F
FAB
Guest
As much as I hate to disagree, unless searching for specific documents, the internet is full of snares if someone already doesn’t know Catholic teaching. The best place always to start is one’s home parish.
Peace,
FAB
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Peace,
FAB
O
Ockham
Guest
There are many good and reputable sources on the Internet including the Vatican, EWTN, etc. Your local parish may have a RCIA instructor who does not teach the Truth. There are priests and bishops who act outside the Church as well.
O
Ockham
Guest
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t you stated there is a lack of catechesis in many parishes these days? Where is someone suppose to learn the faith if it isn’t being taught in the parish?
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FAB
Guest
You have a unfortunate low opinion of our priest and bishops, the sheperds of the Church. The vatican site is wonderful for documents, can’t aurgue with that. EWTN is all rite but leans to tradition for me as well as many of the others site.
I can’t speak to all RCIA intstrutors, but I do believe the vast majority are very well trained and know the truth, myself included.
As far as catichist, all dioceces offer training, and the majority of church’s use teaching materials form the USCCB.
Peace,
FAB
M
Monte_RCMS
Guest
It’s a little like: “How do you eat an elephant?”
Answer: “One bite at a time”.
So, just dig in any old place. At your own pace.
Visit Ignatius Press and get on their mailing list. They frequently have “90% off” sales which provides an opportunity to buy some excellent books at low cost.
Sophia Press, Ave Maria Press, and Stella Maris [the Dallas/Ft.Worth book store] have outstanding catalogs.
YES, you can go broke buying books! YES, you will have to build an addition to your house!
Some ancient person wrote: “When I have money, I buy books. If there is money left over, I buy food.”
Answer: “One bite at a time”.
So, just dig in any old place. At your own pace.
Visit Ignatius Press and get on their mailing list. They frequently have “90% off” sales which provides an opportunity to buy some excellent books at low cost.
Sophia Press, Ave Maria Press, and Stella Maris [the Dallas/Ft.Worth book store] have outstanding catalogs.
YES, you can go broke buying books! YES, you will have to build an addition to your house!
Some ancient person wrote: “When I have money, I buy books. If there is money left over, I buy food.”
O
Ockham
Guest
Really? Can you prove that?
Did you or did you not state there isn’t much catechesis in sermons these days?
It doesn’t surprise me you are an RCIA instructor. Hopefully your students aren’t getting too much of the modernist slant on things. If EWTN is too traditional for you I pray your bias doesn’t affect new Catholics.
For the OP here is a list of websites I trust. The Truth is out there and with the Internet very accesible and affordable. As Monte pointed out there are many excellent books on the Church. I also recommend Angelus Press and Tan Books.
News
catholicnewsagency.com/
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/
insidecatholic.com/
General Info
catholic-pages.com/start/
catholic.com/
fisheaters.com/beingcatholic.html
newadvent.org/
Media
ewtn.com/
wordonfire.org/
adoremus.org/
TLM
unavoce.org/
newliturgicalmovement.org/
Clergy
wdtprs.com/blog/
therealpresence.org/index.html
fultonsheen.com/
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FAB
Guest
Dear Ockham,
I don’t even believe that I stated that there wasn’t much catechist in sermons. Much depends on the homilist, also much depends on the readings for the day, to which the homilist is suppose to speak. Primarily how we take these teachings and use them in our lives today. .
As far a being a modernist, you throw that around like it is suppose to be an insult. Anti moderenist thought from a 100 years ago oppressed the study of the bible, restricted theological and philosophical thought, as well as science in our understanding of God and His creation. If you mean it as such, then go right ahead I’ll be proud to were the label.
What I have made clear in my post is that the Church is lead and guided by the Holy Spirit in each generation. Changes then are the work of God, not of man. This is not modernist thought, this is very very traditional, from the time of Pentecost as promised to us by Christ.
I have seen most of these sites you have given from time to time , some contain very good resources which I have used from time to time. The fact still remains that the primary teachers of the Church are bishops, and from them to our priest and deacons in our parishes. My issues with web sites is that most do not answer to a bishop as far as content or direction.
As far as misleading new Catholics, I don’t think so. I teach them the doctrine and practices of the Church today as taught by my ordinary and the Church.
Peace,
FAB
O
Ockham
Guest
Are these not your words?
“An important part since I do see that many Catholics fail to see the sacrafice and mystery of the mass, but that’s not because of the form used but lack of catichesis.”
“The sacramet of penance fell due to a change in teaching, yes directly from V2. The change though moved away from damnation to one of true reconcilation with God.”
