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john1513
Guest
Thoughts on this?
wikihow.com/Break-the-%22Nice-Guy%22-Stereotype
and
drglover.com/no-more-mr-nice-guy.html
wikihow.com/Break-the-%22Nice-Guy%22-Stereotype
and
drglover.com/no-more-mr-nice-guy.html
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1ke
Guest
It’s not about being nice. Everyone should be nice. And virtuous.
It’s about behaviors those who lack self confidence or who have other issues exhibit and the types of people those behaviors attract and repel, and the personal and professional trouble one who exhibits them can find themselves in.
The way to fix that is to work on yourself, through self help or professional help, to deal with the root cause of the confidence, boundary, and communication issues.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Women do this, too: that is, they become people-pleasers and wonder why everyone else is not comfortable around them. They wonder why they attract users and repel people who aren’t manipulative.
Healthy people who will be good to you do not want you to treat yourself without the respect of healthy boundaries. They want you to be polite about how you say it, but they do want know what you think, not just have you tell them the kind of things you think they want you to think. They want you to be honest about what your own needs are, and to see to those. They want the things you like to be as important as the things that anyone else likes. They want you to stick up for yourself, so they won’t have to do mind-reading in order to do it for you.
They want you to let them know if you are not comfortable with a proposal they have. They don’t want you to treat them as if they won’t be able to manage if you don’t gallop in and rescue them. They don’t want you to need them to tell you that you’re OK on a regular basis. (That is necessary, sometimes, but not all the time.) They don’t want you to think they need you to approve of them all of the time, either. They want honest feedback, even when it is disappointing. That’s why they ask for your opinion! They don’t want friends who try to avoid all conflict, even when that means everyone have to guess about everyone else’s passive-aggressive agenda all of the time.
That is the bottom line: Good people care about you, and they want you to do the work of caring about yourself, too. They don’t want you to dump that on to them, and they don’t want you to try to take over their responsibility to know their own minds and look after themselves, either.
Yes, typical people are a little timid about saying what they think and sticking up for themselves. Typical people are afraid that they aren’t OK; they send out feelers for their ideas and don’t say a lot of things that they think will prove unpopular. By and large, though, they do want honest relationships with their friends and loved ones. Not “I couldn’t learn anything new if I could read your mind” honest, but honest, all the same.
Healthy people who will be good to you do not want you to treat yourself without the respect of healthy boundaries. They want you to be polite about how you say it, but they do want know what you think, not just have you tell them the kind of things you think they want you to think. They want you to be honest about what your own needs are, and to see to those. They want the things you like to be as important as the things that anyone else likes. They want you to stick up for yourself, so they won’t have to do mind-reading in order to do it for you.
They want you to let them know if you are not comfortable with a proposal they have. They don’t want you to treat them as if they won’t be able to manage if you don’t gallop in and rescue them. They don’t want you to need them to tell you that you’re OK on a regular basis. (That is necessary, sometimes, but not all the time.) They don’t want you to think they need you to approve of them all of the time, either. They want honest feedback, even when it is disappointing. That’s why they ask for your opinion! They don’t want friends who try to avoid all conflict, even when that means everyone have to guess about everyone else’s passive-aggressive agenda all of the time.
That is the bottom line: Good people care about you, and they want you to do the work of caring about yourself, too. They don’t want you to dump that on to them, and they don’t want you to try to take over their responsibility to know their own minds and look after themselves, either.
Yes, typical people are a little timid about saying what they think and sticking up for themselves. Typical people are afraid that they aren’t OK; they send out feelers for their ideas and don’t say a lot of things that they think will prove unpopular. By and large, though, they do want honest relationships with their friends and loved ones. Not “I couldn’t learn anything new if I could read your mind” honest, but honest, all the same.
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starshiptrooper
Guest
I actually just ordered No More Mr. Nice Guy. I would also recommend reading The Prince, The 48 Laws of Power, and any of Ayn Rand’s novels.
As a former nice guy still in the process of getting it out of my system, those books are extremely helpful in changing your mindset. The first 2 explain how successful people really operate and how to succeed in a cutthroat world. Ayn Rand’s philosophy will help with the altruistic mindset that so many nice guys suffer from. She will remind you as my signature says, that your happiness is not the means to any end. It is the end.
As a former nice guy still in the process of getting it out of my system, those books are extremely helpful in changing your mindset. The first 2 explain how successful people really operate and how to succeed in a cutthroat world. Ayn Rand’s philosophy will help with the altruistic mindset that so many nice guys suffer from. She will remind you as my signature says, that your happiness is not the means to any end. It is the end.
