How To Sort Through So Much Information?

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dailey

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First off, thank you to all of you who have been so helpful this week in answering all my questions. I appreciate it more then you will ever know. As you can see, I am quite new here and have so many question…hopefully I am placing them in the right spot.

Secondly, geeze, how did you all get so knowledgeable???😃 I mean, really, I feel like I am in kindergarten again.:o I thought I was quite familair with my faith but obviously I was wrong. Sometimes I get so overwhelmed on this site that I take a break by going to Facebook and reading the silly post that my “friends” write.😛

Seriously though, I really want to learn more but I get sooo lost most of time trying to follow the conversations. And to make it worst…not everyone agrees on the same thing. So how do I know who to believe?? What if I “pick a side” and its wrong? Am I going to be punished for it? For example, communion in the hand. I’ve noticed that its a hot topic. I still remember, at my new school, Sister Elizabeth telling us it was okay. However, Sister Rosaria said it was not (she was from my old school). For me, in my heart it never felt right to take it in the hand so i don’t. Even though 99% of the parishioner do. Of course, this is just one example of conflicting opinions among Catholics…

So how do you all sort through all of this stuff? Do you just go with your gut instinct regarding what to believe?
 
I’m learning about my faith too and often it just takes a lot of research:o

about Communion in the hand, - it’s currently allowed by the Church, but what I think many don’t realize is that it’s only allowed as an indult. The Church still says that the norm should be receiving on the tongue. But people don’t follow this… and receiving in the hand has become the norm!

I actually read something by a priest, Fr John Hardon, who is being considered for canonization… here’s how he described the origins of receiving Communion in the hand:

"We were at concelebrated Mass with the Holy Father, and we were absolutely forbidden to give Communion in the hands. Communion in the hand, Communion in the hand began, in the hand, with the publication of the Dutch Catechism with nobody’s permission except the bishops—in effect, in principle separated themselves from the Holy See. One country after another began then to ask for permission, which the Dutch bishops never asked for, permission to receive Communion in the hand. I was asked by the bishops’ conference to write a defense of Communion on the tongue, and I can again talk for hours.
Code: 
 "In the very, very early Church, Communion was given in the hands. However, as the faith of the Christians weakened in the Real Presence, by the 5th, 6th centuries Communion on the tongue became mandatory—remained mandatory until the present century.  Behind Communion in the hand—I wish to repeat and make as plain as I can—is a weakening, a conscious, deliberate weakening of faith in the Real Presence.      

 And the American hierarchy took most—three times, those wanting Communion in the hand kept pushing and pushing.  Finally, meantime, I was asked by the vice-president of the Catholic Conference of Bishops to defend Communion on the tongue, which I did.  To get enough votes to give Communion in the hand, bishops who were retired, bishops who were dying, were solicited to vote to make sure that the vote would be affirmative in favor of Communion in the hand.  Whatever you can do to stop Communion in the hand will be blessed by God.”
  • Fr. John Hardon, S.J., November 1st, 1997 Call to Holiness Conference
    in Detroit, Michigan, panel discussion.
 
dailey said:
What if I “pick a side” and its wrong? Am I going to be punished for it? …

So how do you all sort through all of this stuff? Do you just go with your gut instinct regarding what to believe?
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Trust the Church, first. Jesus told us the gates of Hell would not prevail against it. Don’t believe anyone who says the popes are the antichrist, the new Mass is not valid, etc etc. Trust the Church.

The Church says that Communion in the hand is acceptable so it is not a sin. However, if you feel convicted, in your heart, to receive on the tongue, then you should do that, since there are solid, objective arguments for it and it is, as Monica mentioned, the official norm. Your desire to receive on the tongue is probably a grace from God so you should be faithful to it. Just don’t start thinking that everyone who is receiving Communion in the hand is sinning, because the Church says they are not.

Our gut instincts can be wrong, so it is important to listen to the Church, to pray, and to use reason.
 
dailey said:
Secondly, geeze, how did you all get so knowledgeable???😃 I mean, really, I feel like I am in kindergarten again.:o I thought I was quite familair with my faith but obviously I was wrong. Sometimes I get so overwhelmed on this site that I take a break by going to Facebook and reading the silly post that my “friends” write.
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Well, if you are like me you lurk for a few years reading and verifying and being challenged and then you dive right in and get smarter and beat up (oh, I’m sorry, I meant “gently corrected”) 😃 and in a few months you find that you are the one helping give back some of the tremendous knowledge that is shared here.
dailey said:
Seriously though, I really want to learn more but I get sooo lost most of time trying to follow the conversations. And to make it worst…not everyone agrees on the same thing. So how do I know who to believe?? What if I “pick a side” and its wrong? Am I going to be punished for it? For example, communion in the hand…So how do you all sort through all of this stuff? Do you just go with your gut instinct regarding what to believe?
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You follow what the Church teaches and decide if there are other legal and legitimate practices you want to follow.