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6888300#post6888300
I see from other posts you are not just an RCIA leader, but a “Liturgy Minister” and preside at funeral vigils. Do you or will you wear the priest’s Roman Collar? It’s clearer now why you promote the modern view of the Church. Lucky for all the Church is taking us back to tradtion and our true Catholic identity. The salvation of souls is at stake.
You claim to teach the authentic doctrines of the Church and know the truth, but in recent posts here you have promoted things like 65% of Americans are Catholic and that Communion on the tongue started in the Middle Ages. Based on this evidence I conclude that some Internet sites are a better source of Catholic information than some parishes.
Are you going to back up your accusation that I have a low opinion of priests and bishops?
J
Joe_5859
Guest
Just to clarify, that’s not really true. The USCCB doesn’t really produce catechetical materials. They rely on publishers to do that. Catechist training in any given diocese will use whatever materials that particular diocesan office chooses to use. The quality depends upon those who work there.
There is no national and/or official program for catechist training. Even if the USCCB produced such a thing (which I can’t see them doing), no diocese would be obligated to use it. It’s up to each bishop to make that call for his diocese.
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FAB
Guest
The lack of catichisis is often not the fault of the teacher but of the student. The main reason is that formal instruction often ends at confirmation when a person is in thier teens. Up to this point they may have had proper instruction, but for what ever reason the student doesn’t retain it. More often though, the lack of catichisis is because the person just didn’t go enough. It is a large issue for many parishes. Kids come for First Eucharist, then not again for confirmation, then never again. This lack has nothing to do with the qualification of the teacher as you are trying to imply.
This had to do with your Catichistis. The way the Church approaches the sacrament of penance change with V2. Less of an idea of punishment to one of reconciliation and redemption.
There may be some return back to some traditional identity, but never back to the pre V2. Any times there are changes , there may be extremes, recent documents including the new missal is to settle questions that have arrisen.
As far as my vocation, I’ll let you wonder about that.
Neither one of these are Church doctrine. I quoted from a source for the 65%, it very well may be in error. The point was that the church is growing and not nearly in the trouble you want to believe. There are issues, which go back to my point that there are better use of our energy that to squabble amoung ourselves and to complain so we can save souls.
As far as when communion on the tongue started, I did indicate that I thought it was based on when the communion wafer started to be used on a wide basis. It’s been some time since I studied that part of Church history so it could be off. The importance of the point is not when it began, but that it has not always been Church practice.
Are these not your words?
this seems to express a less that high opinion.
Peace,
FAB
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FAB
Guest
To clarify, I ment approved by the USCCB.Just to clarify, that’s not really true. The USCCB doesn’t really produce catechetical materials. They rely on publishers to do that. Catechist training in any given diocese will use whatever materials that particular diocesan office chooses to use. The quality depends upon those who work there.
There is no national and/or official program for catechist training. Even if the USCCB produced such a thing (which I can’t see them doing), no diocese would be obligated to use it. It’s up to each bishop to make that call for his diocese.
Even though there is not national training, most diocese do offer various kinds of training.
There are even national conferences that deal with the training of catichist.
Peace,
FAB
J
Joe_5859
Guest
The texts approved by the USCCB are for primary and secondary-level catechesis, not the formation of catechists, though.
There are indeed national conferences, some of which are better than others.
I recommend the St. John Bosco conference.
O
Ockham
Guest
Oh, so now it’s our fault. The implication of this post was an insufficient amount of catechesis from the pulpits. Spin all you want.
Sin and salvation did not change with V2. This is your misinterpretation of the ‘spirit of V2’. This is why there are so many Cafeteria Catholics and low attendance at Confession. Did the ramification of dying with mortal sin change post-V2?
Says you and the ‘spirit of V2’ crowd. Thankfully, the trend is against you.
The point here is your tendency to err. If you believe Wikipedia to be a reputable source then you may be inclined to believe other dubious sources.
The other point is the Church is not growing as you claim and many souls are indeed in peril.
*"Mass attendance: A 1958 Gallup poll reported that 74 percent of Catholics went to Sunday Mass in 1958. A 1994 University of Notre Dame study found that the attendance rate was 26.6 percent. A more recent study by Fordham University professor James Lothian concluded that 65 percent of Catholics went to Sunday Mass in 1965, while the rate dropped to 25 percent in 2000.