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Xantippe
Guest
I’d add Rabbi Lapin’s “Thou Shall Prosper” to the pile. The grammar in the title makes me wince a little, but it’s a very interesting book, about how Jewish people have historically prospered by figuring out how to serve others.
There’s a list of chapters here:
rabbidaniellapin.com/product/thou-shall-prosper-hardcover-book/
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1ke
Guest
There is nothing wrong with altruism. Ayn Rand’s philosophy is based on atheism. Catholics should base their lives on the Gospels, not Ayn Rand. And, no, our own happiness is NOT the “end” of our lives.
I would suggest that you have veered off the path if you believe these books on how to be cut throat and look out only for your own self interest are the way to behave. They are contrary to the Gospel.
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Melodeonist
Guest
Why on Earth would you want to stop being nice? Being nice is a blessing. 
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starshiptrooper
Guest
I disagree, altruism (placing another’s interests ahead of yours) is wrong. It implies that others are worth more than you. Furthermore, the Gospels tell us to love our neighbor as ourselves. The standard is a healthy love of self or as Ayn Rand pointed out, in order to say “I love you,” and have it mean something, you must first learn to say, “I.”
Finally, your happiness is the end. That is what every human action is dedicated to. Who else besides a masochist seeks suffering just for the sake of suffering? Aristotle already covered this point.
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Melodeonist
Guest
Jesus put himself before others when he died on the cross for us. Saints put Jesus before them when they died to be martyrs. War heroes put others before them when they jump on a bomb. Are you saying they all died in vain?
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starshiptrooper
Guest
I will not try to understand the actions of a being who is infinite in scope. That is a futile pursuit. Given that God has no needs, I am not sure it is even possible for Him to do something strictly for Himself.
They did that to go to Heaven. They thought they were going to be happy.
Easy, they either valued their comrades so highly that life without them would have been pointless, or they decided to die a hero. Plenty of people want to leave a legacy.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
Everyone knows how to say I. Or better yet, “me, me, me” or “mine”
The day before my Dad died he helped his next door neighbor for most of the day. His car had been stolen. He brought him to the police department, helped with the insurance claim, and brought him to claim the shell of the car when it was found stripped and abandoned.
This gentleman remembered for the rest of his life and watched out for and helped my widowed mom who lived next door. My mom’s neighbor was a retired cop, and then continued to be a security guard, so a strong guy.
In Ayn Rand’s world every one is pursuing their own happiness and twiddling their thumbs while others are in need.
And I’m blessed my husband is closer to my dad and my ex neighbor in personality and altruism.
There is a great book called “Architects of the Culture of Death” Ms. Rand has her own chapter.
ignatius.com/Products/ACD-P/architects-of-the-culture-of-death.aspx
Mary_Gail_36
New member
You are completely right.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
I second pretty much everything EJ said.
I also want to point out that your question isn’t really “How do I stop being so nice?”, it’s “How do I become the kind of person people respect?” The fact of the matter is, there is not one person on the face of the earth who is just so nice, generous, kind, and altruistic that it harms their interpersonal relationships. That’s just a myth people tell themselves to avoid responsibility.
But if you want to be the kind of person others respect, it’s something you have to address head on. Do you do bend over backwards for people hoping to guilt them into a friendship or relationship? That isn’t nice. Do you put everyone else before you because you lack the confidence to draw firm boundaries when you need to? That’s not nice either. Do you do things because you feel like you have to or else people won’t like you anymore? That’s also not nice. Do you swoop in whenever you see a female friend or acquaintance hurting in hopes that they’ll see how much you care and give you more than they’re interested in? Again, not nice.
Figure out what’s behind your compulsion to be a people-pleaser. Is it insecurity? Lack of confidence? A desire to manipulate? Be honest with yourself and work on that. Because if there’s one thing that makes people more uncomfortable than a man without a backbone, it’s a man without a backbone who whines and complains that his problems actually stem from how extraordinarily wonderful of a person he is (and it also gives him away pretty quick as anything but nice).
I also want to point out that your question isn’t really “How do I stop being so nice?”, it’s “How do I become the kind of person people respect?” The fact of the matter is, there is not one person on the face of the earth who is just so nice, generous, kind, and altruistic that it harms their interpersonal relationships. That’s just a myth people tell themselves to avoid responsibility.
But if you want to be the kind of person others respect, it’s something you have to address head on. Do you do bend over backwards for people hoping to guilt them into a friendship or relationship? That isn’t nice. Do you put everyone else before you because you lack the confidence to draw firm boundaries when you need to? That’s not nice either. Do you do things because you feel like you have to or else people won’t like you anymore? That’s also not nice. Do you swoop in whenever you see a female friend or acquaintance hurting in hopes that they’ll see how much you care and give you more than they’re interested in? Again, not nice.