For example, no matter how you personally feel about CITH, it is a valid and licit way to receive the Eucharist so if it feels right to you, do it that way. Now, COTT is also a valid and licit way to receive, so if you want to receive that way go right ahead. Neither is more proper than the other (if they were the Church would outlaw the less proper way).

The same with Mass. The EF is as valid and licit as the OF, so go to the one that feeds your soul better.

It is great to read up and form an opinion on the things that matter to you but don’t let that impede your main goal - a deeper, fuller, richer, closer, relationship with Jesus.

P.S. - One final thought, remember this is the internet. Not everyone knows what they are talking about. Not everyone who sounds like an authority is. The number of posts does not equate with the soundness of thinking. Facts, facts, facts. The #1 thing I LOVE about the forum, aside from the wonderful people here, is that we are good about presenting facts (references, links, canon law, articles) in support of our opinions.
 
thank you for the replies.

@student09- I don’t think that the parishioners are sinning since they are given the okay by the “church”…which leads me to my next question, who is the “church”?:o I was always under the impression that the Pope had the power over all others? From everything that I read, Pope John Paul II, Mother Tereasa, Pope Paul VI and St. Padre Pio are just a few of the verrry long list of people that say it is wrong to receive communion in the hand? If so many important figures in the Catholic Church are against it, then how does the “church” still allow it?
 
Start building a small reference library.

Catechism of the Catholic Church AND the Baltimore Catechism.

And way up at the top of this page is a button labeled “ENCYCLOPEDIA” … click on that, and just pick something of interest … maybe your saints names.

Maybe “mortal sin”.

Maybe “canonization”.

Just pick a topic and start reading

And enjoy it.

After awhile, the gaps start to fill in.
 
dailey said:
thank you for the replies.

@student09- I don’t think that the parishioners are sinning since they are given the okay by the “church”…which leads me to my next question, who is the “church”?:o I was always under the impression that the Pope had the power over all others? From everything that I read, Pope John Paul II, Mother Tereasa, Pope Paul VI and St. Padre Pio are just a few of the verrry long list of people that say it is wrong to receive communion in the hand? If so many important figures in the Catholic Church are against it, then how does the “church” still allow it?
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Dailey - Oh, boy, this can get complicated. Let me try to be simple minded. Who “the Church” is depends on what you are talking about.

(a) Generally when we are talking about “the Church” in a theological arena, we mean everyone in the Church, i.e. the Body of Christ.

(b) When we are talking about “the Church” as in “Rome set forth a new rule”, we are talking about the various congregations in Rome which handle different Chruch areas or the Magisterium expressed through various national councils, like the USCCB.

(c) When we are talking about “the Church” as in “we are getting married in our Church,”, we are talking about a specific local place.

CITH is a discipline, i.e. a rule which can be changed and not a dogma. which cannot be changed so “the Church” is (b). So it is “Rome” which sets forths the norms for how to receive communion or who approves indults (changes) to those norms. For CITH, the USCCB (and others) asked Rome if they could allow it in addition to COTT. Rome said yes (please, if you are going to argue this take it to a new thread or resurrect one of the old ones) and so we have both available to us in th US.

Now, as to your list: While it may be true that some of those people had a personal belief as to the best way to receive, it in no way makes CITH any less valid or licit. There is a big difference between personal opinion (even the personal opinion of a Pope) and instituted laws and rules.

One last point worth mentioning - at any time for any reason, the Pope can change any discipline he wants and we all have to live with it. If Paul VI or JP II or Benedict XVI really thought the faithful should not receive CITH they would have abolished it and that would be that.
 
Test all things, hold fast to what is good. 😉

I can see how coming to CAF can be an overwhelming experience. 😛 The longer you hang around, the more you will come to see who presents generally reliable information. To make it easier, I’ll just say that you should trust everything I say and ignore everyone else! 😛 😉 😃 (Okay, maybe not… :o)

I always look at sources. Is the poster simply presenting their own opinion, or are they basing it on actual Church documents? If someone is purporting that one Church document contradicts a previous one, that is reason enough to be skeptical of anything that follows.

Just to let you know, the average poster here on the “Traditional Catholicism” subforum may be a bit different than the average poster in, say, the “Apologetics” subforum. For example, if you post the question about Communion in the hand [CITH) here, you may get a lot of people telling you that it is horrible, irreverent, etc. That’s a fine *opinion, but the Church currently allows us to choose either CITH or Communion on the tongue [COTT]. Personally, I prefer to receive on the tongue and I feel far more comfortable doing it that way, but I’m not going to fault someone for doing something that the Church herself allows. When it comes to certain questions on Church teaching and practice, it is important not so enamored of our own preferences that we want to foist them on everyone.
 