The decline in Mass attendance highlights another significant fact — fewer and fewer people who call themselves Catholic actually follow Church rules or accept Church doctrine. For example, a 1999 poll by the National Catholic Reporter shows that 77 percent believe a person can be a good Catholic without going to Mass every Sunday, 65 percent believe good Catholics can divorce and remarry, and 53 percent believe Catholics can have abortions and remain in good standing. Only 10 percent of lay religion teachers accept Church teaching on artificial birth control, according to a 2000 University of Notre Dame poll. And a New York Times poll revealed that 70 percent of Catholics age 18-44 believe the Eucharist is merely a “symbolic reminder” of Jesus." *
Kenneth C. Jones
seattlecatholic.com/article_20031208.html
Yes those are my words and I stand behind them, unlike yourself. There are in fact priests and bishops who are outside the Church. Do you dispute this?
J
Joe_5859
Guest
Sorry your thread got derailed, Dailey. 
O
Ockham
Guest
As much as I respect your sentiment and you as a member here, Joe, I don’t think this thread has gone off the rails. Actually, I think it serves as a solid witness as to the difference between trustworthy information and conjecture. There is indeed much misinformation on-line and off. The follower of Christ needs to be vigilant and prayful, trusting yet verifying.Sorry your thread got derailed, Dailey.
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FAB
Guest
Yes it is the faithful fault in part. to be part of the Church it is incumbant for the faithul to learn about thier faith and this has to be more than just 15 or 20 min. once a week.
?
Before V2 catholics had a list of dos and don’ts and the priest had a written penance for each don’t. It is now up to the faithful to have a fully developed conscience, which include following the teachings of the Church. This is a change as I indicated.
Only on site like this.
I have never augued these things, in fact agree with them. It’s why I believe faithfull Catholics need to set aside differeces, i.e. room for both the EF and OF to come back to the original thread.
Possibly, many are on the traditional side.
Peace,
FAB
O
Ockham
Guest
I’ll try this once again. Is there a lack of catechesis from the pulpit?
Up to the faithful? How so? To determine what is and what isn’t a sin? This is the Modernist approach and something to stay away from.
This statement shows you are not paying attention to the Vatican and key bishops throughout the world. The Pope has declared the ‘spirit of V2’ to be misinterpreted. This will be resisted by many who look to benefit from all the changes both realized and projected such as married priests, gay marriage, liturgical ministers, EMHCs, etc.
I have provided several sources most recently from the PEW Institute. You keep ignoring or denying them in order to salvage your original contention which is sadly wrong.
Faithful Catholics need to know the truth which has been challenging these past forty years. It’s easy for the faithful to be lead astray by weak catechesis and ill-informed laity pretending to be clergy.
F
FAB
Guest
.
Perhaps this is the bases of the problem. You think people have been lead astray. Your views are anti V2. Traditionalist also like to grab onto one or two quotes, often taken out of context by the holy father or a cardinal and then try to prove that the Church is in a mess or to prove thier point. I simply reject these assurtions. Mainly because it’s not the case.
To answer a previous question, yes I will be ordained, I am completing the program to be a Permenate Deacon for the Church. The circles that I am in are very devoute Catholics, well informed who know the Church, it’s history and it’s doctrine as am I. In the years of my formation, there has never been a discussion about going back to pre V2 practicesor the use of the EF of the mass as called for on these blogs. I also fully support what happened at the council, fully support the OF of the mass and all current Church teaching. If that make me a moderist, I already adressed that issue.
I fully agree there are issues with the Church and the faithful. I also know that these issues are being addressed in many differnent ways.
I have made a decision to give my life in service to God and His Church, so there is no pretending here.
Peace,
FAB
O
Ockham
Guest
I’m not anti-V2, I am anti-“spirit of V2”. V2 never called for most of the changes I’m sure you embrace. It never called for a new Mass, CITH nor EMHCs. I shudder to think what you consider Church teaching.
Many traditional priests are not outside the Church so why don’t you take this opportunity to exit this discussion. At this point you are embarrassing yourself.
The OP has been given a clear example of how difficult it can be to sort through so much information. I’m sure the group you are in does not support SP but the Vatican does. Your group may resist Church tradition but the Truth never changes. The websites I provided should shine through the current fog of narcissism and confusion.
Many traditional priests are not outside the Church so why don’t you take this opportunity to exit this discussion. At this point you are embarrassing yourself.
The OP has been given a clear example of how difficult it can be to sort through so much information. I’m sure the group you are in does not support SP but the Vatican does. Your group may resist Church tradition but the Truth never changes. The websites I provided should shine through the current fog of narcissism and confusion.
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