Figure out what’s behind your compulsion to be a people-pleaser. Is it insecurity? Lack of confidence? A desire to manipulate? Be honest with yourself and work on that. Because if there’s one thing that makes people more uncomfortable than a man without a backbone, it’s a man without a backbone who whines and complains that his problems actually stem from how extraordinarily wonderful of a person he is (and it also gives him away pretty quick as anything but nice).
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ClearWater
Guest
The goal of life is happiness (in heaven). So, we may, or may not, be happy on earth. What’s key is that we make it to eternal life and eternal happiness with God.
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edwest2
Guest
It depends on the relationship. Others expect you to be nice to the point of putting off things you need to do. Not want but need. Being a giver is good, but if you have no more left to give, then what? You need to sit down with that other person and say: “I’m doing my best to help you but I have bills or problems that need to be managed too.” Any kind of relationship should not be a one-way street. However, I know people who have learned to sponge off of others but who are not available to help you in return. And there are cases where they can’t but people who can do better than they are, should. It’s not all on you.
And hey, if they feel let down, it’s not like you’ve never been there for them. You have - to the point that you’re on the edge of not being able to pay your own bills. Again, certain situations allow for some help but not more than you can handle. Be nice. Be realistic. Don’t get used.
Always be the nice guy. No one likes confrontation but just be polite, stick to the facts and do a little if you can, but don’t overdo it. Sometimes, the other party has to realize you are not a sponge.
Ed
And hey, if they feel let down, it’s not like you’ve never been there for them. You have - to the point that you’re on the edge of not being able to pay your own bills. Again, certain situations allow for some help but not more than you can handle. Be nice. Be realistic. Don’t get used.
Always be the nice guy. No one likes confrontation but just be polite, stick to the facts and do a little if you can, but don’t overdo it. Sometimes, the other party has to realize you are not a sponge.
Ed
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pianistclare
Guest
The key is not to stop being nice.
It’s in not permitting yourself to be a doormat.
Big difference.
Selflessness is very attractive.
Arrogance? Not so much.
But that doesn’t mean we have to allow people to walk all over us.
We can break these cycles. If we stop being “nice” of Christian, or cordial, or giving, or kind or compassionate…that doesn’t accomplish anything positive.
That simply invites more drama. No one needs that.
It’s in not permitting yourself to be a doormat.
Big difference.
Selflessness is very attractive.
Arrogance? Not so much.
But that doesn’t mean we have to allow people to walk all over us.
We can break these cycles. If we stop being “nice” of Christian, or cordial, or giving, or kind or compassionate…that doesn’t accomplish anything positive.
That simply invites more drama. No one needs that.
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MarkInOregon
Guest
Altruism: Feelings and behavior that show a desire to help other people and a lack of selfishness. Unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others.
Did Christ put our needs above his?
“If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you…This I command you, to love one another.” John 15:10-14,17
“He who is greatest among you shall be your servant; whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.” Matthew 23:11-12
“If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life?” Matthew 16:24-26
Yes, happiness is our ultimate end–happiness in heaven for all eternity. How do we achieve that? Is it by trying to make ourselves happy here on earth at the expense of others? Is it chasing material goods and wealth and power? Where do we find true happiness? It takes a healthy love of self in order to love others as Christ calls us to love. It’s when we don’t love ourselves that we try to exalt ourselves and put our happiness above that of others. It is when we are trying to convince ourselves of our worth–that we believe putting someone else first somehow diminishes our worth or makes the other worth more than us. It is only when convinced of our own worth that we can truly put others first.
The peace of Christ,
Mark
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Autumn_Smoke
Guest
I don’t know if you have a specific situation in mind, but I sometimes think of Jesus himself–he was all giving…but there was one time when there was a family feud and he was asked to judge between two opposing factions, and instead of saying OK, he said, “Who made me your arbitrator?” (Luke 12:14)
We don’t really know the fullness of this incident, but it reminds me that we need to be smart in every situation and not let ourselves think that saying “no” to someone indicates that we’re not being nice. As other posters have said, we don’t have to be doormats.
We don’t really know the fullness of this incident, but it reminds me that we need to be smart in every situation and not let ourselves think that saying “no” to someone indicates that we’re not being nice. As other posters have said, we don’t have to be doormats.
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EasterJoy
Guest
If you read the articles on the links, the author is not really talking about being “nice.” He’s talking about being a self-betraying people-pleaser and probably an enabler, someone who will prefer avoiding possible conflict to telling the truth, and so on.Why on Earth would you want to stop being nice? Being nice is a blessing.
He is not talking about being an Ayn Rand imitator. He’s talking about giving up the kind of behavior that gets people into Al-Anon.
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