLM they upset me so much because they give us faithful Catholics a bad name. 😦 Good luck!!
 
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