TheDoctor said:
Dailey - Oh, boy, this can get complicated. Let me try to be simple minded. Who “the Church” is depends on what you are talking about.

(a) Generally when we are talking about “the Church” in a theological arena, we mean everyone in the Church, i.e. the Body of Christ.

(b) When we are talking about “the Church” as in “Rome set forth a new rule”, we are talking about the various congregations in Rome which handle different Chruch areas or the Magisterium expressed through various national councils, like the USCCB.

(c) When we are talking about “the Church” as in “we are getting married in our Church,”, we are talking about a specific local place.

CITH is a discipline, i.e. a rule which can be changed and not a dogma. which cannot be changed so “the Church” is (b). So it is “Rome” which sets forths the norms for how to receive communion or who approves indults (changes) to those norms. For CITH, the USCCB (and others) asked Rome if they could allow it in addition to COTT. Rome said yes (please, if you are going to argue this take it to a new thread or resurrect one of the old ones) and so we have both available to us in th US.

Now, as to your list: While it may be true that some of those people had a personal belief as to the best way to receive, it in no way makes CITH any less valid or licit. There is a big difference between personal opinion (even the personal opinion of a Pope) and instituted laws and rules.

One last point worth mentioning - at any time for any reason, the Pope can change any discipline he wants and we all have to live with it. If Paul VI or JP II or Benedict XVI really thought the faithful should not receive CITH they would have abolished it and that would be that.
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Well put. I guess that’s why you’re “The Doctor.” 😛
 
A mistake that I made was being distracted from acquiring sanctity by acquiring knowledge. If I could do things over again, I would spend more time praying and less studying. Information is not an end in itself. It is only good when it allows us to serve God and others better.
 
floresco said:
A mistake that I made was being distracted from acquiring sanctity by acquiring knowledge. If I could do things over again, I would spend more time praying and less studying. Information is not an end in itself. It is only good when it allows us to serve God and others better.
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Very true. The Church isn’t a reading club. It’s very easy to confuse knowing about God with actually knowing him. Even so, Ignorance isn’t a virtue, and it behooves us to learn as much as we can about the faith. Not everyone is a theologian or even capable of becoming one, but we can all learn enough to understand and defend our faith. I’ve always found Frank Sheed’s books really good for explaining the faith in a way that makes sense even to relatively unschooled people like me. This one is especially good:

amazon.com/Theology-Beginners-Francis-Joseph-Sheed/dp/0892831243/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280425257&sr=1-1

Also, there’s a pretty good sermon series on Audiosancto. The priests are mostly FSSP (Society of St. Peter, Latin mass only priests) I think, and I actually found them too hardhitting at first because the style of sermon was so different from the I’m OK/You’re OK style of sermon I’ve been used to my whole life. But there’s so much there it would be impossible not to learn something from them.

www.audiosancto.org
 
dailey said:
thank you for the replies.

@student09- I don’t think that the parishioners are sinning since they are given the okay by the “church”…which leads me to my next question, who is the “church”?:o I was always under the impression that the Pope had the power over all others? From everything that I read, Pope John Paul II, Mother Tereasa, Pope Paul VI and St. Padre Pio are just a few of the verrry long list of people that say it is wrong to receive communion in the hand? If so many important figures in the Catholic Church are against it, then how does the “church” still allow it?
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I didn’t mean to suggest that you thought that - I was just warning you about a potential pitfall. I’m not aware of any of those people you listed saying it is sinful to receive in the hand, although they may have said that Communion on the tongue is preferred - which is a very different statement. If they did say it was sinful, they would be contradicting the Magisterium, so they would be wrong. Also don’t believe everything you read on the internet since there is a lot of false information floating around.

Here is the official website of Mother Teresa on the statement that you mentioned: motherteresa.org/08_info/ReceivingC.html

By “the Church” I mean the teaching authority of the Church - the Magisterium. That means the pope and the bishops (but the bishops have to all agree - or almost all - in order to have this authority … I think). The way it works is kind of complicated and I still don’t completely understand it. But there are others who understand better and can probably direct you to some good articles about it.
 
Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut and links everyone.🙂 Lot of really good info.
floresco said:
A mistake that I made was being distracted from acquiring sanctity by acquiring knowledge. If I could do things over again, I would spend more time praying and less studying. Information is not an end in itself. It is only good when it allows us to serve God and others better.
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I love this…more time praying and less studying. Now that is something I can understand!👍
 
dailey said:
I love this…more time praying and less studying. Now that is something I can understand!👍
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An analogy that some people use is to compare three elements of spiritual growth to a tripod, or three-legged stool. The three elements are study, piety and good works. We want to have all three of these in our lives and they need to be in balance with each other, or else we fall over. Looking back on my life, I would say that I was fine for good works, did more studying than I should have and did not develop piety enough. So I “fell over”. I have been a very smart person who was also an arrogant jerk. I have constantly struggled with intellectual pride. Study is good but there can be too much of a good thing. I do not want to discourage you from study; just remember to keep in balance.

Something else to keep in mind about all three elements is that they must fit around the duties of your state of life. If you have a family to take care of, it isn’t right to neglect them even to do good things. Don’t compare your prayer life to a nun’s or your studying to a professor’s. You have a different state of life than they do and so you have different obligations.

Another reason not to compare yourself to others is that people differ in their personalities and talents. You are not necessarily going to be drawn to the same kinds of service as another person and you probably won’t be good at the same things. God wants people with many different gifts in the Church so you don’t need to try to be like anybody else. Grow close to God and see what He wants from you.
 
@Dailey, I know how you feel. I thought to myself as I study on my own that the world was no longer interested in theology. Amongst my peers in my parish, none but my priest and a bare handful surpass what I know and study.
Then I discovered this place(through google), and they know so much more! Of course, you must properly discern good from bad information by going to the sources, ex. church documents.
Also the majority opinion does help and making sure it says Catholic under religion. However, of course, go to the sources.
 
floresco said:
An analogy that some people use is to compare three elements of spiritual growth to a tripod, or three-legged stool. The three elements are study, piety and good works. We want to have all three of these in our lives and they need to be in balance with each other, or else we fall over. Looking back on my life, I would say that I was fine for good works, did more studying than I should have and did not develop piety enough. So I “fell over”. I have been a very smart person who was also an arrogant jerk. I have constantly struggled with intellectual pride. Study is good but there can be too much of a good thing. I do not want to discourage you from study; just remember to keep in balance.

Something else to keep in mind about all three elements is that they must fit around the duties of your state of life. If you have a family to take care of, it isn’t right to neglect them even to do good things. Don’t compare your prayer life to a nun’s or your studying to a professor’s. You have a different state of life than they do and so you have different obligations.

Another reason not to compare yourself to others is that people differ in their personalities and talents. You are not necessarily going to be drawn to the same kinds of service as another person and you probably won’t be good at the same things. God wants people with many different gifts in the Church so you don’t need to try to be like anybody else. Grow close to God and see what He wants from you.
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You have a gift at explaining things.:hug3:

@snowbee- I am so happy I found this place too! I have learned so much in just this last week.🙂
 
dailey said:
First off, thank you to all of you who have been so helpful this week in answering all my questions. I appreciate it more then you will ever know. As you can see, I am quite new here and have so many question…hopefully I am placing them in the right spot.

Secondly, geeze, how did you all get so knowledgeable???😃 I mean, really, I feel like I am in kindergarten again.:o I thought I was quite familair with my faith but obviously I was wrong. Sometimes I get so overwhelmed on this site that I take a break by going to Facebook and reading the silly post that my “friends” write.😛

Seriously though, I really want to learn more but I get sooo lost most of time trying to follow the conversations. And to make it worst…not everyone agrees on the same thing. So how do I know who to believe?? What if I “pick a side” and its wrong? Am I going to be punished for it? For example, communion in the hand. I’ve noticed that its a hot topic. I still remember, at my new school, Sister Elizabeth telling us it was okay. However, Sister Rosaria said it was not (she was from my old school). For me, in my heart it never felt right to take it in the hand so i don’t. Even though 99% of the parishioner do. Of course, this is just one example of conflicting opinions among Catholics…

So how do you all sort through all of this stuff? Do you just go with your gut instinct regarding what to believe?
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Best suggestion is if you have questions talk first to your parish priest or deacon. Enrole in adult education programs that are available through your parish or your diocese. It’s continual Adult education that we all should take advantage of.
The individuals on this site are partionate, many will quote Church documents, although some time not completly and many others are opinions of what they believe the church should be, which is fine, everyone is entitled. It is still best to practice the Church teaching of subsidarity. It works in leadership and in education.
Peace,
FAB
 
Church teaching and authority comes through a direct line of popes from St. Peter at Matthew 16:16 to the present. The Truth never changes. RCIA instructors may present authentic Church teaching and some may not. The Internet is a great tool for the individual to cross reference and research. Trust but verify.
 
There are a lot of excellent priest-teachers on EWTN. My favorite is Fr. John Corapi.

Fr. George Rutler gives talks in “Christ in the City”.

And Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen’s classic and award-winning talks, once thought to have been lost, have been retrieved in kinescope format from various warehouses and are being rebroadcast.

These three priests (and others as well) provide rigorous and thought-provoking guidance and ideas for spiritual development.

Fr. Mitch Pacwa begins each program “Threshold of Hope”] with a brief discussion of the “saint of the day” and answering an email or two on some pressing current issue involving the Church, such as answering criticism by the New York Times. He does an excellent job in filling in the blanks.

ewtn.com/series/index.htm
 
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